beltjones Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Ok, so the dipshit on Amazon who sold me the bad template replaced it with one he said was good, with correct center lines. So I did a simple test - if the center lines are true, then I should be able to lay out the template on a cross and outline it, and then flip it around and outline it again, and basically trace over the same line.Here is the original:Here is the replacement:And here is what I did today - I'm trying to do PRS-style recessed knobs, but I think I need to do it again with a slightly wider and deeper route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Ok, I made the recesses a little wider and deeper, and fixed a wee bit of off-centeredness in the middle position.Next I need to reduce the thickness of the top to about .300" in the control cavities. Right now it's about .5" in the control cavity and about .7" in the switch cavity. I can either use a forstner bit at each pot/switch position, or I can route the whole cavity down to the correct thickness.Using a forstner bit would be fast and easy, but routing the whole cavity would make for a little reduction in weight, which would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 19 hours ago, beltjones said: Ok, so the dipshit on Amazon who sold me the bad template replaced it with one he said was good, with correct center lines. So I did a simple test - if the center lines are true, then I should be able to lay out the template on a cross and outline it, and then flip it around and outline it again, and basically trace over the same line.Here is the original:Here is the replacement: .....SERIOUSLY?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 14 hours ago, beltjones said: Next I need to reduce the thickness of the top to about .300" in the control cavities. Right now it's about .5" in the control cavity and about .7" in the switch cavity. I can either use a forstner bit at each pot/switch position, or I can route the whole cavity down to the correct thickness. If you go down the latter path, just be sure that you've got enough meat underneath the top so that you don't accidentally punch through the bottom edge of the control cavity where the top has been carved down to meet the edge of the body. The last thing you want to do is have an unintentional ventilation slot in the front of the wenge underneath the controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 6 hours ago, curtisa said: If you go down the latter path, just be sure that you've got enough meat underneath the top so that you don't accidentally punch through the bottom edge of the control cavity where the top has been carved down to meet the edge of the body. The last thing you want to do is have an unintentional ventilation slot in the front of the wenge underneath the controls. That never occurred to me. I routed it last night and got lucky, apparently. I hope there isn't some paper-thin area, I'll have to check it thoroughly. I got lucky a second time as well. I couldn't route deep enough in the switch cavity, so I had to finish with the forstner bit. I've used forstner bits a bunch of times, and I even used one to hog out material from the pickup cavities, so I've used a forstner bit on wenge. Well, something about the grain pattern on the wood in the switch cavity made it so I applied almost no pressure but the bit dug in and pulled itself through the wood at an incredible rate. I released the trigger on the drill immediately but still drilled about 1/4" into the wood in about a half a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 That's a surprisingly-common thing with some bits. The geometry of some lip and spur drill bits that I have makes them very difficult to use by hand without experiencing self-feeding; the bit trying to screw itself into the wood rather than evacuating chips. Harder splintery woods like Wengé and white Oak are very prone to this, so I find they're better with light pecks and withdrawing the quill. Firstly it lets waste evacuate through the escapement in Forstner bits and through the flutes of lip and spur bits. It also reduces burning. Self-feeding is when the pressure required to advance the bit in the wood exceeds that of the waste being evacuated. Imagine a wood screw where the threads being cut into the wood prevent the screw pulling straight back out. That's what's happening here. A harder downpressure in the cut creates waste that is more difficult to evacuate normally, which adds to that forward motion and compounds the issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 Not much progress today, just reamed the holes for the switch and pots and applied the first application of the wood bleach. The instructions on the bleach say to let it stand overnight to dry, which I'm going to interpret as 12 hours of drying time between applications. I'll do another application tomorrow morning and possibly a third tomorrow night. Once I'm finished with the bleaching process I'm supposed to neutralize the chemicals with some vinegar diluted with water. Once that's dry, probably Sunday morning, I'm going to glue the fretboard to the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 Coat one of bleach is dried, and coat two is applied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 I confess, I've never actually seen the bleaching process demonstrated. This is fascinating. What are you aiming for for the final result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 Here it is a few hours after the second coat of bleach. If I had in mind the final result when I started this, a: I think I'd be done by now, and b: it would be less '70s orange / brown themed. What I'm actually doing is coming up with ideas as I progress through the build and implementing them if it's not too late, without much forethought as to how it will impact the final result. It's a miracle this thing doesn't have a few f holes and a b bender. I'm not sure where I got the idea to bleach it, but it either came from a youtube video recommendation ("You might like this video featuring this dude bleaching this piece of wood"), or I stole the idea from one of y'all while scrolling through the mountains of threads that have accumulated on this forum over the years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 I'll admit I was a bit 'uh-oh' when I saw the first coat of bleach applied, with the wenge grain completely blacked out, but after it's dried it now looks the part. The darker streaks don't appear to react to the bleach much, but the paler streaks get lightened quite a bit, which amplifies the contrast in the grain patterns. Keep your scrap offcuts of the wenge to test your finishes with. From what I've seen, wenge tends to become a dark, murky mess under the wrong finishes. It'd be a real kicker if whatever finish you applied to that top undid the work the bleach has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 This is after beaching round #2.And this is how it looks wetted for bleaching round #3.Tomorrow I'll neutralize the bleach with a solution of vinegar and water, and probably glue up the fretboard Monday morning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 That's worked well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Fantastic. I'm happy that you took the plunge and have gotten such amazing results from the bleach. This is certainly one of the more unique uses of Wengé I've seen in a long time. The contrast between the early and latewood is so easily lost when clearing or oiling, so this is going to be bold as hell. Thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 12 hours ago, curtisa said: I'll admit I was a bit 'uh-oh' when I saw the first coat of bleach applied, with the wenge grain completely blacked out, but after it's dried it now looks the part. The darker streaks don't appear to react to the bleach much, but the paler streaks get lightened quite a bit, which amplifies the contrast in the grain patterns. Keep your scrap offcuts of the wenge to test your finishes with. From what I've seen, wenge tends to become a dark, murky mess under the wrong finishes. It'd be a real kicker if whatever finish you applied to that top undid the work the bleach has done. Good call on testing on scrap. I already did that before I glued the top, so we should be ok. Still plenty of chances left for me to ruin this whole thing, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Not a huge difference after bleaching round 3. Here it is after applying a solution of two parts water, one part vinegar, in order to neutralize any bleach remaining on the wood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Yeah, it seems to have bottomed out alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 7 hours ago, beltjones said: Not a huge difference after bleaching round 3. Here it is after applying a solution of two parts water, one part vinegar, in order to neutralize any bleach remaining on the wood. Wow! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 The clamps are off. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 That is sooo different... and in a very good way. Bit of an eye-opener. What made you go for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: That is sooo different... and in a very good way. Bit of an eye-opener. What made you go for it? Do you mean what made me choose those woods? Here in Houston there are a couple of awesome hardwood purveyors. One is about about two miles from my house and they have an incredible selection, but there are no prices marked on anything and you pick a small, mediocre piece of, say, purpleheart and bring it to the owner for pricing and he punches numbers into a ten-key for about 5 minutes and comes back with "That will be $150." The other place has a slightly worse selection, but they have a shorts and off-cuts section where everything is marked with a price. I bought a 4 foot piece of amazing curly maple for $10.50 the other day. So I basically went to the cheaper place a few times and scavenged the shorts section, where sometimes it's pretty empty, and other times they have interesting stuff. In other words, I used a time-honored approach to choosing materials for this guitar: I went with whatever was cheap and available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, beltjones said: Do you mean what made me choose those woods? Here in Houston there are a couple of awesome hardwood purveyors. One is about about two miles from my house and they have an incredible selection, but there are no prices marked on anything and you pick a small, mediocre piece of, say, purpleheart and bring it to the owner for pricing and he punches numbers into a ten-key for about 5 minutes and comes back with "That will be $150." The other place has a slightly worse selection, but they have a shorts and off-cuts section where everything is marked with a price. I bought a 4 foot piece of amazing curly maple for $10.50 the other day. So I basically went to the cheaper place a few times and scavenged the shorts section, where sometimes it's pretty empty, and other times they have interesting stuff. In other words, I used a time-honored approach to choosing materials for this guitar: I went with whatever was cheap and available. I was thinking more what inspired you to bleach the Wenge? I would have never thought of doing that in a thousand years but that has come out so well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Oh, lol. Gotcha. I don't remember where I got the idea for the bleach - it was either on page 200 of this forum while I was going deep, studying everyone's builds, or it was a suggestion for a video to watch on youtube because all I've been watching lately is wordworking stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 It gets like that, doesn't it? haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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