32" scale p bass "the picalow"

[curtisa]

11 hours ago, mistermikev said:

as mentioned... it's the drilling that is a little ruff especially when you are staring at a 220 hole chorus!  I use a dremel with a foot switch and a gooseneck... keep a knife sharpener handy.  I've found that if you switch bits every 30 holes and keep them sharp it goes pretty fast. 

All the more reason to have the boards made up for you. I found that provided you spent the time during the board design stage, you'd iron out 95% of the bugs in the circuit before committing to the fab house. Even if there still a couple of errors, they were nothing that couldn't be fixed with some minor PCB surgery and wire jumpers, and you still ended up with a better looking and better made product than you could achieve doing self-etching and drilling at home.

Good riddance to Press 'n Peel, I say. The number of sheets I wasted trying to find the right laser printer, printer settings, iron settings, pressure required, time of transfer, and then dealing with the etching and chemicals, drilling...  

 

[mistermikev]

2 hours ago, curtisa said:

All the more reason to have the boards made up for you. I found that provided you spent the time during the board design stage, you'd iron out 95% of the bugs in the circuit before committing to the fab house. Even if there still a couple of errors, they were nothing that couldn't be fixed with some minor PCB surgery and wire jumpers, and you still ended up with a better looking and better made product than you could achieve doing self-etching and drilling at home.

Good riddance to Press 'n Peel, I say. The number of sheets I wasted trying to find the right laser printer, printer settings, iron settings, pressure required, time of transfer, and then dealing with the etching and chemicals, drilling...  

 

all great advice... it's not so much that I have issues with bugs but more I don't re-build the same thing a lot... always finding new circuits to try.

afa quality, I'll admit: fab looks nicer. 

I've worked on old fx with razor thin copper w/o issue so I'd say I'm decent at desoldering.  That said recently I struggled my arse off to desolder and remove a header that I installed upside down on a fabed board.  had to wait a week to get a new board. 

iow I think there are pitfalls either way you go...or perhaps I'm just old and stuck in my ways! (yeah that's probably more likely)

[Prostheta]

Well, I'm absolutely glad that we don't need to use tape and hand-drawn masking for UV photoresist any more! I could never afford the UV box when I was a kid (probably for the best) so only did my first when I got to college and could use theirs. If I desperately have to prototype something these days, I use a similar approach to that press n' peel (never used it) by printing in mirror on either glossy magazine paper or the backing from a sticker sheet (usually jams up) through my laser. The rest is the same; iron on, mask missing areas with a Sharpie and etch away. Still, drilling. Brrrr

[mistermikev]

6 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Well, I'm absolutely glad that we don't need to use tape and hand-drawn masking for UV photoresist any more! I could never afford the UV box when I was a kid (probably for the best) so only did my first when I got to college and could use theirs. If I desperately have to prototype something these days, I use a similar approach to that press n' peel (never used it) by printing in mirror on either glossy magazine paper or the backing from a sticker sheet (usually jams up) through my laser. The rest is the same; iron on, mask missing areas with a Sharpie and etch away. Still, drilling. Brrrr

never done that myself but I've seen some layouts that just look pretty that way.  All those curvy lines!  Cudos to those who dare.

this mornin' I whipped this up.  This is my wiring plan for this bass.  A 4p3T plus a les paul toggle.  3 modes...  each with 3 possibilities (that's 9 combinations).  Was going to go with a 4p6T from stew mac and do a number of other combos but don't want to buy anything else from stew right now and have a number of 4P3T lying round so...

Uses two humbuckers with the same winding and polarity ala PRS style.

 

[Prostheta]

Very nice switching possibilities! I think a three-position rotary is better anyway so you're never having two switch through "neighbours" in the switch to get to your destination mode. The bummer is when you have to switch both that AND the toggle. Still, I love it.

[mistermikev]

7 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Very nice switching possibilities! I think a three-position rotary is better anyway so you're never having two switch through "neighbours" in the switch to get to your destination mode. The bummer is when you have to switch both that AND the toggle. Still, I love it.

thank you sir.  I probably would have been happier with a 4p4t... oh crap why did I think that... now I'm going to have to dig through my bag of rotary switches!

[mistermikev]

so... I come to you know for help/advice...

this build was going along swimingly but now really struggling with frets.

I got my fretwire coiled up in appox a 10" coil from the vendor.  I figured - no need to build a bender. 

I got my fretboard pre-slotted and radiused.  I did do some sanding on it to bring down my fret markers after cutting them off(120-220) - but not a lot... and I was paying attention to try to stay 80+% on the markers and not the fretboard.  I also sanded from approx 220-3k for finishing purposes.

I put super glue on the fret, placed it and started tapping on one end with my rubber mallet.  To my horror - the center was not flush.  Couldn't get it flush.  the glue was still wet... so that's not the issue. 

Panic!  Thought "well I'd better pull it before the glue sets"... and pulled out a good divot along with it.  doh!

 

 

so... in your experience, if you had to pick one thing, was the problem more likely improper fret bend (bent too much) or improper slot depth? 

if it is a problem with improper fret radius on the frets... it would seem it's bent too far... so would a diy fret bender 'un-bend' my fretwire?  seems unlikely. 

should I buy pre-radiused fret wire?  anyone use?

 

fretwire you are a worthy adversary... I am humbled.

[curtisa]

21 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

so... in your experience, if you had to pick one thing, was the problem more likely improper fret bend (bent too much) or improper slot depth? 

Improper slot depth or obstructions in the slot preventing the fret seating properly in the middle would be my guess.

Over-bending the fretwire is actually preferable. The action of hammering/pressing over-radiused fretwire in  the middle provides extra wedging action for the barbs at the ends to bite into the wood. The barbs in the middle are pushed down vertically, and the barbs at either end of the fret are simultaneously pushed away from the middle as the fretwire radius gets gradually flattened out to match the radius of the fretboard, thus helping the fret ends lock in tighter to the slot.

 

25 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

should I buy pre-radiused fret wire?  anyone use?

Only if the radius you are buying for is smaller than the radius of the board you are fitting them to, or only if you are buying stainless steel fretwire, in which case the radius of the wire must match the radius of the fretboard (SS wire is much stiffer and will tend to spring back out if the middle is forced into a flatter radius slot than its pre-bent shape).

[mistermikev]

thank you sir.  I had used a can of air to blow out, and thick razor blade to check for sawdust and other in the slot before install. So I guess the slot probably was just a hair shallow.  Will have to check actual depth and snag a fret saw.

any opinions on LMII fretsaw vs stew mac?

[Prostheta]

I agree with @curtisa on the points made. For my own part, I prefer to buy coils of fretwire, however this is always a big investment and not always possible for everybody. Buying pre-cut radiused pieces is an option, however if they radius in the pieces is too small for your needs then it's not easy to bend it into a correct one. The same applies to those straight ~8"-12" sticks. You can mostly put them through a fret bender, but the losses are high.

Both fretsaws are made by Flinn & Garlick in Sheffield, UK. They are functionally identical. If you're buying from StewMac, consider a fret slot cleaning tool. Very useful if you do a lot of blind slots on fingerboards and basic spot cleaning.

[FINEFUZZ]

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

I agree with @curtisa on the points made. For my own part, I prefer to buy coils of fretwire, however this is always a big investment and not always possible for everybody. Buying pre-cut radiused pieces is an option, however if they radius in the pieces is too small for your needs then it's not easy to bend it into a correct one. The same applies to those straight ~8"-12" sticks. You can mostly put them through a fret bender, but the losses are high.

Both fretsaws are made by Flinn & Garlick in Sheffield, UK. They are functionally identical. If you're buying from StewMac, consider a fret slot cleaning tool. Very useful if you do a lot of blind slots on fingerboards and basic spot cleaning.

I can empathize with mistermikev as I am green on this subject as well. 

I purchased the stainless "straight ~8"-12" sticks" from StewMac, but I though I read that they didn't require pre-radiusing.  This conversation shows I need to give this process some more preparation. 

[Prostheta]

The longer stuff in the tubes from SM needs radiusing. Especially SS, because it's super springy!

[mistermikev]

thanks gentlemen for the replies and commiseration.

I will have to snag a fret saw asap.  (hangs his head)

Do y'all use a mallet or a press?  I've seen a few tutorials on building a press caul and also I've seen you can buy one with inserts for approx $50.  also had some ideas about 10" pvc pipe and chopping out a couple of pieces and gluing to a bar bolt or something.

Not sure it would have helped anything here but just wondering if it is "a better way"?

[Prostheta]

"A better way" is whatever works best for you. I alternate between hammering frets and pressing, mostly depending on what tools I have easily available at any one time. I use a dual-face hammer for my frets, one side PVC (soft, non-marking) and nylon on the other. I've had one of these handy for maybe 16yrs now. The same hammer.

https://www.thorhammer.com/hammers/nylon/31-710r.html

FWIW, I use because of weight. 370g is about 13oz. I've never bothered with brass hammers. In my case, "the better way" is the simplest. I use what I have the most experience and muscle memory with. If you have a drill press that will manage pressing of frets (not all will) then go for it. I don't.

[ScottR]

I use a similar hammer--albeit not so fancy looking, and and a roughly 5" long piece of aluminum bar stock. The aluminum doesn't mar the frets and I can slide it across the tops of previously inserted frets as I'm tapping in the new one. It gives me a bigger target for the hammer and makes it less likely that I will mar the board.

SR

[Prostheta]

The one on the left is my old girl. There's one size smaller, but smaller isn't useful. Ever. The one on the right is a monster 1,23kg or 2,7lbs. I use it for dislodging bears from the fence.

[mistermikev]

thank you gentlemen.  I very much appreciate the advice.  I was using a simple home-depot special with one side plastic and the other rubber - nothing like your fancy hammer collection!

thank you again for the input.  building up the courage to go back at this!

[ScottR]

19 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

I was using a simple home-depot special with one side plastic and the other rubber

Yep, that's the one I have. I've even use a wooden mallet on a couple of builds.

SR

[mistermikev]

here's what happened in my head when I read that: "my specialty fret hammer has been ordained by none other than scottr"!  hehe

I was using the rubber end.  It should be nuff to push a fret in... I mean it did push in the ends... there was just about a heavy 32nd a half in long - in the middle - that just would not sit in there.  Here's what I've learned: you can't put in frets w/o a fret saw.

thanks again guys - I am in your debit (hehe).

[Prostheta]

Well that's all you need. I don't see the use in expensive single end-use hammers such as fret hammers. My assembly hammers have replacement faces available, and I'm still using the original faces on my smallest. The clean face on the new hammer will be used for frets rather than the scarred one though. The white nylon face is better than the PVC face though, or at least, I've never fretted with the PVC side. I suspect too much of the force would be lost in the conformity of the material (as heat, physics fans) than transferred to the fret.

[mistermikev]

I used the plastic end on mine once before... and didn't have an issue but it just seems like it could mar the wood at any moment if you hit it with an edge.  Think the rubber should do it... or like mentioned the plastic with a block.  Think I'll try that next attempt.

thanks again for the responses!

[Andyjr1515]

Everyone has their own method. 

Mine is a combination of hammer and clamp.  I pop a tiny bead of titebond along the tangs, I then hammer the pre bent wire one side, then the other side, then the middle.  Next, I clamp a radius block over the hammered fret while I' m preparing the next one.  I repeat and move the radius block up one fret.  By the time the radius block no longer is clamping the earlier fixed frets, they will have been clamped for 15 -20 minutes, usually plenty of time for the glue to be holding them in place.

[mistermikev]

that is a great tip.  I like the idea of super glue as opposed to wood glue... I'm not sure why.  I plan to tape up my frets when I next attempt to prevent getting glue on my fretboard.  I think I will use a block to hold them in place, and another block to hammer them in. 

thanks for the tips gentlemen!

[Andyjr1515]

8 hours ago, mistermikev said:

  I think I will use a block to hold them in place, and another block to hammer them in. 

 

I personally had difficulties when I tried that.  With a block, it's very difficult to hammer square on and often I found that the fret had sometimes twisted out of position slightly, damaging the slot.  

[Prostheta]

Hammering frets is easy. If you're worried about marring the fingerboard, put a piece of masking tape either side. Bevel your fret slot with two licks of a file, place the fret in and tap each end home with 2-3 light blows. For the second end I put my finger on the other (located) side to prevent it springing up. Using something that you can't control - like a block - or worse, something that blocks visibility. Yeah. Get some practice in on scrap if you're not confident. The fewer tools and accoutrements that you can use, the better. Fretting isn't as much of an esoteric art as the tool sellers might have you think.