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ScottR

Singlecut: Domestic--not domesticated!

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Chain link doesn't look like it is a natural expression of tree growth since it runs contrary to the growth rings and any other aspects of the wood. Now that's a puzzle and a half. It's not angel step figuring as that shows correlation through compression.

Right, I'm off to a cabin for four days to decompress. Don't mess it up whilst I'm AFK!

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Thanks.

I have never heard of Titebond as a pore filler either. But it certainly has done a fine job of filling pores that I didn't intend to fill at times. I 'll follow this experiment through with clear coat and report back on how it works out.

SR

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Gorgeous. Your level of patience astounds me, it's nice that you are using for good and not evil. 

The real question of the Titebond may be age and shrinkage? I tried straight up epoxy as a filler / finish which worked great for a couple years until some moisture got underneath(?) and milked it. It was on a wenge chessboard and I don't think the bottom was finished, but I didn't expect that.

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12 hours ago, komodo said:

The real question of the Titebond may be age and shrinkage?

Agreed. I have seen swelling and shrinkage both, but less so under a finish. I've seen the same with epoxy. Titebond turns an ugly yellow with age, but I'm thinking the dye may help combat that. Time will tell. I am surely tired of pore fillers that do not stay in all the pores... or sink forever.

SR

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I hear ya. I'm also trying to formulate a plan for this tele thing and pores are an issue.

What about straight up shellac?

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I used that once and it did work. I wiped on a coat and let it dry, then rubbed it with a pad soaked in alcohol with the intention of forcing the the remelted slurry into the pores. I then leveled that with fine sandpaper and left the dust in the pores. Then another layer of shellac which remelts the shellac dust in the pores, then another wipe with alcohol.....rinse and repeat until the pores are filled. It was almost like a French polish. It was fairly labor intensive and took a while, and pores would occasionally open back up, so it was not frustration free. But it did work and ultimately left a very nice surface to lay a finish over. @Prostheta has spoken of a similar method using fine pumice with shellac prepping for a French polish, that he said filled pores nicely.  Maybe I'll try that on the other three sides of my chunk of ash.

SR

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I know the pumice filling is a very old technique used by classical guitar builders.
I'm also wondering about straight sanding sealer as it's a high build?  There's also CA as filler but you have to be careful as it's harder than the wood. Great on ebony, bad on limba.

There's also Aqua Coat which I've never tried but people like it.

 

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I've tried sanding sealer on some balsa wood rockets and it worked like a champ. Then I tried it on mahogany and never got it to quit sinking into the pores. That may have been the brand or my desire to fill only the pores and not cover the surface of the raw wood.  CA is tricky and harsh to use and can unevenly stain your wood if you are not careful. Done correctly it does a fine job. My least problematic was Z-Poxy when I left a thin layer covering the surface. That still took significant time and a lot of thin applications. @Andyjr1515 once did an acoustic with egg whites. He said it worked well....but I haven't seen him do it again.:)

SR

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17 minutes ago, Splintazert said:

"AndyJR1515 once did an acoustic with egg whites"

Was that for playing Merengue guitar on? 😁

<_<:killinme

SR

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Pumice pre-dates sandpaper, which goes a long way towards understanding the sanding and finishing schedules of old makers. The whole shellac-and-pumice grain filling thing is that the light shellac (mostly alcohol) cut is enough to bind up the abraded fibres in a slurry along with the abrasive (pumice). Egg white is a tangle of protein chains that act more or less in the same manner as a binder. The point being that you have a material-friendly fill that is given a high surface tension within the pores. Shellac forms a film over the entire surface that is compatible with virtually anything whilst egg is neutral enough when dry to be like the wood itself.

I like the shellac and pumice approach to grain filling myself, however I should really invest in some better quality material for the rubbers (linen) rather than old t-shirts. This likely has more to do with how French polishing with shellac pulls down my tendencies to rush ahead, as you just can't do that with shellac.

Sanding sealer was designed for lacquer as far as I am aware. I've never found a calling for it as a "missing" product in any processes I've done or been taught about, and see it as a convenience rather than a necessity. Albeit one that I still have much confusion about, since I'm not 100% sure where it's rightful place exists....or if it in fact is just a shortcut of sorts. Fill me in guys.

I'm surprised that it kept sinking into pores, @ScottR; isn't that the complete opposite of what it's supposed to do? I know that it isn't a grain filler however it should reduce or eliminate the tendency of wood to suck product in. Shellac and pumice have done that admirably for me under straight shellac, acrylic, 1K and 2K paints. Again, this sort of makes me wonder where it has a place.

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The egg white was another 'classical guitar builders used to' product.  I reckon traditional classical guitar builders have a lot to answer for :lol:

It was OK, I suppose, but it was probably only used by some guy in a remote Spanish village centuries ago because the only things readily available for anything were chickens.  I'm told beaks make great picks, by the way.  Must try it sometime...

  • Haha 2

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🤪😂

We've often known what works for a long long time, but it's only recently that we've started to be able to truly engineer products for very specific end uses. Even then, they often take a lot of inspiration or parallel how the old school stuff works. Albumen has been used to makes adhesives and all manner of useful products including grain fillers. The proteins in albumen start as short tangled lengths which untangle as they denature and then crosslink like a polymer, "binding" products like sawdust into pores and locking them down. The principle of most grain fillers is similar, take a filler and bind it up in pores. Personally, I love traditional methods and seeing behind the curtain as to how they really work and wondering whether the old masters knew this also, or were simply following generations of experience and "blind refinement". To me it's not enough knowing that something works, it's the why that I get the most enjoyment from. You can build on that type of knowledge.

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Spraying tints is done in the opposite order of dying and sanding back.

First up is an amber base.

C01514.jpg

Then add some orange to the amber. From here on in everything is sprayed heavier around the edges and lighter in the center to build up the burst.

C01517.jpg

More orange, less amber.

C01519.jpg

Add some burgundy to that.

C01521.jpg

Add some more burgundy and a touch of blue to darken that up. This is just for the edges. Last two pics taken in a bit different lighting.

C01523.jpgC01525.jpg

SR

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Straight up black to burst the back.

C01526.jpg

Between coats of lacquer I sanded off the titebond experimental pore filler. I'd say 90% of the pores stayed filled.

C01537.jpgC01538.jpg

I mixed up a thinner batch and re-applied it. Then sanded that out with 400 and went on a polished it up.

C01542.jpg

I've applied a couple of coats of Tru-oil and will continue that and then level and polish it and watch to see how more pores sink afterwards.

In the meantime I finished shooting clear. I've done zero finish work to that but wanted to get it out in the sun and see how it looks.

C01545.jpgC01546.jpg

SR

 

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1 hour ago, beltjones said:

That looks amazing.

Thank you kind sir.

I am rather pleased with it so far myself.:)

SR

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Damn. Now I’m going to strip the dragon guitar down to wood and try to do that.

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Again, tremendously detailed run through of your technique, @ScottR  Very generous and much appreciated :)

And what results!

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10 hours ago, komodo said:

Damn. Now I’m going to strip the dragon guitar down to wood and try to do that.

Never! That is an amazing guitar.

You are just going to have to build a new one.:)

SR

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6 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Again, tremendously detailed run through of your technique, @ScottR  Very generous and much appreciated :)

And what results!

You're welcome and thanks, Andy!

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I've never liked it when I've seen people do irregulated (my word) rear covers, just my personal opinion.

I always looked at it as cheating or taking the easy way out.

Basically lameness charading as coolness.

But it always looks cheesy and fake and trying too hard to be cool to me.

I always cut the piece (rear cover) out first, save it, shape it, and then bring it back in at the end.

I always liked that look and forethought.

But you sir, have taken rear covers to HIGH ART status.

The back of that guitar says a million times more about your artistic abilities than the front.

And the front is kickin' it.

But the back is MONSTER.

Layers upon layers of talent, forethought, planning, and multidimensional talent in that back.

Wow...just wow.

 

Oh, PS, hello.

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