"Delta Cloud' - all done!

[mistermikev]

not sure if you mean mine or quarters... if mine: thank you.  If quarter: couldn't agree more!

[2.5itim]

That is looking fantastic!

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, 2.5itim said:

That is looking fantastic!

thank you very much!

[ShatnersBassoon]

On 11/13/2018 at 10:27 AM, mistermikev said:

not sure if you mean mine or quarters... if mine: thank you.  If quarter: couldn't agree more!

I couldn't find Quarters, probably me being dense. Seriously, really impressive Mr Mister!

[mistermikev]

5 hours ago, ShatnersBassoon said:

I couldn't find Quarters, probably me being dense. Seriously, really impressive Mr Mister!

oh, well thank you - on page2 we were talking about a true oil ninja named 'quarters'.  there is a link to one of his threads and he makes amazing stuff.  Since you responded right after, wasn't sure if you meant his work or mine. 

 

I've been having some success by following all the good advice.  I'm doing really light coats and wet sanding every 2-3 coats with 1k/2k paper.  not exactly going fast... but I can see I'm making some progress.  thanks to mrnat and scottr for the advice!  I figure I'll be done sometime in the next 5-10 years!  jk.  still have assembly, electronics, and fret-level/dress to do so... will update asap!

[Mr Natural]

being builder is def an exercise in patience. 

one product that recently came out that I am hoping to try in the near future is solarex for guitars. solarex if you dont know was originally formulated for surfboards- it cures by exposure to sun. You can put on a coat- flow it out- expose it and be sanding it and buffing it all in one day- however- sanding it is like sanding glass. very hard stuff- apparently the new stuff for guitars is a bit more forgiving in the sanding department formulation. fwiw

[komodo]

one word of warning on Truoil - I had a small 19" scale guitar that I did in korina with a Truoil only finish. It was beautiful, but sat for a while with a coiled guitar cord leaning against the body. The cord melted into the finish! I had to pull it off, and sand and buff the hell out of the Truoil to get that area to look relatively normal again. Mind you, this was WELL after the guitar was done and the finish cured.

[ScottR]

It can be surprising the kinds of things that can react negatively with finishes. I was polishing the nitro finish on a mandolin I was building one summer. I'm in Houston, so summertime means shorts. Summertime in Houston also means squadrons of well trained terroristic skeeter bugs. As I was finishing up I noticed an area on the mando where the finish had softened and pushed around into humps and bumps. And it turned out to be where the it rested against my bare leg....which had been sprayed with skeeter bug spray, because I like to keep my blood for myself. Apparently the deet, or some ingredient anyway, makes a pretty good lacquer solvent.

SR

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, Mr Natural said:

being builder is def an exercise in patience. 

one product that recently came out that I am hoping to try in the near future is solarex for guitars. solarex if you dont know was originally formulated for surfboards- it cures by exposure to sun. You can put on a coat- flow it out- expose it and be sanding it and buffing it all in one day- however- sanding it is like sanding glass. very hard stuff- apparently the new stuff for guitars is a bit more forgiving in the sanding department formulation. fwiw

 

sounds like some interesting stuff.  will have to learn more about that... is it wipe on?

 

50 minutes ago, komodo said:

one word of warning on Truoil - I had a small 19" scale guitar that I did in korina with a Truoil only finish. It was beautiful, but sat for a while with a coiled guitar cord leaning against the body. The cord melted into the finish! I had to pull it off, and sand and buff the hell out of the Truoil to get that area to look relatively normal again. Mind you, this was WELL after the guitar was done and the finish cured.

 

29 minutes ago, ScottR said:

It can be surprising the kinds of things that can react negatively with finishes. I was polishing the nitro finish on a mandolin I was building one summer. I'm in Houston, so summertime means shorts. Summertime in Houston also means squadrons of well trained terroristic skeeter bugs. As I was finishing up I noticed an area on the mando where the finish had softened and pushed around into humps and bumps. And it turned out to be where the it rested against my bare leg....which had been sprayed with skeeter bug spray, because I like to keep my blood for myself. Apparently the deet, or some ingredient anyway, makes a pretty good lacquer solvent.

SR

if not those risks, then the risk of reaction to dye, heat, cold... finishing is such a pain. 

[ScottR]

15 hours ago, mistermikev said:

finishing is such a pain.

I enjoy it. It can surely make or break the way you build looks.

SR

[mistermikev]

2 hours ago, ScottR said:

I enjoy it. It can surely make or break the way you build looks.

SR

probably says a lot about your vs my skill.  I've gotten some good finishes with poly - but that is easier ime.  tru oil is a whole 'nuther discipline.  someday I'll get there!

[mistermikev]

so... tonight I'm with heavy heart.  I have been working on this finish for quite a while and every time I think I'm done and start to try to buff it... (just buffing with light compound) I get these dull spots.  80% of the finish looks great.  The dull spots just will not shine up.  They are all following the grain in places that were at one point "high spots".  If I wet sand with 1k they disapear and it looks like I've got plenty of finish everywhere.  Over and over - same result.

I was reading a thread on tdpri and was looking for feedback on its accuracy from "the tru oil gods" here at projgtr:

Quote

I've had this same problem. Where it really becomes a problem is when you build up new surface film and the flat spots still remain.
I have a theory about this. When you start applying the TO, you do get a little penetration into the pores/structure of the wood. This alters the physical characteristics of the wood - basically locks the fibers together. From that point on the penetrated wood will demonstrate a different effect from sanding/polishing than the raw wood.
If you continue on, building film thickness, levelling, polishing, etc and never again make abrasive contact with the surface of the wood you will not have a problem.
Conversely, if you do sand/polish down to the actual wood, but do so evenly and everywhere, you also do not have a problem.
The problem occurs when you contact the wood in only a few spots. When you do that those areas sand/polish to a different effect - and because the effect is in the wood it will remain no matter what you put on top of it.
The only reliable solution I've found is to sand/strip everything down to bare or near bare and start over again. Try to spot sand it down to bare wood and all you'll do is make a ring at the transition zone.

I don't want to sand it down to the bare wood as I'm really happy with how the dye turned out and will not risk screwing that up.  I am thinking that tomorrow I'm going to wet sand it back down, and shoot some poly. 

I guess I'm thinking that the next time I need to really build up the to before doing any sanding and ensure I have enough there to not cause this again (yes, even at this point I haven't given up entirely on someday getting a good gloss using tru oil!)  Would love any/all feedback and perhaps even condolences at this point!

[Andyjr1515]

Certainly commiserations, @mistermikev !  

In all aspects of all the builds I have done, gloss finishing is my bette noire.  Amongst the various methods and finish types of non-spray finishes, tru-oil gloss is, to me, one of the most difficult.  It is why I am always agog and full of admiration of @ScottR 's results.

I'm not one to give advice here but for tru oil, 3000 grit with a compound strikes me as probably much too harsh.  I note that Scott uses micromesh cloth running up to 12000 grit (which is basically the same material that ladies use to buff their nails).  And I'm not sure he uses a compound.  Also, particularly with tru-oil, I found that the hardening time before any polishing starts is critical.

Personally, I would hold fire before resorting to polyurethane - which actually has VERY similar issues and obstacles - and maybe hone in with the experts around us to the - probably small - tweaks in your technique to get the tru-oil finish you are after.

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Certainly commiserations, @mistermikev !  

In all aspects of all the builds I have done, gloss finishing is my bette noire.  Amongst the various methods and finish types of non-spray finishes, tru-oil gloss is, to me, one of the most difficult.  It is why I am always agog and full of admiration of @ScottR 's results.

I'm not one to give advice here but for tru oil, 3000 grit with a compound strikes me as probably much too harsh.  I note that Scott uses micromesh cloth running up to 12000 grit (which is basically the same material that ladies use to buff their nails).  And I'm not sure he uses a compound.  Also, particularly with tru-oil, I found that the hardening time before any polishing starts is critical.

Personally, I would hold fire before resorting to polyurethane - which actually has VERY similar issues and obstacles - and maybe hone in with the experts around us to the - probably small - tweaks in your technique to get the tru-oil finish you are after.

I very much appreciate your reply Andy!  I will take yer advice and hold off for a minute. 

for the record - the final coat - all I used was a microfibre cloth and turtlewax light compound -no sand paper at all- buffing by hand for no more than 15-30 seconds.  the most recent coats were very thin as I'm wiping off the finish right after applying... so it could be burn thru - just do not have confidence.  admittedly, I did NOT give it ample time to harden.  Still when I have wet sanded back... it really looks to me like there is a good layer of gloss on the entire thing and the 'dull' spots disappear. 

[ScottR]

I suspect that your dull areas are actually burn through. I have never had a problem re-coating areas  and getting a gloss where I've sanded through. You can get a high gloss on bare wood with super fine grits like 3000 and then have those areas go dull with compound. The abrasive in compound is free floating in solution and some with remain in the pores/fiber of the bare wood and leave it looking matte. And if you are repairing the burn through areas  with a thin layer of oil and wiping it off quickly you are likely not getting any build up at all...which makes another burn through in the same spot too easy to do.

My only secret for tru-oil is to get a very thick layer on before leveling. Two or three times what you want the final thickness to be. It shrinks a lot, so without touching it, it the thickness will reduce closer to the final desired thickness. And as Andy says, its initial hardness is much softer than the hardness it achieves after the shrinking stops. It feels hard and takes a fine polish but more is being removed during that polishing than you think..

SR

[mistermikev]

2 hours ago, ScottR said:

I suspect that your dull areas are actually burn through. I have never had a problem re-coating areas  and getting a gloss where I've sanded through. You can get a high gloss on bare wood with super fine grits like 3000 and then have those areas go dull with compound. The abrasive in compound is free floating in solution and some with remain in the pores/fiber of the bare wood and leave it looking matte. And if you are repairing the burn through areas  with a thin layer of oil and wiping it off quickly you are likely not getting any build up at all...which makes another burn through in the same spot too easy to do.

My only secret for tru-oil is to get a very thick layer on before leveling. Two or three times what you want the final thickness to be. It shrinks a lot, so without touching it, it the thickness will reduce closer to the final desired thickness. And as Andy says, its initial hardness is much softer than the hardness it achieves after the shrinking stops. It feels hard and takes a fine polish but more is being removed during that polishing than you think..

SR

Roger that.  your advice is like gold so... I will switch to 3k for buffing and try building it up for another week and give it a couple days to cure this time.

update: forgot to hit reply... I tested your advice just now and with some 3k then 5k it looks like it is gone.  You have learned me sir... and that is no easy feat.  I bow to your awesomeness!

[mistermikev]

update: all done!

update 12/15/18 ======================================================DONE!

[Andyjr1515]

Absolutely beautiful job! 

I bet you are super pleased with it

[mistermikev]

thank you andyjr1515 - that means a lot.  I'm pretty pleased, couldn't have done it without help from this community!

[Mr Natural]

great job man. I must have missed it before- but I must say the part I like most about this guitar- is the headstock logo. Very nice design there. I cant tell from my crappy PC monitor- is that shell or light maple. looks to be shell but I cant tell from my pc.  Your guitar building is on a very steep incline Mike- keep up the good work. 

[mistermikev]

thank you sir!  I'm gonna chalk the binding up to the year I spent putting plastic edge banding on table tops in high school!  Turns out it's pretty similar to that.  That headstock logo is mop.  Not sure if it is obvious, but it's my initials MV.  I bought some cheap mop pendants and this was my first attempt at making my own inlay.  Learned a lesson that I should flat sand the back (how I got the cracks).  Lots of lessons learned here!

[ScottR]

Beautiful work Mike!

The color is fantastic. It still reminds me of shallow water just off a white sand Caribbean beach.

Do you like the way it sounds?

SR

[mistermikev]

thank you sir!  Yes I love how it sounds.  not sure if you saw my video (top image) but - on the one hand I got the polarity wrong between the two sets of humbuckers, so in any combo that uses pickups from the opposing set it hums like a single coil... but it sounds really good/funky so debating whether I'll correct or not.  Sounds good, plays good, learned a lot - couldn't have hoped for more!

[Andyjr1515]

I'd missed the video somehow.  Sounds great - but I see what you mean about the buzzing!  If it is just the polarity, clearly an easy fix.

But sounds great and looks lovely and great playing too!

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I'd missed the video somehow.  Sounds great - but I see what you mean about the buzzing!  If it is just the polarity, clearly an easy fix.

But sounds great and looks lovely and great playing too!

well, given this will be for low/mid gain stuff I'm thinking of leaving it.  I could easily swap the wires but I really love the out of phase spank.  plus there are 2 modes that are perfectly quiet so... we'll see!  thank you for listening - I do appreciate!