Finished pics! A Bitsa Dreadnought for me :)

[Andyjr1515]

41 minutes ago, curtisa said:

[Andyjr1515]

OK - a bit of explanation in this post of some of the design and build features of a 'typical' steel string guitar for those who haven't ever built one but might.  I stress that, after building only two acoustics before, I'm no expert but it's OK because experienced acoustic builders will have 'unfollow''d this thread long ago  .    In my defence, this is still firmly in the basics territory, but it is info I would have appreciated understanding prior to embarking on my own first acoustic build.

First of all - what plan am I following?

Got one of the Elite Guitar Plans because it was easier than printing off the numerous versions on the internet and stitching together so many A4 sheets.  The design is the pretty ubiquitous one based on the Martin X brace design of yesteryear.  The plan is pretty good too, other than the spelling (it's OK - it's just a brit thing ).

So the basics:

• The top is spheroidal, like a slice of a 25 foot radius football
• The braces not only transfer the string vibrations, via the bridge and underlying bridgeplate, to various regions of the top, they also form and hold the top in the 25' radius spheroidal shape.
• So the bottoms of the braces need to have a radius appropriate to were they will sit on the sphere
• And for that, we use the 25' radius dish again

In pictures:

First the braces are cut to profile.  These are flat bottomed at this stage so allowances need to be made in terms of the thickness.  I also leave them long so I can trim to my planned final length based on my actual sides assembly.

The plan shows where each of the braces will be positioned:

 

But, at the moment, they are flat bottomed - and they need to sit unstressed in their final positions in the radius dish so that, when they are glued down into the top - done also in the radius dish - they will force and hold the top in that spheroidal shape.  And at the moment they don't...yet:

It always surprises me just how curved 25' is!  

So - the next step is to curve the bottoms of each of the braces so that they sit in the dish with no gaps.

Then we can reveal the black magic of the go-bar deck 

Hope that makes sense to those who are interested... 

[Andyjr1515]

And I know what some of you are thinking.

You are thinking - 'Yes - Andyjr1515 is right.  25 feet is a tighter curve than you would imagine.  And surely he's going to run out of wood on those X-braces when he tries to cut the radius?'

 

 

Which is why I'm splicing 4 extensions to the X-brace ends...

 

[Andyjr1515]

Bringing things up to date, I shaped the bottoms of the braces to fit properly in the radius dish

 

Then got the ramshackle home-made go-bar deck back out of the spare room and reassembled, and then started gluing the braces:

So that got me the top dished and the braces in position, ready for creating the arched x-sections and the black magic of tap tuning

[Andyjr1515]

Did my vague attempt at tap tuning.

There is a great video here on the subject - skip to the last 15mins or so where he actually does it and you can hear the difference.  As an illustration, in terms of tone, my attempts at tuning end at the point that his begin!

 

 

Anyway, this is what my braces looked like at the end:

Then preparation for the top to be glued.  Note the X brace and top cross brace actually extend under the kerfed strip to the body sides:

Then - checking once again for a tight fit inside and out (because remember, the outside will be routed away to fit the binding), on it goes!

 

 

That done, onto the same process for the back - this time using a 15 foot radius dish.  

Before I do that, I add a back strip hiding the join line.  Note, by the way, the fairly dreadful tear out.  It was bad, and I tried to lessen it and made it worse!     If it had been for a customer, it would have been a scrapper (and the sides too because they are a matched set) but for my own use I will just fill the voids with a tru-oil slurry.

 

Then radiusing the back braces:

 

I shape them first, then glue them using simple cauls to press them into the radius dish:

 

Then added the cross-grain joint strengthening strips - I'm 'breaking the back' slightly during the glue drying to help in that the back accommodates an addition curve as it goes from full body depth at the tail to heel depth at the front:

The all important label:

Then cut a few protecting cauls for the top, chamfered at the back edges to they don't dig into the soft top:

And glued the back!

 

Huge amount still to do but it's starting to look like a guitar!

 

 

 

[mistermikev]

i don't want this to get weird... but that wood looks so much like a woman's stocking... is it just me?  Keep thinking 'F-R-A-G-I-L-E'.  that thing just looks great.  thanks again for sharing!

[Andyjr1515]

On 8/28/2018 at 12:09 AM, mistermikev said:

i don't want this to get weird... but that wood looks so much like a woman's stocking... is it just me?  Keep thinking 'F-R-A-G-I-L-E'.  that thing just looks great.  thanks again for sharing!

No - I think that's just you, Mike   

Anyone can see it's a pair of tights

 

[mistermikev]

lol.

[Andyjr1515]

And to my least favourite job bar none of any build - binding!

I don't have the room (and in the UK they are VERY expensive) for one of the fancy Bosch Colt -type binding cutting rigs.  Instead, I use the 'OK I suppose but basically fundamentally flawed but admittedly better than cutting a binding channel with a blunt screwdriver' Stewmac Dremel guide.  This one:

 

For anyone who has used one, they will know that the binding slot will be square and even in thickness and following a continuous joint line as long as you can "keep the top-heavy and vibrating assembly with the tiny bearing completely square and perpendicular and tangentially even on three planes all the time while the router bit hits the wood and the assembly scrapes round an undulating multi-radius curve".

So I had a think.

Surely this couldn't possibly work to at least help keeping perpendicular on two planes?

What is it, Andy?   Binding!!!!

How's it attached, Andy?  With SUPERGLUE????!!!!!  

"Wow - Andy's gone and done it this time!  Hey folks - this we HAVE to see...."    

 

 

Well - and here I'll readily admit I'm as surprised as you lot - it worked.

     

And - after doing the best job yet using this device on all three of the binding channels - it's still in one piece!

 

[Mr Natural]

way to use your noggin andy and solve a problem!

for a flat top (rob allen mb-2 copy I made) I had built a router table insert to hold my binding dremel guide upside down in my router table- and hold it "perfectly" still and perpendicular  to the router table and it worked=-for flat tops anyway-it would not work on a radius topped guitar such as an acoustic. 

with all due respect - I am totally ripping off this idea when the time comes to do so.

bravo dude. 

[ScottR]

On 9/1/2018 at 7:40 AM, Andyjr1515 said:

And to my least favourite job bar none of any build - binding!

Amen brother!

Nice modification to that mickey mouse channel cutting rig.

SR

[Andyjr1515]

One of the reasons I do detailed build threads is that I have such a bad memory that I often can't remember how I do certain things...even when I have a rare flash of inspiration that actually works. 

Take binding, for example - my least favourite job on guitars.  Except it isn't anymore . Except I forgot it wasn't!

And the reason it isn't was a flash of inspiration a couple of years ago.

But before I remembered that, I did the top binding the normal way 

That is, bending:

Then gluing with titebond using reinforced tape to hold it tightly in place:

Then reinforce that further with the help of tyres off the neighbours kids bikes (they haven't noticed yet):

 

And that gave me this:

But what I hate is that it is a lot of faff, it is a bit hit and miss and you don't know if there any gaps until the followig day and THEN what do you do??!!!

Well...I did have a couple of gaps 

And what I did was get my iron out, heat it up to melt the glue, then pull down the binding until the gap closed and held it in place until it cooled.

And only then did I remember my inspiration...ironing on the binding!

So again it starts with pre bending the binding.  Then out comes the veneering kit - pva and iron.  

Painted glue on the slot:

 

Then on the binding itself:

Then let it dry:

And then just iron it on!

The heat of the iron melts the two pva layers, you hold it tight and in place for 10 to 15 seconds until it cools enough to grip, then move on to the next bit.  You can leave it and come back to it.  It's fully repeatable and you know instantly that it's worked.  10 minutes after starting the ironing, I had this:

Did I tell you...I just LOVE doing binding 

[Andyjr1515]

Wow!  I am WELL behind on the forum - both in catching up with other threads and updating the progress on mine.

I'll spend some time today trying to catch up with the former.  For the latter, I'd better do a quick photo-update.  If anyone wants any more detail of any of the bits and pieces just shout - I have loads of photos of the various trials and tribulations!

Oh - and gosh...just seeing how out of date I am, I'd better update this in a number of posts.

First - the neck, then

Using a block to simulate the fretboard height at the heel, I worked out the neck angle to get me level with the top of the bridge:

 

Then used my cobbled up home-made version of the O'Brien neck routing jig, routed that angle on the end of the tenon:

Then got the G&W template in play to finish the tenon rout:

 

Next was the scary bit of clamping the body in the jig to rout the mortice:

 

And a lot of chisel relief and sandpaper flossing later, we had a decent joint at the right angle:

 

[Andyjr1515]

Still on the neck, I added a couple of wings onto the headstock and then some offcut from the back wood as a headstock plate, adding some purfling as a border and a couple of MoP swifts:

 

Finally, a rough neck carve - I'll finish this off when it's all strung up and I can get the feel of how I want it to play:

[Andyjr1515]

Then onto finishing the body.  For the back and sides, I used slurry and wipe tru-oil as sealer, grain fill and to fill the horrendous rookie tear-out I created on the back. 

For the top - I SHOULD have used egg white again - but instead tried a cellulose based melamine wipe on sealer, but that wasn't particularly successful.  I don't use tru-oil for a spruce top because it does tend to tint the wood a little pinkish.  Anyway, ended with my favoured standard polyurethane varnish but - now they have changed the formulation for environmental reasons - thinned less and brushed on using an artists' fan brush:

 

Not perfect, but with my method I can quite easily - while trying to go from OK to better - make it worse.  So I've judged that this is the time to stop:

 

[Andyjr1515]

To shape the underside of the bridge, I used the old 'engineers blue' method, but using chalk:

First put masking tape on the body and chalked it up, then rubbed the bridge on the area:

Then scraped off where the chalk was - the 'high spots'.  Then repeated:

And repeated again and again until the fit was good:

 

For the actual fitting of the bridge,  I used the Stewmac calculator to ensure the bridge was in exactly the right place:

...before I scored round it and scraped off the varnish under the bridge

And then, using a couple of the pegs drilled through to prevent it floating out of position glued it using my bridge clam and my home-made bridge wings clamp:

[Guitar Goomba]

Fantastic work here.  I know you only see the parts that you think aren't perfect, but I think it's beautiful and would be proud to own it.

[ScottR]

Yeah, that's looking really nice Andy. That top's got a cool little ripple figure thing going too, very cool.

SR

[Andyjr1515]

Loads to do before it's finished but I reckon you can't tell if the bridge is right unless you string it up!

So here it is - not finished but strung up:

 

And...it sounds fantastic

[Lwguitar]

I love that headstock! Is there a tonal advantage to having the bass strings farther back or is it a just for looks!

[FINEFUZZ]

Absolutely gorgeous build.  How does it sound?

[Andyjr1515]

3 hours ago, Lwguitar said:

I love that headstock! Is there a tonal advantage to having the bass strings farther back or is it a just for looks!

Neither - it's just to get the geometry to allow for straight string runs

 

[Andyjr1515]

2 hours ago, FINEFUZZ said:

Absolutely gorgeous build.  How does it sound?

I couldn't be more pleased with it!  

I've just fitted the electrics and done the set up.  My intention is to do a few sound demos of acoustic only and then with the Shadow Double play switched on over the next few days.  I'll post them as soon as I've done them  

[Andyjr1515]

A couple of noodling unplugged sound clips here.  Probably best on headphones:

https://soundcloud.com/andy-rogers-6/sets/ajr-dreadnought-acoustic-soundclips

 

Andy

[gpcustomguitars]

Very nice, congratulations!!! Nice crisp sound, and good playing too!