New Magnum build

[Skyjerk]

2 minutes ago, ScottR said:

That's the way I pictured it going too. There must be some sort of clean up option though. The instructions said shoot 3 coats.

 

SR

 

Yep. I shoot 3 coats with 20 minutes in between them, and I clean the gun between each coat. I dont do a full disassemble, but I throw some acetone in the cup and give it a good swirl, open the mix all the way up till its flowing out nicely through the nozzle, then pull off the nozzle and air cap and swirl them around in a jar of acetone. Its a fairly cursory, 3 minute cleanup. Then I have a smoke or hit the head, then reassemble, mix the next batch, and shoot again.

After the 3rd coat I do a full-on cleaning.

Its a pain, but you DONT want any of it to kick while its still in the gun.

I really dont enjoy that part at all, and its also smelly

The results make it worth the hassle

[FINEFUZZ]

This is a very stunning build.  The fingerboard is SICK, and the quilting it very luscious.

[Skyjerk]

37 minutes ago, FINEFUZZ said:

This is a very stunning build.  The fingerboard is SICK, and the quilting it very luscious.

Thanks! It IS luscious, isnt it?

That's a good word for it

I honestly didnt expect it to turn out as nice as it did. I surprised myself

[Skyjerk]

18 hours ago, ScottR said:

I'm pretty sure transtint is analine as well.

 

This was news to me, so I decided to look into this because I had never heard this said before, and I honestly didnt know.

According to the manufacturer "TransTint® Dyes are a solution of metal-complex dyes in a special solvent". Another source says "TransTints are formulated from light stable metallized acid dyes"

Aniline is apparently an organic compound.

based on this, I dont think transtint is aniline, but I cant find any information that specifically says it is or is not, so while I'm leaning toward "not", I wouldn't be prepared to place a wager on it

[Guitar Goomba]

Gorgeous.  Very informative as well.  Thank you.

[Skyjerk]

Just a different shot showing off the shape of the top.

Very minor ripples and orange peel remain at this point and should wet sand flat with minimal effort.

When shooting, I give the last build coats a full day to harden and then sand them flat using my random orbital sander and a 600 grit sanding disk. This literally takes maybe 5 minutes. Then shoot a final coat of clear thats thinned a lot so that it flows out nice and flat, and completely fills the scratches left by the 600 grit sanding.

This 5 minutes of work at this stage saves hours of wet sanding in a month since I've already removed 98% of the orange peel.

Also, I decided to finish the back and sides with a satin rather than the entire guitar being high gloss. the gloss will remain on the tops of the body and headstock.

[komodo]

OMG this whole build is just off the hook. Everything is executed so beautifully. 

[Skyjerk]

 

1 hour ago, komodo said:

OMG this whole build is just off the hook. Everything is executed so beautifully. 

 Thank you very much

 i’m very happy with the way it’s turning out. 

The big challenge now is simply dealing with the wait while the lacquer hardens  

[ILL-GREEN]

6 hours ago, Skyjerk said:

Just a different shot showing off the shape of the top.

Very minor ripples and orange peel remain at this point and should wet sand flat with minimal effort.

When shooting, I give the last build coats a full day to harden and then sand them flat using my random orbital sander and a 600 grit sanding disk. This literally takes maybe 5 minutes. Then shoot a final coat of clear thats thinned a lot so that it flows out nice and flat, and completely fills the scratches left by the 600 grit sanding.

This 5 minutes of work at this stage saves hours of wet sanding in a month since I've already removed 98% of the orange peel.

Also, I decided to finish the back and sides with a satin rather than the entire guitar being high gloss. the gloss will remain on the tops of the body and headstock.

Awesome technique with the varnish!

 

I piled on like 7 coats so far on my Les Paul and was kinda irked by its ridgid surface.  I thought it will smooth out in the waxing stage but a little voice in my head says "sand it down with an ultra fine grit".  I guess he is right.

[Skyjerk]

4 hours ago, ILL-GREEN said:

Awesome technique with the varnish!

 

I piled on like 7 coats so far on my Les Paul and was kinda irked by its ridgid surface.  I thought it will smooth out in the waxing stage but a little voice in my head says "sand it down with an ultra fine grit".  I guess he is right.

What are you using for a top coat?

i used nitrocellulose lacquer, sprayed on with Iwata HVLP gun. Mohawk piano lacquer is my go-to producT.  given that a sprayed top coat with any significant build will have some degree of orange peel that will need to be wet sanded flat once it's fully hardened. You can save yourself significant wet sanding by fully leveling it before you shoot your final coat like I described above.

in a month I will wet sand the whole surface until it's perfectly smooth, starting at 800 grit. I will then repeat the entire process with 1200 grit until all the scratches from the 800 are completely gone. 

Following that i will buff it on my buffer with medium compound, and then again with fine compound, and finish with swirl remover. At that point it will be glass smooth and have a hard, mirror finish.

generally, people that don't have a buffer will continue up through finer and finer grits with the wet sanding going as high as 2500 or even 3000 grit.

Thats pretty much SOP with gloss nitro. It's never done with shooting the finish as the final step unless it's a satin finish.

In my case, I'll be dry sanding the sides and back flat this weekend with 800 and shooting satin clear. For those areas that will in fact be the final step, but it has to be perfect

[ILL-GREEN]

2 hours ago, Skyjerk said:

What are you using for a top coat?

i used nitro sprayed on. It's a given that a sprayed top coat with any significant build will have some degree of orange peel that will need to be wet sanded flat once it's fully hardened. You can save yourself significant wet sanding by fully leveling it before you shoot your final coat like I described above.

in a month I will wet sand the whole surface until it's perfectly smooth, starting at 800 grit. I will then repeat the entire process with 1200 grit until all the scratches from the 800 are completely gone. 

Following that i will buff it on my buffer with medium compound, and then again with fine compound, and finish with swirl remover. At that point it will be glass smooth and have a hard, mirror finish.

generally, people that don't have a buffer will continue up through finer and finer grits with the wet sanding going as high as 2500 or even 3000 grit.

Thats pretty much SOP with gloss nitro. It's never done with shooting the finish as the final step unless it's a satin finish.

In my case, I'll be dry sanding the sides and back flat this weekend with 800 and shooting satin clear. For those areas that will in fact be the final step, but it has to be perfect

I am using polyurethane clear gloss to stack up the layers with a brush (I definitely need an air spray system) but I didn't know there can be a top coat. I thought buffering it with wax was the final layering to the top.  I'm a newb at this and have some carpentry background, I've built speaker cabs and special furniture like armoires (people that record at home with kids love those). I usually just stain and seal them. 

 

So do you think it would be best to dry sand to smooth the poly first and then add another coat of polyurethane to soak into the sanding? Then add a top coat?  

I live in Puerto Rico at the moment and specialty material is extremely hard to get here. I had to mix natural stain in Testor model paints to get colors I desired because the Home Depot here carries only the usual browns and reds. 

 

What would be a good alternative to the nitro?

 

And sorry for the questions but a huge mega thank you.

[Norris]

Beautiful work Mr Jerk!

[Skyjerk]

8 hours ago, ILL-GREEN said:

I am using polyurethane clear gloss to stack up the layers with a brush (I definitely need an air spray system) but I didn't know there can be a top coat. I thought buffering it with wax was the final layering to the top.  I'm a newb at this and have some carpentry background, I've built speaker cabs and special furniture like armoires (people that record at home with kids love those). I usually just stain and seal them. 

 

So do you think it would be best to dry sand to smooth the poly first and then add another coat of polyurethane to soak into the sanding? Then add a top coat?  

I live in Puerto Rico at the moment and specialty material is extremely hard to get here. I had to mix natural stain in Testor model paints to get colors I desired because the Home Depot here carries only the usual browns and reds. 

 

What would be a good alternative to the nitro?

 

And sorry for the questions but a huge mega thank you.

By "top coat" I simply mean whatever you use as your final finish. In the case of this guitar I used aniline dyes for color on the wood, then simtec sanding sealer to seal it in, followed by toner in the form of sprayed on nitro tinted with medium brown, and finally just clear nitro. So the simtec is my sealer, the tinted nitro is my base coat, and the clear nitro is my top coat.

I'm not very familiar with polyurethane coatings, but I believe they can (should) be wet sanded just like nitro, to remove orange peel, ripples, scratches, etc. I'm about 99% sure that you would not be able to shoot nitro on top of poly even if you had access to it. Different coatings can react badly with each other, or just not adhere well to each other and end up delaminating.

If its not a catalyzed coating like 2K, (im assuming yours is wipe on or brush on) you should be able to apply more after wet sanding it, however it may be too viscous to settle out flat and leave brush marks, etc.

I thin my final coat significantly so that it flows out nice and flat, I dont know if your product can be thinned or what it should be thinned with.

You should be able to get all that information, if not from the label, then from google searches or contact the manufacturer, or look on their website.

If your poly is thick enough to sand flat without sanding through to the wood, you probably dont actually need anything else. I cant say if 7 coats is thick enough yet or not. Its hard to say without knowing anything about your particular product.

In my case I used 6 coats of Mohawk nitro. When I was using Behlen nitro I did 10 or 12 coats because Mohawk has a higher content of solids than Behlen, and builds faster and so requires less coats to achieve the same thickness.

I've seen people achieve awesome finishes with brushed on poly, so you are probably going to be fine. Just do some research in places like this and other guitar building forums and ask questions about your specific product. I can almost guarantee there's people out there that can speak with authority about your particular type of coating and give you good advice.

 

[ILL-GREEN]

Thank you Skyjerk! Nice to meet helpful people. 

I am using Varathane Masters clear gloss and its viscosity is like maple syrup.  It reads that if used to spray, to add thinner, so I guess it would be alright.  I managed to get 600, 1000, 2000 and 3000 grit at my local Auto Zone which surprised me that its available here, so happy I can begin my road to a nice mirror shine :D

[Skyjerk]

6 minutes ago, ILL-GREEN said:

Thank you Skyjerk! Nice to meet helpful people. 

I am using Varathane Masters clear gloss and its viscosity is like maple syrup.  It reads that if used to spray, to add thinner, so I guess it would be alright.  I managed to get 600, 1000, 2000 and 3000 grit at my local Auto Zone which surprised me that its available here, so happy I can begin my road to a nice mirror shine

 

Do not use just any generic paint or lacquer thinner. Some will work for your product and some will ruin it

Again, read the manufacturers instructions on what thinner to use for their product.

[Norris]

Be careful sanding back poly. If you go through a coat it may leave witness lines that will remain visible under subsequent coats. Nitro is a little more forgiving because the coats blend together rather than being in distinct layers

[Guitar Goomba]

That tiger's eye is to die for!  I might have to try that on one of my builds.

[ILL-GREEN]

Thanks for that info.  I will experiment on some scraps of wood first before mixing the two.  I used to paint sofubi for promotions, there was incident where the thinner was as if sizzling in the paint, caused a bunch of little bubbles.  Ever since, I been cautious, reading labels and learned a little chemistry 101.

On 10/4/2018 at 12:13 PM, Skyjerk said:

 

Do not use just any generic paint or lacquer thinner. Some will work for your product and some will ruin it

Again, read the manufacturers instructions on what thinner to use for their product.

Thanks, I had a couple dog hairs in a layer and managed to sand the tiny line. I had to use a Qtip to fill it with poly then let it dry to sand it lightly again. 

On 10/5/2018 at 7:15 AM, Norris said:

Be careful sanding back poly. If you go through a coat it may leave witness lines that will remain visible under subsequent coats. Nitro is a little more forgiving because the coats blend together rather than being in distinct layers

 

[Skyjerk]

So, final update till I sand, buff, and assemble this baby.

The top of the body and top of the headstock are good to go until final sanding and buffing since they will be a high gloss. They will get wet sanded and buffed out after a few more weeks of hardening, but as previously indicated, I decided I wanted a satin finish for the back, sides, neck, and the sides and back of the headstock

Yesterday I dry sanded the entire back, sides, and neck with 600 grit until it was perfectly flat and smooth. I took some serious time with this because after shooting the satin lacquer those areas are done. No sanding or buffing those areas so they have to be absolutely perfect before you shoot, and you also have to be perfect with your spraying.

The finish needs to be evenly applied and perfectly with NO SAGS, GAPS, or RUNS or you have to let it dry, re-sand the area, and re-shoot.

anyhoo, I had some anxiety about it because I've only done satin before on a couple Strat necks which are a lot smaller BUT now I'm on the other side and it turned out perfect. Exactly what I hoped.

So the good news for me is that in a few weeks all I need to wet sand and buff is the top of the body and headstock, and those are pretty damn flat already, so I should be able to make short work of those areas.

Ignore the cover not sitting flat. I made that to tight tolerances, and the lacquer shrunk the recess just enough to keep it from dropping in. The lacquer will shrink a bit more over the next few weeks and will hopefully drop right in at that point, but if I have to do a bit of light sanding to the edge of the cover thats no big deal. Its unfinished so it'll be about 3 minutes worth of work to fit it.

 

 

 

[ScottR]

Very nicely executed!

SR

[Skyjerk]

One week to go till I can sand and buff and assemble. It's killing me....

[Andyjr1515]

Stunning build.  Stunning....

[mistermikev]

wow, even the backside is breathtaking (do not take that the wrong way)

[Skyjerk]

Ok well I did my fret work last night. 

After dressing the fret ends, leveled with a leveling beam (400 grit paper)I crowned using a stewmac Z file. Really good product. Did the job fast and perfectly

Folllwing that I polished stating at 320, then 400, 600, 1500, 2000, and then 0000 steel wool

So I completed the steel wool on every fret, and then used my dremel with a small buffing wheel and green jewelers rouge (compound) and got the shine I was looking for.

The usual start

Used this fret end dressing file I got from Crimson Guitars. Good results. My technique needs some. polishing too, though

Finally sprung for the ubiquitous purple sharpie. Now I know why they are so common in the fret tutorials I've seen. I'd used black till now and the purple is just easier to see.

 

My fret ends look way nicer than my previous builds. Still learning, but the overall polish and smoothness is superior to previous fret jobs

This baby is gonna have some smooth bending

 

Today is a down day. The last two years has apparently caused me to start grinding my teeth and clenching my jaw in my sleep. So hard that I've chipped several teeth and fractured the root on one of my molars, which of course developed an abscess.
Had the thing extracted this AM and now I'm enjoying the complete and utter lack of pain relief provided by that Wonder product called Tylenol.

That said, tomorrow I'm going to sand and buff the top and headstock, and Saturday will see this build completed

[ScottR]

Nice fret work Chris. I nearly ordered on e of those Z files a couple weeks back....now I'm going to have to revisit that decision.

I'm really really looking forward to seeing the shots of the finished product.

SR