ADFinlayson Posted April 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, komodo said: That thing looks incredible. It's like it's just waiting to get out and do some damage to something. Angry blood red LP will not fail! Ha not if I keep sanding all the red off. its not perfect, but we are back on track 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 10 hours ago, ADFinlayson said: Ha not if I keep sanding all the red off. its not perfect, but we are back on track Excellent! That looks a lot better overall to my eyes. Well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Excellent! That looks a lot better overall to my eyes. Well done Thanks, I've got rid of the majority of the bobbles with all the scuff and wet sanding I did, clearly sanding through the sealer was as far as I needed to go I'm going to add another couple of wipe on coats, then sand another coat in with wet and dry and hopefully that will do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Out of interest, these bobbles that I've been referring to - is that orange peel? or are they two different things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Orange peel looks like, umm..., orange peel. It's basically flat with tiny dimples all around. Yours looked like it had tiny pimples all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Bizman62 said: Orange peel looks like, umm..., orange peel. It's basically flat with tiny dimples all around. Yours looked like it had tiny pimples all around. pimples/dimples, is there a difference in clear-coating terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) Lost in translation, it seems... Orange peel has tiny gaps in it just like an orange. Apparently it's because little bubbles burst on the wet surface and the clearcoat is so stiff that it can resist gravity and not auto-level. Yours looked like filled with tiny mountains, or covered with transparent grain. That can happen when the clearcoat mist partially hardens before hitting the surface. If you've ever driven a car in supercool rain you know what I mean. Both have to be sanded down so no difference there unless "knocking the tops off" is considered else than "sanding level with the lowest spots". If that made any more sense? Edited April 24, 2019 by Bizman62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 "levels jerry!" you might try warming your can prior... I'm told warm faucet water will minimize this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 This subject didn't leave me overnight, so here's some thoughts. Notice that I'm by no means a Master of the dark Art of Finishing or anything like that, this is just logical thinking based on elementary public school physics... 13 hours ago, mistermikev said: you might try warming your can prior Great wisdom there. Any liquid becomes runnier when it's warm and obviously a runny fluid levels faster than stiff. Warming a rattle can servers another purpose as well: The gas within expands and causes higher pressure at the nozzle, thus lowering the viscosity of the lacquer and slamming each minuscule droplet flat on the surface with a higher velocity. Speaking about viscosity, the product used for finishing should be runny enough to fill any pores and gaps for good grip and level finish, yet it should be stiff enough not to run off the surface to be finished. Further, especially with instruments, the layers should be thin enough not to ruin the sound. Thus the instructions for a glass smooth resin finish done by pouring don't apply here. It's either spraying or wiping, and sanding in between and after that we have to do to achieve the results we want. Thinners are used for controlling the viscosity. Air is in a significant role in the drying process as is the evaporating surface versus thickness of the layer. When sprayed, the surface area of the lacquer is at the largest in its mist form right before hitting the surface. Thus, the farther away you spray, the drier the mist is on the guitar, in warm/dry conditions even more so. That may be one reason for the bobbles, another being the slow spraying speed and high viscosity caused by a cold rattle can. Yet another thing to consider: As we know raindrops need a dust particle to form. Just how much microscopic sanding dust do you have in the air of your workshop? Imagine every mist droplet of finish coming through the nozzle having a dust core! Bobbles... Short (hopefully) summary: warm finish runs easier through the nozzle and levels better on the surface high pressure lowers the viscosity of the finish as well a thick layer of stiff finish causes orange peel since the bubbles bursting on the surface don't level - add thinner or heat the lacquer for lower viscosity a longer spraying distance causes the finish partially harden during its flight through the air - bobbles a longer spraying distance also allows more dust to attach to the sprayed mist - more bobbles high temperature and dry air while spraying make the finish cure faster, partially even when it's still in the air as mist microscopic dust attached to minuscule lacquer mist droplets can cause issues So the recipe for a good sprayed finish is to use warmed lacquer sprayed at the right distance considering the temperature and humidity of the surrounding atmosphere. I may be terribly wrong here and there as my logic may fail. Please correct where necessary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I still wonder whether some of this is raised grain. I know some sanding sealers do raise the grain a lot. For unstained wood this is presumably a desirable effect. That is, sand smooth, apply sanding sealer that blocks moisture absorption and raises and stiffens the grain, then final light sand for a silky smooth sealed surface ready for the finishing coats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: I still wonder whether some of this is raised grain. I know some sanding sealers do raise the grain a lot. For unstained wood this is presumably a desirable effect. That is, sand smooth, apply sanding sealer that blocks moisture absorption and raises and stiffens the grain, then final light sand for a silky smooth sealed surface ready for the finishing coats? I raised the grain and sanded off the fuzz several times before staining, and rubbed down the dried, stain stained surface several times with wire wool, then rubbed down again once it was sealed. It was definitely smooth, anyway I'm back to building up layers of poly because some twat sanded through the sealer again Losing the will to live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 You'll get there...don't fret Interesting comment at the end of the features of Chestnut Sanding Sealer here, by the way.... I wonder if this is what the bobbles are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Oooh! The (not so) Secret Agent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: You'll get there...don't fret Interesting comment at the end of the features of Chestnut Sanding Sealer here, by the way.... I wonder if this is what the bobbles are? interesting, that would imply that I didn't knock back the sealer well enough with the wire will in some places and would explain a lot. If that is the case, I'm not sure what I can do to remedy that without sanding the whole lot down to nothing and starting again - Something I don't want to do because it seems like I'm so close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, ADFinlayson said: interesting, that would imply that I didn't knock back the sealer well enough with the wire will in some places and would explain a lot. If that is the case, I'm not sure what I can do to remedy that without sanding the whole lot down to nothing and starting again - Something I don't want to do because it seems like I'm so close I'm sure it doesn't need that. And I'm sure you are pretty close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Generally it's looking a lot better. There are lots of minute scratches/swirl marks that I'm hoping will buff out. But the area between the pickups that I recently managed to sand through is not looking good at all. I'm wondering whether I should just sand this whole patch back to bare wood and attempt to restain etc or whether 3 sandthrough is enough to just sand it all off and start again with what I've learnt. Or final option, screw it just buff this and see how good I can get this looking, and take away lessons learnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 So when I put a fresh coat of poly, the area between the pickups looks completely seamless. Which makes me think that area just doesn't have enough finish compared the the rest of the top and doesn't need restaining. AAARGH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Whether to leave that bit of lightening or not is personal choice. I've got the same on my second-most-expensive-I-ever-bought guitar and it's never bothered me.... But the buffing out of the swirls bothers me. Do remember that poly applied like this doesn't respond like many other finishes and you will always be bufging through to other previously buffed levels... Personally, I'd give it the last one or two "wiped with a varnish-laden but squeezed out cloth" I mention above and THAT will be the final gloss finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said: So when I put a fresh coat of poly, the area between the pickups looks completely seamless. Which makes me think that area just doesn't have enough finish compared the the rest of the top and doesn't need restaining. AAARGH! Looks good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Whether to leave that bit of lightening or not is personal choice. I've got the same on my second-most-expensive-I-ever-bought guitar and it's never bothered me.... But the buffing out of the swirls bothers me. Do remember that poly applied like this doesn't respond like many other finishes and you will always be bufging through to other previously buffed levels... Personally, I'd give it the last one or two "wiped with a varnish-laden but squeezed out cloth" I mention above and THAT will be the final gloss finish. what about all these tiny scratches? they are from p2000 wet paper sanding. Should I just apply final coats on top of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, ADFinlayson said: what about all these tiny scratches? they are from p2000 wet paper sanding. Should I just apply final coats on top of them? Yes. You will find that when the first very light coat dries some may show. The second light coat usually hides them. Sometimes it needs a third - but rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, Andyjr1515 said: Yes. You will find that when the first very light coat dries some may show. The second light coat usually hides them. Sometimes it needs a third - but rarely. Cool, I'll crack on with that. Thanks Andy, your advice on this has been a life saver. I owe you a beer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Calling it done! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Wow, shiny! And red, and flamed! Looks like a ***** magnet! Is that a rough spot or a reflection between the neck pickup and the switch? *****= drool. Honi soit qui mal y pense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted April 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bizman62 said: Wow, shiny! And red, and flamed! Looks like a ***** magnet! Is that a rough spot or a reflection between the neck pickup and the switch? *****= drool. Honi soit qui mal y pense. That is a reflection, there is however a rough spot between the pups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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