First build - Hollow Custom 22.

[Andyjr1515]

I did a headstock back plate and a top plate on this one.  Worked reasonably well:

 

[Andyjr1515]

27 minutes ago, Urumiko said:

When i said fender style, i didnt mean fender style. I meant as you say a lip at the end. I've not seen this done before on a guitar though. Have you ever seen this on a production model?

There's nothing wrong with doing that at all in that the string break angle is shallower than the lip would be so there's no clash.

BUT - might there be an issue with getting an allen key access and being able to turn it if you are using a modern trussrod?

For it to work the normal 'righty tighty' way, the trussrod metal strip would be at the top (as seen on your vid) and the second bar with the allen nut at the bottom.  This puts the nut access quite low down in the headstock on an angled headstock arrangement.  Usually, this needs a slot, with the sides cut away to allow the key to be able to get in and turn.  And hence the usual arrangement of this being hidden by a truss rod cover.  This is pretty much the smallest slot to get a standard allen key in and able to turn:

 

Turning a two way truss rod round with the metal strip at the bottom will get the allen nut higher, and it will work just as well, but you will need to turn the allen key opposite way to 'tighten' the truss rod against the string tension.

Don't know whether this helps or further confuses

 

[ADFinlayson]

2 hours ago, Urumiko said:

Cheers ash,

Only place i think i'll differ from that is i want to carve the neck before doing the inlay etc.. I dont want to waste my time on inlay only to trash the necl later ^_^.

THe thing im dreading most other than the palmwood tear out right now is just actually trying to get things mm accurate.
I keep trying to mark up the heel end to get it neck pocket ready and ending up 1mm out. not that it matters too much i guess.

 

Oh by the way. Your red guitar gt an "OOOOOHHHH thats prety from my other half". lol

There is no reason not to carve the neck first - I've done that a few times. The only reason I like to carve the neck last is that I find it easier to hammer frets in when the underside of the neck is flat. 

I wouldn't worry too much about carving the neck, in my experience, the first couple of necks turn out to be a lot chunkier when strung up than they felt at the time of carving, in fact on my first few guitars, I came back and recarved the neck with strings on until I got the feel right. 

Well thanks, your Mrs clearly has good taste  

[Bizman62]

6 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

There is no reason not to carve the neck first - I've done that a few times. The only reason I like to carve the neck last is that I find it easier to hammer frets in when the underside of the neck is flat.

There's opinions and arguments for both ways.

As you say, it's easier to hammer - or press - the frets on when the underside is flat.

Then again, wood is a living material where all sorts of tensions can get released during cutting and carving almost half of the material away. A laminated neck is less prone to warp compared to a one piece neck but it's still wood. Heck, even metals do that as well as stone. Carving first, letting it settle for quite some time, checking that it's still straight...

A combination of the two is to bandsaw the neck to the right thickness, let it settle and use the offcut as a perfectly fitting custom supporting block while hammering the frets in. That would allow fixing some twists and warps before fretting.

[ADFinlayson]

14 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

A combination of the two is to bandsaw the neck to the right thickness, let it settle and use the offcut as a perfectly fitting custom supporting block while hammering the frets in. That would allow fixing some twists and warps before fretting.

Bandsawing the neck to thickness is actually what I do fairly early on, so the neck has been rough cut for a good few days before I get round to carving it. In fact the flying V has had about 3 months to "settle"

[Bizman62]

Well whadda ya know!

So many ways to skin a cat...

[Urumiko]

Latest vid is up.

Its so excitng when you make those big cuts that get you 1 step closer to the final shape.

 

[komodo]

On 5/15/2019 at 7:10 AM, ADFinlayson said:

I wouldn't worry too much about carving the neck, in my experience, the first couple of necks turn out to be a lot chunkier when strung up than they felt at the time of carving, in fact on my first few guitars, I came back and recarved the neck with strings on until I got the feel right. 

I've done this exact thing, twice now. It actually works really well for dialing it in to be a perfect neck.

[ADFinlayson]

3 minutes ago, komodo said:

I've done this exact thing, twice now. It actually works really well for dialing it in to be a perfect neck.

yep, I did it last night - I put the bridge and tuners and a set of strings on the V while I finalised the carve so I could get the feel right. 

[mistermikev]

not to detail... and just thinking out loud here... but perhaps I should do this... but I don't and kind of surprised to read about it (specifically shaping the neck after stringing).

I've arrived at two necks (my first one was not bad but not what I'd shoot for) that have been really great. 

I did use a profile of a neck that I already liked as my target for facets... and I don't think I do as much carving since I cut my grade in with a router first... so that might explain why.  then again, I'm pretty easy to please too! 

[Urumiko]

I've already fallen in to one classic pitfall of making my 1st guitar too heavy, im determined not to have a baseball bat for a neck

[ADFinlayson]

1 hour ago, Urumiko said:

I've already fallen in to one classic pitfall of making my 1st guitar too heavy, im determined not to have a baseball bat for a neck

You still have the option of making the body thinner, with your router sled. You could get it down to a good weight given how hollow it is. I was thinking the other day, you mentioned your concern about the side being too thin - well just glue in some pieces along the sides to give more of a glueing surface, think of how an acoustic is constructed. 

[Urumiko]

5 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

You still have the option of making the body thinner, with your router sled. You could get it down to a good weight given how hollow it is. I was thinking the other day, you mentioned your concern about the side being too thin - well just glue in some pieces along the sides to give more of a glueing surface, think of how an acoustic is constructed. 

hmmm.. yes, I know. To be honest im kind of ok with the thickness asthetically,
I'm almost to the point where i can get a neck pocket cut and will have the basic neck shape.
I feel like when i get to the point where the neck is test fited in the body i can reasess.

I can guarentee though that the wenge will tear out/have slivers fly off at the edges where the grain runs paralel with the edge.

.......Come to think of it i do now own a planer thicknesser machine dont i

The back is thick enough that i could put it through that, though i think id need some kind of prescription sedative to remain calm attempting that...

[ADFinlayson]

30 minutes ago, Urumiko said:

hmmm.. yes, I know. To be honest im kind of ok with the thickness asthetically,
I'm almost to the point where i can get a neck pocket cut and will have the basic neck shape.
I feel like when i get to the point where the neck is test fited in the body i can reasess.

I can guarentee though that the wenge will tear out/have slivers fly off at the edges where the grain runs paralel with the edge.

.......Come to think of it i do now own a planer thicknesser machine dont i

The back is thick enough that i could put it through that, though i think id need some kind of prescription sedative to remain calm attempting that...

Tearout tends not to be a problem when skimming the top with a router, so it's a good way to thickness a plank.

You will probably find that it won't go through your thicknesser. The widest cutting hobby thicknesser on the market is the Triton with a max cut of 317mm, but the PRS body shape is 340mm (this is the bane of my life too) and there is a huge jump in cost between those that wont fit a whole body and ones that will sadly.

[Urumiko]

Hmm well.. I had a bit of an iffy day today. 
I planed a taper in to my fretboard. no issues there. Always a pleasure.

Then but before coming to glue i realised my board could rock back and forth.
I realised both my board and neck black were not perfectly flat,

I had a go at flattening them with my planes, but after gluing there's still a bit of a gap in places

Quite disheartening. I was leaning towards rebate routing and adding binding anyways so i think i'll pull it back.
But quite disheartening none the less. No point trying to take the board off to fix it. It will just destroy my blank.
I've seeped superglue in to the gaps for strength.

I've also noticed ive somehow ended up with a slight forward bow in my neck after clamping..
It never ends 

[Bizman62]

11 hours ago, Urumiko said:

No point trying to take the board off to fix it. It will just destroy my blank.
I've seeped superglue in to the gaps for strength

Give it a try, though. Even super glue will break when heated, as well as Titebond. According to some sources the flash point is about 80 degrees which won't scorch the wood. A clothes iron and a heated palette knife plus some small wedges should do.

If you used the foaming type of glue, it won't come off by heating. Instead, a shock like dropping the neck on the floor might break the bond. How to slam the neck for the desired effect without bruising it is another issue.

[Urumiko]

4 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Give it a try, though. Even super glue will break

yeah it was just gorilla pva based glue i used. It wasn't the super glue i was worried about. it was the palm wood itself ripping huge chunks out.

that and my lack of skill at actually getting things flat.

I really am inclined to leave it if the bond is strong and cover the edge with binding.

I.m wondering if in future running my neck blank over the edge planer machine and putting my fret board through the planer thicknesser might help  

[ADFinlayson]

Show us a picture of the gap, it might be ok. If it's just a visual thing then it will go away when you stick your binding on.

[mistermikev]

some people pay good money for necks that have hollow spots... what I mean by that is that nothing is ever as bad as it seems and the more I learn about building the more I realize you can get away with a LOT!  gap in the fretboard is not ideal, but if it's a small gap here or there I suspect it won't be a big deal. 

afa fwd bow... could be your fretboard pulled your neck out.  before you do any compensation you should probably check you truss rod.  at the end of the day -as long as it's straight when you put frets on, and then straight when you level those frets... the rest really doesn't matter.

[Urumiko]

21 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

Show us a picture of the gap

Preview for you (raw footage some out of focus).
From what i can see the near side is actually perfectly acceptable to put binding over.

The far side looks a lot worse with a more consistent gap. I think this is because the bottom of the fretboard actually has a flight taper on that edge.

 

 

[Bizman62]

Squeeze-out is your friend when gluing. It tells you immediately if there's enough glue in the joint in all places. As with all things too much is too much, when under pressure an even 0,5 mm rim all around the joint is about optimal. A wet rag for wiping the excess off will minimize the need of tidying up with scrapers. 1 mm is still acceptable but after that you'd be having a pool of glue between two pieces of wood which is bad both for the sound and the joint.

Even though you can hide the gaps with binding you should still fill them with something. Otherwise you'd end up having long sound chambers in the neck and those can cause wolf notes.

[mistermikev]

the one side looks just fine... the other side: in retrospect probably should have dry fitted them and caught this but not the end of the world.

I'm familiar with wolf fences in my code... but wolf notes... sounds cool.  I bet someone would pay extra to get 'wolf tone' out of a guitar!

[Bizman62]

3 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

wolf notes... sounds cool

They aren't cool. There may be other names for that phenomenon, wolf note is what I've heard of. It means the instrument has  accidentally tuned to a certain frequency (plus the harmonics) which thus gets extra boost. Think about playing a scale: Do, re, mi, FUUU**!, so...

[mistermikev]

I kind of figured that was what you meant... but was having fun. 

[Bizman62]

3 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

but was having fun

I can't afford that for myself. Trying to write unambiguous sentences in a foreign language is tough enough even without linguistic finesses.