Headless SG - The MazSG

[theunsteve]

Hi folks,

I'm new here starting out my first project and hoping for some feedback.

I have an Epiphone SG-Special and the neck broke. No one will be shocked. What I'm thinking is to make a variation on that headless SG that was floating around a while back. My plan is this:

- Use a locking nut (don't know which to get. Don't have a big budget on this)

- Rout out an area on the bottom of the guitar where the new hole will basically have one area around the edge which is a bit deeper than the center. On this middle area, I'll mount the tuners through new drilled holes, with the pegs sticking out into the moat so there is room to twist em.

I know I haven't done the math yet on the exact depth of the routed area or the peg locations (I staggered them in the concept design like a PRS so I can keep the strings as straight as possible) but is this workable or am I mad?

 

 

[mistermikev]

i suppose it is workable... not sure it's what I would do.  putting the tuner behind the bridge migh result in some issues with string breakage and over time you may be grinding down your saddle pieces but I don't see why it wouldn't work. 

also... I know the guitar you mentioned and it just didn't appeal to my eye - that is not to say that it couldn't be made more appealing. 

had you considered trying to fix the headstock?  esp if you ever plan to part with it - I think that'd likely be a better option IM humble opinion.

[Bizman62]

Do I read the image right? You're going to rout a cavity to the bottom for the headstock? That definitely looks neater than the headless SG with the headstock sideways at the edge and it also features straighter string pull at the bridge which is always a good thing.

What raises the most concern for me is the six posts right under your wrist. Cut the strings carelessly so the ends stick up and you'll end up slashing your right hand radial artery.

[ADFinlayson]

Is there enough meat left on the headstock before the break to hold the locking nut securely? Locking nut will need to screws going down into the neck. Personally I would consider just glueing the headstock back on, you've then got the option of painting it and making the break invisible. 

[theunsteve]

2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

What raises the most concern for me is the six posts right under your wrist. Cut the strings carelessly so the ends stick up and you'll end up slashing your right hand radial artery.

That's a pretty good point. Not sure if my insurance would cover that. Have to ponder that one. If it turns out you saved my life, I definitely owe you at least a beer.
 

[theunsteve]

1 hour ago, ADFinlayson said:

Is there enough meat left on the headstock before the break to hold the locking nut securely? Locking nut will need to screws going down into the neck. Personally I would consider just glueing the headstock back on, you've then got the option of painting it and making the break invisible. 

The headstock is no more. Twas not supplied when I acquired it. I'll have to check if there's enough left to hold the locking nut. Another excellent point. Twil investigate.

[Norris]

Have you got a photo of the break? How much wood is left past the nut? It might open a few more suggestions 

[theunsteve]

1 hour ago, Norris said:

Have you got a photo of the break? How much wood is left past the nut? It might open a few more suggestions 

I appreciate the help. Here are some photos.

[ADFinlayson]

If it was me, I would be making a new neck for that. There is nothing for any but to sit on, let alone a locking nut. 

If you’re after some cheap wood for a neck, check out guitarsandwoods.com they have quarter sawn African  mahogany suitable sg necks and fairly cheap ebony/rosewood boards.

[mistermikev]

here you go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Strings-Saddle-Guitar-Tailpiece-Tremolo-Bridge-For-Headless-Guitar-Replacement/263794614610?hash=item3d6b626152:g:2PkAAOSwRWRbPEdc

good luck

 

side note: I am so tempted to buy this just because i want "overlord of music" on MY guitar!

[Norris]

Ooh nasty. As Mr Findlayson says, there's not much left to attach anything to. You'll certainly have difficulties accessing the truss rod. 

You could probably save the fretboard if you make a new neck

[mistermikev]

the trem I posted a link to actually has a hole for truss adjustment in the headstock end.  you'd prob have to fill in the area a little with epoxy but I think it could be done... and I'd love to see someone do it. 

there is a fixed bridge version of that trem too... probably a better bet as being from china.

 

I look at it this way - you can always steam off that neck and build one if it doesn't work.  w the fixed bridge you might have to fill in some holes but I don't think you'd even have to route it... the only question would be string height... that might require a recess.

probably a bad idea since you got 2 of 3 luthiers saying no.

[Norris]

Actually, thinking about it, you might be able to remove the fretboard and truss rod, then scarf in a new headstock?

[curtisa]

As others have already highlilghted, there isn't enough left to attach a new new nut to the end of the neck.

You could splice in a new section to build up a new extension area to whats left of the headstock that you could then re-shape into the required profile to support your headless nut, but as Noz rightly pointed out:

3 minutes ago, Norris said:

Actually, thinking about it, you might be able to remove the fretboard and truss rod, then scarf in a new headstock?

...the amount of work required to splice in the replacement piece would be the same as splicing in a whole new headstock, namely:

1. Steam off old fret board.
2. Remove truss rod
3. Secure neck in some kind of jig and cut away shattered end where headstock snapped off. Cut/plane/route a new scarf joint into what's left of the neck.
4. Glue new extension (for headless nut assembly or whole new headstock) into the new scarf to extend the neck beyond the nut area. Remember that as the neck is already fully profiled you have very little in the way of flat surfaces left to get a good grip with any clamps while the glue dries.
5. Route new truss rod channel through extended section of neck.
6. Re-shape extended section of neck into your desired headstock shape and blend into existing profile of neck shape.
7. Re-attach fret board. Clamping will be difficult (but not impossible) with the back of the neck already shaped.
8. If looks are important then re-finish the neck where the fret board meets the neck and where the extension piece meets the scarf joint.
9. Fret board is unlikely to have survived the steaming off and re-gluing without some work required, so factor in a fret re-levelling/re-seating and crowning as well.

And then you'd need to do the work on the bridge area to implement whatever tuning system you were looking at installing.

[mistermikev]

22 minutes ago, Norris said:

Actually, thinking about it, you might be able to remove the fretboard and truss rod, then scarf in a new headstock?

I was thinking about scarf but then thought about the truss... those have an anchor no?  do they just unscrew?  I've never taken apart a single action nor built one so have no idea.  seems doable.  seems like there have been lots of options put forth... I'm certain than any one of them could be done if the will is strong enough.

[mistermikev]

1 minute ago, curtisa said:

As others have already highlilghted, there isn't enough left to attach a new new nut to the end of the neck.

You could splice in a new section to build up a new extension area to whats left of the headstock that you could then re-shape into the required profile to support your headless nut, but as Noz rightly pointed out:

...the amount of work required to splice in the replacement piece would be the same as splicing in a whole new headstock, namely:

1. Steam off old fret board.
2. Remove truss rod
3. Secure neck in some kind of jig and cut away shattered end where headstock snapped off. Cut/plane/route a new scarf joint into what's left of the neck.
4. Glue new extension (for headless nut assembly or whole new headstock) into the new scarf to extend the neck beyond the nut area. Remember that as the neck is already fully profiled you have very little in the way of flat surfaces left to get a good grip with any clamps while the glue dries.
5. Route new truss rod channel through extended section of neck.
6. Re-shape extended section of neck into your desired headstock shape and blend into existing profile of neck shape.
7. Re-attach fret board. Clamping will be difficult (but not impossible) with the back of the neck already shaped.
8. If looks are important then re-finish the neck where the fret board meets the neck and where the extension piece meets the scarf joint.
9. Fret board is unlikely to have survived the steaming off and re-gluing without some work required, so factor in a fret re-levelling/re-seating and crowning as well.

And then you'd need to do the work on the bridge area to implement whatever tuning system you were looking at installing.

some good points there... where's that easy button!

[theunsteve]

Looks like I need some new tools.

I'm grateful for everyone's help. It would have been a drag to start the project only to find the nut won't hold on how little is left. I'll keep ya in the loop as I go.

[Bizman62]

That's starting to look like an interesting project to follow.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Bizman62

[theunsteve]

9 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

That's starting to look like an interesting project to follow.

Yeah, I'm going to learn a lot by doing this. Looks like I'm getting my hands on a bass with a broken neck that looks like a much easier fix so I'll start with that one for practice. Ordering some tools and supplies from amazon today so I'll keep everyone in the loop on how they go.