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Epiphone Special Repaint


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Hello,
I have a cheap Epiphone Les Paul special in black that I got like 20 years ago. I’m looking to repaint and upgrade the hardware. 

I’m not so handy so in my research I am seeing that I can sand it with 800 grit sandpaper. Would I be sanding it all the way to the wood or just till the finish is dull? 

The new color I’d like to repaint it is TV yellow. 

Thank for the advice.

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you COULD sand it to the wood.  if you are just repainting, you probably could save yourself work by just roughing up the finish and perhaps deeper sanding where you might have dings and such.  You might want to do a primer over the old finish to ensure the new finish stays on well.  just 2 cents.  good luck!

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4 hours ago, mistermikev said:

you COULD sand it to the wood.  if you are just repainting, you probably could save yourself work by just roughing up the finish and perhaps deeper sanding where you might have dings and such.  You might want to do a primer over the old finish to ensure the new finish stays on well.  just 2 cents.  good luck!

Thank you. And this could be done by hand as opposed to a sander?

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1 minute ago, Frankdemariany said:

Thank you. And this could be done by hand as opposed to a sander?

sure, I think if you are really just scuffing up the surface it's probably better by hand.  that said, if you have any big divots it's going to be a lot more work by hand.

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800 grit seems quite fine for sanding a well cured finish to the wood. After all, there must be at least a quarter of a millimetre of hard plastic like material to be removed!

There's two ways to go, both with some caveats.

The first option requires a semi-flawless existing surface. In such case sanding the guitar matte with 800 grit is good enough. After that you'd need some sanding primer, preferably of a contrasting colour. Paint your guitar with that to fill any scratches and gaps and sand it flush. After that you can then apply the final colour in several layers with sanding in between, the final sanding before buffing done with grits up to 2000 wet. The biggest issue with that is that the paint layer will end up being quite thick which may change the way the guitar resonates.

The second option, which I'd prefer, is to sand it to bare wood or at least to the initial primer. Most likely there's a white coat under the black so if you get most of the black out and replace it with the TV yellow the end result should be of equal thickness with the original. Start with some 240 - 320 grit and sand in one direction only to remove about half of the black layer to a stripy grey-ish with the primer lurking through but no wood visible. Go up to 400 grit and sand diagonally (45 deg) to the previous direction until you've removed all grooves showing the direction of the first sanding. You still should have some black left. Go up to 600 and change the direction again to remove the grooves of the 400 grit. Change to 800 grit and again change the direction by another 45 deg. That should leave you with the original primer surface mostly intact with some black blotches here and there. You should now have a good surface for repainting.

This site provides some good information about sandpapers and the grits used for various tasks: https://www.automotivetouchup.com/sandpaperselection.aspx

Lastly, and this is the most important thing to remember: DON'T APPLY PRESSURE when you're sanding!! The weight of your palm is plenty enough. Let the paper do the job and just move it around. As you know, sandpaper consists of myriads of tiny chips and no matter how hard you press you can't make them go deeper into the material than what they protrude from the backing paper. On the contrary. Think about mowing lawn: You can't make the grass shorter by using a roller, the culms have to stand in order to be cut.

 

Edited by Bizman62
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the tricky part is the studs... lots of good methods for that ( @ADFinlayson ) so perhaps a washer and a piece of pvc or pipe to get those out... something heavy and a screwdriver to top off the nut (cut first along edges with razor to prevent chipout), probably some wrenches for the tuners, screwdriver for the screws... that should be about it.  take a photo of your elec cavity then snip the wires.

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The discussion about removing the studs starts here: http://www.projectguitar.com/forums/topic/48888-first-full-build-from-scratch/?do=findComment&comment=577658

Other than that, the tools needed are self explanatory. Screwdrivers for screws, wrenches for hexagons... Just use the right size and shape, a Phillips screwdriver is not similar to a Pozidrive and the Japanese have yet another X slot, not to mention they come in different sizes. A wrong tip can ruin the screw top.

The razor tip is good despite that you're going to sand it down. Chipping paint can take some wood along so better be safe than sorry.

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On 6/28/2019 at 4:54 PM, mistermikev said:

the tricky part is the studs... lots of good methods for that ( @ADFinlayson ) so perhaps a washer and a piece of pvc or pipe to get those out... something heavy and a screwdriver to top off the nut (cut first along edges with razor to prevent chipout), probably some wrenches for the tuners, screwdriver for the screws... that should be about it.  take a photo of your elec cavity then snip the wires.

Thank you. Speaking of the wires, once I snip them do I need to get new wires? I guess I never thought of the hardware outside of the pickups. 

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31 minutes ago, Frankdemariany said:

Thank you. Speaking of the wires, once I snip them do I need to get new wires? I guess I never thought of the hardware outside of the pickups. 

not necessarily.  if you have enough lead, you can just cut them real close to where they connect, then strip it back a bit and reconnect them.  I like to leave some color connected so it's easy to see how they reconnect.

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6 hours ago, mistermikev said:

not necessarily.  if you have enough lead, you can just cut them real close to where they connect, then strip it back a bit and reconnect them.  I like to leave some color connected so it's easy to see how they reconnect.

Thank you. I was traveling before but am now home. Here is a picture of the guitar so everyone can see. I forgot years ago my friend tried to do a poor attempt at drawing Joe Strummer on there. Not sure if that’s as issue when sanding?

DB300905-CD33-44A6-9124-5076617D0F7D.jpeg

F4DF1315-BB1E-46D3-9BF1-2A32CA9E8ABA.jpeg

0A8D69FB-AFF4-4817-B549-EB4D948B8D34.jpeg

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10 hours ago, Frankdemariany said:

Joe Strummer on there. Not sure if that’s as issue when sanding?

Only some more sanding, as he painted a white background for the picture. The stickers may actually be more problematic if you can't get the glue off before sanding. Then again, most solvents work well in removing sticker glue and since you don't have to worry about ruining the paint, well, you can freely use what you have at hand.

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not sure I'd try sanding thru the stickers if that's what you mean.  they'll gum up and ruin lots of sandpaper.  since you are going to refinish anyway... I'd use some goo gone and peal/clean it first.  No obvious chips so... should be pretty good candidate to leave the finish and just paint over. 

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11 hours ago, mistermikev said:

not sure I'd try sanding thru the stickers if that's what you mean.  they'll gum up and ruin lots of sandpaper.  since you are going to refinish anyway... I'd use some goo gone and peal/clean it first.  No obvious chips so... should be pretty good candidate to leave the finish and just paint over. 

Gotcha. And do you think there is a white or grey base under it?

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16 minutes ago, Frankdemariany said:

Gotcha. And do you think there is a white or grey base under it?

i honestly do not know.  not sure why it would matter.  either way I'd put down some primer of a different color, do some sanding to see where hi and low spots are... get it smooth... primer a final time and paint.

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4 hours ago, mistermikev said:

i honestly do not know.  not sure why it would matter.  either way I'd put down some primer of a different color, do some sanding to see where hi and low spots are... get it smooth... primer a final time and paint.

Okay great thanks. Would the epiphone on the headstock be able to be sanded off? 

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13 hours ago, curtisa said:

The 'Epiphone' logo is more likely to be a decal. It should sand off once you get through the clear coat layers. Epiphone are unlikely to have invested time and labour on an inlay job for the logo on the headstock.

I think I stand corrected.  I was thinking of my es295... i think it has inlay anyway... but relooking at this special... likely just paint/decal.  good call curtisa.

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1 minute ago, Frankdemariany said:

Okay great thanks! I have a lot to do but am excited. Is it cool if I post the progress when I begin? 

I'm guessing the general consensus among regulars here would be "go for it". 

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5 hours ago, Frankdemariany said:

Is it cool if I post the progress when I begin?

Rather too many posts than having to tell you that you ruined the instrument in haste.

  • Haha 1
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