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Epiphone Special Repaint


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As with sandpaper, don't try to push the edge deeper than what the burr is. You're scraping, not digging. The edge will dig as deep as it needs with minimal pressure.

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Nothing is ruined! I say that first so you don't have to worry while reading ahead.

To me it looks like you've sanded through some sort of filler or clear primer. That means you've sanded a fraction of a millimetre -  the thickness of a hair - "too much" in those places. As far as I can see you haven't actually changed the shape other than knocked the edge off the heel which is no issue regarding strength.

What to do next depends on how you're going to finish the neck. If you're going to paint it just sand the rough spots flush. I see some irregularity where the fingerboard meets the neck. If you're going to oil the playable area and the heel, try the oil in an invisible place like on the heel. It may or may not stick to the darker stuff. In that case you'll have to sand the neck to match the blemishes.

Regardless of the finish sand along the grain i.e. length vise the entire neck to 400 grit. In the rough areas you may want to start with a coarser paper like 320 or even 240 but since you're not reshaping anything I wouldn't go lower than that. Slide your palms and fingers along the neck to find any uncomfortable spots your eyes can't see. When it feels smooth at 320, wipe it with a damp rag. The moistening serves two purposes: First, the moisture acts as a temporary finish and reveals any scratches. Second, it raises the grain. After it's dry again, sand it with the 400. Repeat the moistening and sanding with 400 a couple of times until you've removed all scratches and no grain raises. Don't apply pressure! Youre just cutting the raising grain flush to the surface similarly to shaving your chin. 

Re oiling: You first apply oil as much as the wood can take and rub it vigorously into the wood. When the oil film seems to stay even in all places, you wipe it all off with a clean dry paper towel or rag. And by all I mean all of it! After some five minutes wipe it clean again as the pores sweat the excess out. Then let it cure for half a day or rather longer and repeat. Any visible oil will never harden, it will only become a sticky mess.

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7 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Nothing is ruined! I say that first so you don't have to worry while reading ahead.

To me it looks like you've sanded through some sort of filler or clear primer. That means you've sanded a fraction of a millimetre -  the thickness of a hair - "too much" in those places. As far as I can see you haven't actually changed the shape other than knocked the edge off the heel which is no issue regarding strength.

What to do next depends on how you're going to finish the neck. If you're going to paint it just sand the rough spots flush. I see some irregularity where the fingerboard meets the neck. If you're going to oil the playable area and the heel, try the oil in an invisible place like on the heel. It may or may not stick to the darker stuff. In that case you'll have to sand the neck to match the blemishes.

Regardless of the finish sand along the grain i.e. length vise the entire neck to 400 grit. In the rough areas you may want to start with a coarser paper like 320 or even 240 but since you're not reshaping anything I wouldn't go lower than that. Slide your palms and fingers along the neck to find any uncomfortable spots your eyes can't see. When it feels smooth at 320, wipe it with a damp rag. The moistening serves two purposes: First, the moisture acts as a temporary finish and reveals any scratches. Second, it raises the grain. After it's dry again, sand it with the 400. Repeat the moistening and sanding with 400 a couple of times until you've removed all scratches and no grain raises. Don't apply pressure! Youre just cutting the raising grain flush to the surface similarly to shaving your chin. 

Re oiling: You first apply oil as much as the wood can take and rub it vigorously into the wood. When the oil film seems to stay even in all places, you wipe it all off with a clean dry paper towel or rag. And by all I mean all of it! After some five minutes wipe it clean again as the pores sweat the excess out. Then let it cure for half a day or rather longer and repeat. Any visible oil will never harden, it will only become a sticky mess.

Okay great to know I didn't ruin it...lol. 

So I have a little more to do with the razor blade up but the headstock. After that I will do the sanding as you said and then have to make a decision about the finish. 

I know I asked this before but if I choose the paint route, it will not cover those right? The staining then wouldn't as well but it will just make the wood look nice overall. I guess I have to decide. When you say "oiling" you meet finishing/staining the wood? 

 

Thank you so much! 

Edited by Frankdemariany
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If you choose the paint route the paint will cover everything with a uniform colour no matter what's under it. The main issue with the blemishes would be getting the wood grain not to show. The main function of the primer is to fill all tiny gaps so you get a very smooth surface to paint on. Even the paint itself acts somewhat of a primer if the wood grain isn't deeply figured and if you sand between layers.

Oiling is another form of finishing. Unlike paint or lacquer (which is paint without colour pigments) oil penetrates into the wood and leaves a more organic feel - almost like bare wood with some shield against dirt and moisture. An oiled neck has less friction so it can make your playing both faster and more accurate than a painted neck.

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On 9/5/2019 at 12:12 PM, Bizman62 said:

If you choose the paint route the paint will cover everything with a uniform colour no matter what's under it. The main issue with the blemishes would be getting the wood grain not to show. The main function of the primer is to fill all tiny gaps so you get a very smooth surface to paint on. Even the paint itself acts somewhat of a primer if the wood grain isn't deeply figured and if you sand between layers.

Oiling is another form of finishing. Unlike paint or lacquer (which is paint without colour pigments) oil penetrates into the wood and leaves a more organic feel - almost like bare wood with some shield against dirt and moisture. An oiled neck has less friction so it can make your playing both faster and more accurate than a painted neck.

Makes sense. And I'm sure the oiling will show those blemishes. 

I'll work on the rest of the neck with the razor this weekend, send pic, and think about the paint vs. oil.

 

Thank you again! 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Looks good so far.

However, there's rough looking spots here and there especially on the sides of the headstock. Try to sand them smooth. A piece of broomstick as a sanding block might be a good tool in those curvy areas. Use it as a spokeshave with both hands so you don't change the angle of the side and try to get some rotating action to your strokes. And remember: No pressure! I'd say 180-240-320-400 grits should do it.

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4 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Looks good so far.

However, there's rough looking spots here and there especially on the sides of the headstock. Try to sand them smooth. A piece of broomstick as a sanding block might be a good tool in those curvy areas. Use it as a spokeshave with both hands so you don't change the angle of the side and try to get some rotating action to your strokes. And remember: No pressure! I'd say 180-240-320-400 grits should do it.

Okay great. I'll do just that and let you know. 

 

Thanks! 

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  • 5 months later...
On 7/30/2019 at 3:04 PM, Bizman62 said:

Exactly. Leave as much wire as you can in the pickup since it's very tricky to replace. cut.thumb.JPG.10ba5bb3c3f53ae3a8c3d76a7e7a616d.JPG

Hello world! It's been a while and I have slacked. I'm finally ready to get back to working on this. I'm going to have a friend sand it with his sander. 

I was looking again at removing the pick ups and just wanted to reiterate so I know I'm doing it correctly. So based on the pictures below, am I cutting where the blue or red meet the white? 

Also where am cutting by the input jack?

I also see a black wire in there. 

Thanks as always for the advice. 

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the blue wire splits into ground and white.  the red wire splits into ground and white.  you want to cut where the white meets a connection on the three way, and  where the ground meets the back of the pot.  do this for red, then do this for blue.  does that make sense?

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Let's start with so simple basics that even I can understand them! My knowledge is limited to following the simple diagrams and trying to avoid cutting where rejoining is impossible.

So... There's basically two types of wire, signal and ground. All grounded wires should follow a chain ending to the sleeve of the jack, often on tops of the pots. Similarly all signal wires will end up to the tip prong of the jack but it can go through various pots and switches. Digging deeper, the wires actually join inside the pickup! Utterly simplified we're talking about a loop inside your guitar with some magic involved to pick up the string vibrations through a chosen pickup - actually a bit similar to our blood vessels!

Pots and switches plus the jack are inexpensive easily replaceable parts compared to pickups. You can tell it by the lumps of solder on the outside. As a rule of thumb if a wire is easy to desolder and resolder on a small component it's pretty safe to either cut or desolder depending on whether you're going to reuse the component or trash it.

Here's my understanding of a basic wiring like yours, pretty similar to the fancier one you referred to. The cloured are signal,  black are ground all centered to the tone pot before going to the jack sleeve.

Oh, by the way, the small black wire you mentioned is the grounding wire from the bridge. It's there to ground the player through the strings to eliminate buzz and hum.

image.png.2df9476f45a9714d1ad142265276219e.png

 

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11 hours ago, mistermikev said:

the blue wire splits into ground and white.  the red wire splits into ground and white.  you want to cut where the white meets a connection on the three way, and  where the ground meets the back of the pot.  do this for red, then do this for blue.  does that make sense?

Thank you. So I think I got it. I would cut where the blue meets the white (shown in the 2nd image) and then cut where ground meets the pot more further inside? 

Did I get that right?

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5 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Let's start with so simple basics that even I can understand them! My knowledge is limited to following the simple diagrams and trying to avoid cutting where rejoining is impossible.

So... There's basically two types of wire, signal and ground. All grounded wires should follow a chain ending to the sleeve of the jack, often on tops of the pots. Similarly all signal wires will end up to the tip prong of the jack but it can go through various pots and switches. Digging deeper, the wires actually join inside the pickup! Utterly simplified we're talking about a loop inside your guitar with some magic involved to pick up the string vibrations through a chosen pickup - actually a bit similar to our blood vessels!

Pots and switches plus the jack are inexpensive easily replaceable parts compared to pickups. You can tell it by the lumps of solder on the outside. As a rule of thumb if a wire is easy to desolder and resolder on a small component it's pretty safe to either cut or desolder depending on whether you're going to reuse the component or trash it.

Here's my understanding of a basic wiring like yours, pretty similar to the fancier one you referred to. The cloured are signal,  black are ground all centered to the tone pot before going to the jack sleeve.

Oh, by the way, the small black wire you mentioned is the grounding wire from the bridge. It's there to ground the player through the strings to eliminate buzz and hum.

image.png.2df9476f45a9714d1ad142265276219e.png

 

Thank you. So I wouldn't need to cut the black wire correct? The grey wire to the input I would cut where it meets the white wire?

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If you're just going to take the pickups and pots and the switch and jack out, cutting is as good as desoldering. Whichever you choose, leave the blue, red and black as long as possible, cutting right at the pot so there'll remain enough slack to redo the wiring. The rest will come off as one harness.Mark the red and blue on the pots and switch so you know where to solder them back.

image.png.25809f9c58eeb3c5a0d92322f6c696fb.png

The jack can be cut right at the prongs or even easier just at where the grey plastic ends. The latter will show how it was soldered so you can redo it easier.

image.png.b8d93d46d8710bc7c2711c8da0406a3b.png

And of course you can just desolder all of the seven spots.

 

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shouldn't need to cut the jack wires as if you unscrew it it will pull right thru the hole.  If you aren't replacing all the wire I'd just put the pots and such in a bag and tape up.  less work later... but follow your own path on this. 

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3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

If you're just going to take the pickups and pots and the switch and jack out, cutting is as good as desoldering. Whichever you choose, leave the blue, red and black as long as possible, cutting right at the pot so there'll remain enough slack to redo the wiring. The rest will come off as one harness.Mark the red and blue on the pots and switch so you know where to solder them back.

image.png.25809f9c58eeb3c5a0d92322f6c696fb.png

The jack can be cut right at the prongs or even easier just at where the grey plastic ends. The latter will show how it was soldered so you can redo it easier.

image.png.b8d93d46d8710bc7c2711c8da0406a3b.png

And of course you can just desolder all of the seven spots.

 

Okay great. Yes I'm going to upgrade the pickups Thank you for the red lines for where to cut. I will do that tonight. 

Do I need to take out the pots? Should I be upgrading those as well. I actually don't know much about those little guys...lol. 

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20 minutes ago, Frankdemariany said:

Do those pots come out easily?

Super easy...

There's two kinds of knobs for the pots. Either there's a tiny screw on the side or the knob just pulls off. Either way, after getting the knob off you'll see a nut. Unscrew the nut and pull the pot off through the control cavity. Same thing with the switch, there's a nut on the outside. The knob of the switch can be threaded (Gibson type) or pushed (Fender type). No tools needed for the knob.

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22 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Super easy...

There's two kinds of knobs for the pots. Either there's a tiny screw on the side or the knob just pulls off. Either way, after getting the knob off you'll see a nut. Unscrew the nut and pull the pot off through the control cavity. Same thing with the switch, there's a nut on the outside. The knob of the switch can be threaded (Gibson type) or pushed (Fender type). No tools needed for the knob.

Thank you both. I will play around with this tonight and post pics. 

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Ok so here you go. I took out the picks up. I'm assuming the grey wire will be left in there during the sanding? 

Those pots seem really in there. Is that essential to change for this project?

Also I took a picture of the front as there are still some things I didn't take off from the bridge and volume knobs. I'm assuming those need to come off for the sanding. Sorry if this was already mentioned...but how is the best way to do that?

 

Thanks! 

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