Jump to content

My ES-137 project


Crusader

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

I just realized how pretty the back is!

Oh yeah I love the back, the last one I did also has a nice back. This timber came from the same piece of wood

...and when I'm spraying this lacquer in combination with the conditions, it dries quite quickly. Therefore the dust bunnies don't have a lot of time to ruin my day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

Must be a regional thing; I haven't heard of a Carnaby either. Down here we just call them Black Cockatoos or Black Cockies, although ours are a different subspecies that have yellow patches rather than the white of the Carnaby.

Honky Nut = just known as a gum nut here, ie the 'nut' of a gum (eucalyptus) tree. 

 

3 hours ago, ScottR said:

I expect a flock of birds that big make one hell of a mess. Probably loud too....

I dunno if the Carnaby is the same, but our Black Cockies are actually gentler than more well-known Sulphur Crested White Cockatoo. Their call is quite polite and they tend to just perch in trees and 'talk' to each other. Urban myth has it that you only see flocks of Black Cockies flying overhead ahead of approaching stormy weather.

The SCW Cockatoos, in contrast have a raucous screech that sounds not unlike Hollywood representations of flying Pterodactyl dinosaurs, and they aren't afraid to tear up the bark of tree branches in search of insects, making a huge mess in the process.

Thread derailment complete, carry on...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, ScottR said:

I had to look up Carnabys and honky nuts

Same here! Searching for "carnaby" didn't give anything other than the street in London and a family with that name. Finally "Carnaby bird" revealed the secret: The name is "Carnaby's" or rather "Carnaby's black cockatoo". Funny how much a tiny little thing like an apostrophe can change!

And yes, the levitating guitar looks cool!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I could have just called them "Big Black Cockies" LOL

Yes they are loud and messy. The sound they make reminds me of the movie "The Birds" When they are in the trees its raining gum nuts and it makes quite a din on the workshop tin roof

There are two species around here, white chests and red chests and they are endangered. There are people who do a lot to protect them. I think they spend most of their time up north. I have never seen so many of them congregate in our yard, so yeah I was thinking we are in for stormy weather (do do do looking out my back door!)

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point taken

Well it was raining gum nuts on the shed roof again today and I thought it was 28’s but it turned out to be Pink Gallahs, which are quite smaller than Carnabys

I can’t think how to make a joke out of that, but even if I could I better not go there...

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/1/2020 at 1:45 AM, Bizman62 said:

Unless the Carnaby family has nothing to say against it......

It certainly sounds better than another idea I had, which was "yES" - this idea came out of writing "My ES" in notes to differentiate between my Gibson, and just taking the "y"

Imagine me saying to people "Hey I will play you a tune, I get some good tones out of my yES"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay so nobody laughed at that one, never mind life goes on!

So I got around to drawing up a wiring diagram for this ES type guitar. I like to keep things simple and with this one I've decided to go with the option of swapping the coils on the Neck pickup rather than out of phase

If you have out of phase you get the other coil but I'm not all that taken by that sound, and when its combined with single coil I like it even less. But anyway nothing is set in stone yet

I have the Neck black wire going to the Coil Split before the Coil Swap but I'm not sure if its necessary. I could just have it joining the white wire at the middle terminal of the Coil Swap but I think its better this way. Any suggestions or point of view about this?

cheers

731979114_2020_05_05ES-137.thumb.jpg.d202647b83b9cd0206db0cc55ee75692.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

So an update to this troubled build. Here it is being polished looking good, then discovered cracks in the lacquer

1997155021_IMG_6051ESpolish.jpg.dbaf82fc62b4ff9216d41a95e5b636bd.jpg

1889602123_IMG_6125MyEScrackedlacquer.jpg.10a41990aec13885bc9ae71149f2925f.jpg

 

I concluded there were numerous reasons for the lacquer to go like this and it was suggested to leave it and spray again later but I decided to crack on with it and sanded it back to bare wood again. Here's a couple of shots and I almost decided to leave it natural rather than stain again..........

IMG_6241.thumb.jpg.043039c689b8f86eba980d92eaffe6aa.jpg

 

From this angle it has a cool natural appeal

252088137_IMG_6244ES137baretop.jpg.f901e0aa91ed093caecffcf0dd1b3f16.jpg

 

But this photo convinced me to put the stain back on again it just looks awesome

248473437_IMG_5918ESpolishing.jpg.9429e3e2706074ad5d67df0da8f4c6d2.jpg

 

I tried repairing the cracks...

518686293_IMG_6089EScrackrepair.jpg.8aa2323708f6145bf559c1e294dc632f.jpg

 

Later on I noticed there were cracks elsewhere in the finish. The one in the base you would think is a scratch but I studied it hard and its definitely a crack

IMG_6216.jpg.1dd182750c23f965a174a5220907d74f.jpg

 

Not going for a Relic finish sorry!

137337212_IMG_6256ESfretboardcracks.jpg.efa0f26bc1e8a72ab77e9cf9adb1c114.jpg

 

The crack in the base gave me a clue as to the main problem (spraying too thick on first coat) I remember I sprayed it over and over because its an area that sometimes gets neglected

 

So the problems I concluded that caused the cracks were;

Air pressure too low and spraying outdoors made it dry too quickly, which made me spray too thick to get a wet coat

Spraying too late in the afternoon and storing in uninsulated tin shed overnight where the temperature drops too quickly

And lastly, the timber is probably not suitable for guitar tops and needs time to adjust to its new shape

 

Thanks to you guys for your comments and suggestions - it takes a while but eventually the penny drops. I sprayed it again today (inside under lights) so it will be hanging in the shed for a while

........the BIG shed which is insulated!

Edited by Crusader
neglected details
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to mention that I remembered to spray slower passes as you suggested. I used to always be scared of getting runs but now I'm using Nitro its not as big an issue. Thinking about it, I suppose I'm subconsciously copying how they spray on the Youtubes I've watched. As for the reason for the cracks, out of all the suggestions I think it was a case of "All Of The Above"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Crusader said:

 As for the reason for the cracks, out of all the suggestions I think it was a case of "All Of The Above"

Great shame about the cracks because it looked great otherwise!

All I know is that folks who do this on purpose to 'tastefully relic' a nitro finish do often pop it in the fridge or freezer for a spell and 'pop' instant crazing.  So entirely possible that the drop in temperature as the finish was naturally contracting in its curing sounds logical as a primary cause. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

All I know is that folks who do this on purpose to 'tastefully relic' a nitro finish do often pop it in the fridge or freezer for a spell and 'pop' instant crazing.  So entirely possible that the drop in temperature as the finish was naturally contracting in its curing sounds logical as a primary cause. 

Thats what I did with the metal tele build, wrapped in plastic and stuck it in the deep freeze for a couple days. When i took it out, I hit it with a air dryer and big crazing appeared. They were so fine, you couldn't feel them. I've read about how they can seal themselves, so when you are trying to get them for effect, it's annoying. In this case, I believe @Crusader and my Black Queen had similar issues. His had the added temperature differences, but both of ours had heavy spraying with too thick of undercoats, and probably uneven curing stresses. I can say that with mine, I could definitely feel the crazing, and more appeared as I sanded the top. Mine was also only on the top, which makes me wonder about wood moisture?

Blush eraser, thinner, nor a thinner/acetone mixture did little when applied to the crazing, even after excavating them wider. Just before I stripped it to wood and re-dyed and re-sprayed, I  procured some Cellusolve as recommended by Frank Ford in the Frets article on fixing crazing, and to my surprise it actually worked. There was quite a bit of drop filling and leveling after, and it's not 100%, but probably 98-99%.

High fives to @Crusader for the patience and resolve for that redo.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/6/2020 at 10:37 PM, komodo said:

High fives to @Crusader for the patience and resolve for that redo.

Thank you for your kind words

Well its going to take even more patience now. Tonight I strung it up and did the nut slots and played it a bit. It sounded quite nice and was very playable. Then I did the saddle slots and when I re-tuned the last sting I heard a loud CRACK!

But at least the Lacquer isn't cracked!

I'm not surprised this has happened seeing how thin the top was. I was relying on the thickness going down the centre but the pickups took too much out. I have already contemplated what I will do in this situation. Replace the top? Is that possible? I've got ideas but on the other hand if I can strengthen the top along the pickup area I might be able to save it. I just don't know how I would get pieces of wood in there long enough

 

Here she is lookin good....

IMG_6297.thumb.jpg.cb8b7c10abf64b7ced1bc1a46c2c3d99.jpg

 

And then kaplunk

IMG_6300.thumb.jpg.f56dee1a8cd8389cff5a1ca02474b464.jpg

 

As I said I was half expecting this to happen so I was prepared and I'm not devastated

I will get on with other things and maybe something genius will come to mind

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In violins they use things called sound posts which are just loose dowels between the top and the bottom to spread the pressure from the bridge partially to the bottom. They're usually snuck in through the f-hole but you might be able do that through the pickup cavity as well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ScottR said:

This guitar is possessed.

SR

LOL you’re absolutely right!

6 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

In violins they use things called sound posts.....

Yes I’ve heard of some guitars using them, trouble is they dampen resonance. Not a problem with a violin because they use a bow. And you know the sound of a violin being picked...? they go “plunk”

i should be able to glue in something to strengthen it up, under or beside the bridge pickup

“Its just a flesh wound”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Plunk indeed... Then again, a violin is very small compared to a guitar. The place where you pluck also makes a big difference like shown here:

Last but not least, a sound post is just a loose bit of broomstick which you can easily remove if it doesn't do the trick. Wouldn't hurt trying as it only takes five minutes to make.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Plunk indeed... Then again, a violin is very small compared to a guitar...

.....a sound post..... you can easily remove if it doesn't do the trick.......

Interesting video it sounds like "slap bass" LOL

I got around to having a look at it today and it seems the best way to reinforce the top is right under the bridge pickup which gets in the way when you're installing the wiring harness

So just for now I made a block to act like a post as you suggested and it works! It does however dampen the sound. Its not as loud and its a bit dull, no top end. I know luthiers sometimes spend a lot of time putting a post in a violin because it has to be in just the right spot, so I don't know how I would go with that (I wanted this guitar to be more accoustic than electric)

Oh and another thing, I discovered what I think made the "crack" - the glue joint at the end of the neck where it connects to the underneath of the top. So I think the top is okay, its not broken!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Crusader said:

So I think the top is okay, its not broken!

Yay!

Also, nice to hear that the post works, sort of. As you say the right spot is important. Also the thickness matters and logically thinking the material may have an impact to the sound as well. It's been a long time since I last have watched a Jerry Rosa video, but this one pretty much tells how he installs it as well as discussing the length, thickness and location. There's some ten minutes of fiddling with the bridge in between the sound post procedure so keep watching until you've seen the whole thing. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...