Brian Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Black Ice Over Drive with a Tweed Amp Crunch 12 Way Guitar Switch Modification Mad Wiring Blend Knob Modification Sustainer Modification Thank You Ansil and Please PM me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 those are really good. i didnt actually realise that that was all a black ice distortion chip was lol. btw im not too sure how the sustainer thing works. is the little piezo speaker attatched to the back of one of the pickups or is it on a seperate pickup?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otgordin Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I think the next mod I am gonna do is the sustainer. I had no idea it was so simple. Couple of questions tho. 1. What is the rating of the cap? 2. Does the Op-Amp need -9V to come to one of the pins? 3. How, where and to what is the piezo connected? 4. What model of small RS piezo buzzer is it... Radioshack Piezo Buzzers 5. What kind of switch is this and how is it wired? Sorry about asking so many questions, I just wanna be sure before I go ahead and do this. Thanks for posting what looks to be an awesome mod. -Vadim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 1 and 2 are sorta linked the Chip isnt an Op-Amp as such but an LM386, its basically a 0.3 Watt audio amplifier in a chip. they dont need a negetive supply since just so long as they have 0 Volts and +9 Volts they will auto bias so that the output is always sitting in the middle of supply voltage. the capacitor is a decoupling cap to stop the DC signal from getting through to the piezo buzzer. the cap value doesnt matter too much i think but bear in mind that a lower cap value will attenuate the treble less 3) the piezo is just connected to the output of the chip and to ground however where it is actually placed im not sure either 4) dont know about this since id need to find out where the piezo goes 5)the switch is just a normal mini switch that would be connected to the output after the pickup selector tho i think that most other sustainers (sustainiac and fernandez for example) have some wierd switching so that certain pickups are on when you turn the sustainer on hope thats helpful, i may go to my school electronics labs and have a play with this idea at some point lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otgordin Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Thanks johnyg, Let me know how the trial goes. Do you think that RS would have the chip cause then I could try it out this weekend. I wish I had brought my electric to college, cause then I would be able to try it out tonight in the circuits lab. By my estimation this would be a <$10 mod, which would be friggin' awesome if it works. -Vadim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 RS would almost certainlly have the chip. its a standard chip made my a lot of companies much like the bog standard 741 op-amp. you may also want to look at the LM380 as well, its basically the same as the 386 except that its a bit more powerful (386 is 0.3 watt amp and the 380 is 1 watt) atm im looking into what piezo speakers i can getover here in the UK, if i find anything useful ill chuck it up here for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otgordin Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I just checked the stock of my local radio-shack on their website and they have the lm 386 in stock. So i think i am gonna prototype it out this weekend. I should be fine if I just hook onto my pickup leads with aligator clips and do the prototying on a breadboard. I am still a little confused as to the purpose and placement of the piezo tho. -Vadim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otgordin Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I think i figured this out. I don't know if my revelation is gonna be news to anyone but i figured i'd post it just in case people like me were wondering what this circuit does. Pretty much it takes the signal from your pickups, amplifies it, and then sends it to a piezo element glued to the underside of the bridge pickup. Does anyone have any idea how well this will work? Cause I have no idea without trying it. -Vadim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 hi all, i saw the sustainer link there, and am interested in making one, but wanted to know which pickup to mount the piezo sounder on, and if it mattered. Would CA or epoxy be best for mounting? have you tried this circuit? would this work on my active pickups? thanks for your time! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 The sustainer mod seems interesting since it doesn't seem to require replacing a pickup by a sustainer unit but, as was previously noted, a few more details would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I hope some of you that build the sustainer will say how well it works. Can a sustainer like this be used with the amp at low volume, and little or no distortion being used ? Hope it can work on a neck position single coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 sorry folks i didnt' know that this forum was here,, hmm guess i should pay more attention. as far as the sustainor goes yes it is best to put the piezo as close as possible to the pickup.. now if you have the room you can use a small speaker instead of the piezo. i chose piezo for space. not nescecarily for effeciency. basically it works like this.. all pickups have some sort of degree of being microphonic. it just depends on how hard you hit them with signal, and what freq range that signal is.. sometimes this has only worked on single coils. other times it has worked on every pickup.. i have done this mod around 13 times or better. personally i use a 100uf cap or better, basically you trade off bass for batterie life. you need to have some bass in there to move the speaker. but not too much cause it will eat your batterie. you could probally get by with a 1uf cap. you can also use the stock tone control pot, and just put a 1k resistor across the outer lugs to convert it to a 1k pot. now to answer your questions .. soapbarstrat Posted on Jan 30 2004, 12:46 AM I hope some of you that build the sustainer will say how well it works. Can a sustainer like this be used with the amp at low volume, and little or no distortion being used ? Hope it can work on a neck position single coil. >>>> yes ti works great on singles MikeB Posted on Jan 29 2004, 04:52 PM hi all, i saw the sustainer link there, and am interested in making one, but wanted to know which pickup to mount the piezo sounder on, and if it mattered. Would CA or epoxy be best for mounting? have you tried this circuit? would this work on my active pickups? thanks for your time! Mike >>>>> depends on the actives.. i had to use a small speaker instead fo the piezo for my emgs when i first did this. but it seemed to work great on them was a little noisier than passive pickups but i think that is partially because i didnt' adjust the gain either. i left it wide open. epoxy is fine. otgordin Posted on Jan 29 2004, 03:22 PM I think i figured this out. I don't know if my revelation is gonna be news to anyone but i figured i'd post it just in case people like me were wondering what this circuit does. Pretty much it takes the signal from your pickups, amplifies it, and then sends it to a piezo element glued to the underside of the bridge pickup. Does anyone have any idea how well this will work? Cause I have no idea without trying it. >>>>> it works great as a diy alternative to an actual sustainor. i dont' claim that this will revolutionize the world,, just gives an alternatvie to forking out a couple hundred dollars or however much they cost. good on ya for figureing it out. -Vadim JohnnyG Posted on Jan 29 2004, 02:18 PM RS would almost certainlly have the chip. its a standard chip made my a lot of companies much like the bog standard 741 op-amp. you may also want to look at the LM380 as well, its basically the same as the 386 except that its a bit more powerful (386 is 0.3 watt amp and the 380 is 1 watt) the lm380 is actually a 2.5 watt chip depending on what voltage you put it at. also you really wouldnt' want to use this one without a preamp before it as it has an internal gain of 34 which really doesn't do much in a circuit like this. you could use a feedback loop resistor but it really is kind of like putting a luggage rack on a volkswagen you can do it but comeon.. lol. the lm386n-3 is a 660mw amplifier when the gain is at 200 which would be a perfect bridge between pins 1 and eight. 1. What is the rating of the cap?>>>> cap is anywhere really from a 1uf to 330uf 2. Does the Op-Amp need -9V to come to one of the pins? lm386 single supply mini poweramp 3. How, where and to what is the piezo connected?>>>>>it is connected to the back of the pickup you desire to put it on. 4. What model of small RS piezo buzzer is it...>>> that i dont' remember sorry but you can use a little speaker if you have the room. 5. What kind of switch is this and how is it wired?>>> the switch on the top right??? if so it is your standard pickup selector it doesnt effect the sustainor unit at all, i have shown this unit to be on all the time. but you can add whichever switch you desire to do to make it come in and out. i would use a push pull dpdt pot personally. JohnnyG >>>back of the pickup. you wish it to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 those are really good. i didnt actually realise that that was all a black ice distortion chip was lol. btw im not too sure how the sustainer thing works. is the little piezo speaker attatched to the back of one of the pickups or is it on a seperate pickup?? the black ice isn't a chip by theway it is just encapsulated in a black probally resin material with some lamp black thrown in. similar in looks to the emg pickups. by the way if you like emg spc controls.. this will blow your mind its based off of craigandertons easy tonecontrols.. and essentially it can be modded to be a mxr distortion pedal. too funy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otgordin Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 One more question before i run off to that evil shack of radios.... Assuming that i am crazy-gluing the piezo to the back of the pickup, do i glue the copper or the ceramic side to the pickup (should i even take it out of its casing) Of course, I will post pics of everything as soon as its installed and ready to go. That should be around sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 it would be best to glue the speaker side to the metal side. but dont' glue the actual cone just the rim... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I guess it would be a "no no" to have a wall outlet power supply hooked up, so there's no worry about draining the batteries down too soon. Wondering how the magnet on a small speaker might affect the pickup when the sustainer function is not being used. A magnet that small won't hurt the pickups ? I always hear to keep magnets away from your pickups. But a small walkman speaker would be a good size. Black ice : I had assumed that they got that name because they dip the diodes into black resin that's in a small cube mold. Like a mini-ice cube. Maybe they even use some kind of mini-ice cube trays. After they're dry, they twist the tray and the hard resin cubes all pop out. That's what you're paying for. For them taking the time to twist those cubes out of the mold. Clear would look more cool. Or add a bunch of colored glitter to make it really look like a little "magic box" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 you coudl do it with a wall wart. i would be carefull though... or use a rechargable batterie mounted int he guitar you could recharge through the guitar jack.. ie a stereo jack. the black ice is decently cool i am imlimenting an idea based around it. only there is two version one is active but it uses a little car alarm remote 12v batterie. i am awaiting the diodes ont he other ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Wondering how the magnet on a small speaker might affect the pickup when the sustainer function is not being used. A magnet that small won't hurt the pickups ? I always hear to keep magnets away from your pickups. Piezo speakers don't have magnets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Piezo speakers don't have magnets. I was wondering if piezo speakers had magnets. The walkman speaker seemed like a good idea, after he said it could be a normal small speaker, too. I got some of those old WM speakers still from the 80's . Would be good if they could finally be used for something. I wonder if the black ice is patented. If people buy those, then one of you guys could make your own version. Use the lower watt diodes, then advertise it as being able to be used with lower output pickups that the other black ice won't work well with. make it look like a small pair of fuzzy dice, and call it that. it would sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I wonder if the black ice is patented. I doubt it, nothing on the directions at all about any patents or copyrights.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I hadn't even read the other thread, so I didn't know you were making these. I hope you do fine with your version of it. I am curious about what exact "schottkey" or whatever diodes are best for pickups around 7-9K, just so I can make one for myself. I got all these diodes, including some that seem to be color coded with no writing. All kinds of glass ones. Some say 'NEC' but I guess that's just the brand. Come up with a cool looking mold design. It will help people want to buy it. You already have a name, but other names pop in my head as well, like "crunch cube" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Well I made a few names up like fire stick and such. When I finally get it down pat I'll probably call it something like Blue Ice since I have the molds now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 i like the hotstick. i think its cool currently i am trying to rectify the ac signal using small schotkys and a step up transfomer before that to generate enough current to drive a very low power transistor which in turn would power a diode ladder to power a medium power transistor. after some studying i htink it can be done. still looking into it though. this is a block layotu of what i am doing anyway i ahve been up all night and no time to draw schematic http://geocities.com/austenfantanio/DIODE.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefm Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hmmm...if you're looking for names you could use Mojo stick...if you you were looking for mild innuendo that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJPUC Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 this may be a stupid question....but can you list the material needed for the sustainer? thanx so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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