Project: Earthstone

[Prostheta]

That's actually one of my bench hooks rather than a depth stop. I grabbed the most conveniently-sized pieces of thick squared plywood to hand and used that. I imagine that a depth stop would be less useful than one might imagine, since the best stop for me is a visual indicator of where the endpoint should be. If a depth stop would work out more useful in some instances, then sure. What you have seen here (in spite of it not being that!) might simply inspire you to use one elsewhere in other jigs or operations. That's always a good thing!

[Bizman62]

No wonder it looked like a bench hook!

Also, as I thought over it further it became obvious that since you're pushing against the spinning direction getting the volute in the right place only requires a  mark of sorts for eyeballing.

[Prostheta]

15 hours ago, mistermikev said:

love the headstock design

It's actually a common Ibanez design used since the 70s which is often seen on (I think) their modern acoustics and maybe archtops. The inspiration (I use that word as a stretch since it's a straight out copy....) is the Ibanez Darkstone which - like everything I want to build - was never available in the trim or configuration I wanted. All paint over cheaper woods, same as most Ibanez in the low-mid Chinese range. Whilst most of them were also Sapele or "Mahogany", you've got to question what is under that paint. Paranoia? Plus I like a bit of wood porn here and there. Not over the top burls, figuring and the like, but nice appointments. The wood can speak for itself, so can the intricate details here and there.

Which reminds me....I have some Kingwood pickup rings to make....the original rings on the Ibanez were a nice break from the norm, however I think I can imagineer up something equally individual for this build.

[Prostheta]

5 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

No wonder it looked like a bench hook!

Also, as I thought over it further it became obvious that since you're pushing against the spinning direction getting the volute in the right place only requires a  mark of sorts for eyeballing.

Totally. Better than *with* the direction eh? 

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

It's actually a common Ibanez design used since the 70s which is often seen on (I think) their modern acoustics and maybe archtops. The inspiration (I use that word as a stretch since it's a straight out copy....) is the Ibanez Darkstone which - like everything I want to build - was never available in the trim or configuration I wanted. All paint over cheaper woods, same as most Ibanez in the low-mid Chinese range. Whilst most of them were also Sapele or "Mahogany", you've got to question what is under that paint. Paranoia? Plus I like a bit of wood porn here and there. Not over the top burls, figuring and the like, but nice appointments. The wood can speak for itself, so can the intricate details here and there.

Which reminds me....I have some Kingwood pickup rings to make....the original rings on the Ibanez were a nice break from the norm, however I think I can imagineer up something equally individual for this build.

now that you mention it... I think that was used on one of my fav vintage ibanez.  I love ibanez. 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/30117891243239959/

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-photo/studio-still-life-of-a-1978-ibanez-musician-mc500-guitar-news-photo/102624338

 

 

[Prostheta]

As far as I understand it, those were built at the same time and on the same line as the fantastic Roland GR-808 guitars. MIDI part aside, that was one of the largest sounding rhythm instruments I've played short of a 12-string. Whilst the whole "tonewood" thing is a silly argument on both sides, there is a lot to be said for a well-made instrument. The build of those was phenomenal, as were guitars coming out of Japan (see Matsumoku) back in the late 70s and early 80s. I really don't think anything compares any more.

I know we're veering off subject here, however I recall that more than a couple of big American manufacturers bought into the Japanese manufacturing thing back in the 80s as an "affordable alternative" only to find that they produced instruments better than US-build and at better prices. The one that springs to mind the most for me is Jackson, who soon shuttering their factory over there only for it to rebrand itself as Caparison. I'd love to visit Ochanomizu/Chiyoda simply to geek out and do some era tourism.

[ADFinlayson]

Just caught up with this build @Prostheta, while I'm jealous of some of your tools, big band saw table saw etc that make some jobs a lot easier, the work looks really clean and shows some real skill. My builds never look that neat early on in the process like yours is. I had also adopted your technique for cutting a slither off the back of the body to make the control cover, it's a neat idea Look forward to seeing it come together. 

[mistermikev]

58 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

As far as I understand it, those were built at the same time and on the same line as the fantastic Roland GR-808 guitars. MIDI part aside, that was one of the largest sounding rhythm instruments I've played short of a 12-string. Whilst the whole "tonewood" thing is a silly argument on both sides, there is a lot to be said for a well-made instrument. The build of those was phenomenal, as were guitars coming out of Japan (see Matsumoku) back in the late 70s and early 80s. I really don't think anything compares any more.

I know we're veering off subject here, however I recall that more than a couple of big American manufacturers bought into the Japanese manufacturing thing back in the 80s as an "affordable alternative" only to find that they produced instruments better than US-build and at better prices. The one that springs to mind the most for me is Jackson, who soon shuttering their factory over there only for it to rebrand itself as Caparison. I'd love to visit Ochanomizu/Chiyoda simply to geek out and do some era tourism.

i have a jem 77fp... and a gaki sr890.  those are both a bit later - late 80's early 90s.  it's my humble o that it'd be impossible to build anything 'better' than either in terms of playing.  they have their quirks as the 890 is pencil thin and freq needs adjustment... the jem isn't them most 'beefy' of tones imo... but afa a fantastic playing instrument... hard to top either.  jem neck is also pencil thin and I've adjusted it 1 time in the 20 years I've had it. have owned a few lawsuit les pauls that were late 70's and def a fantastic instrument.  Idk if I'd say better than any gibson made... but certainly as good as if not better than the gibsons from that period.  I've also owned a gibson sg90... when gibson was trying to compete with ibanez/jackson... and that guitar for me was the absolute pinnacle of quality.  personally think any brand is capable of greatness and certainly fender and gibson have had their moments... but they are equally and possibly more capable of expensive crap.  I know of some cheap ibanez crap... but I don't know of any expensive ibanez crap. 

[Prostheta]

Japanese instruments are a definite product of their engineering, however they can lack a bit of individuality and "soul" on some level because of the high manufacturing level, but they're still made and finished by humans. The good stuff really has care and love poured in, and no, I don't recall any high end dogs either. Strange choices maybe, but still world-class stuff. It's still true to this day, that if you want an amazing American-made Les Paul, buy a Japanese one. 

[mistermikev]

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Japanese instruments are a definite product of their engineering, however they can lack a bit of individuality and "soul" on some level because of the high manufacturing level, but they're still made and finished by humans. The good stuff really has care and love poured in, and no, I don't recall any high end dogs either. Strange choices maybe, but still world-class stuff. It's still true to this day, that if you want an amazing American-made Les Paul, buy a Japanese one. 

right on.  never hear of orville sueing anyone hehe.

[komodo]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

right on.  never hear of orville sueing anyone hehe.

Orville was managed by Gibson.

[mistermikev]

12 minutes ago, komodo said:

Orville was managed by Gibson.

I am aware... they also do not exist anymore... and that was 'sposed to be the "hehe" part... alas my humor isn't nearly as funny outside my head.

it's quite ironic because (and correct me if I'm wrong) gakki is connected to the origins of the ibanez lawsuit era models.  so connecting the dots, gibson sued them, then made them produce guitars for gibson, that have become arguably more popular than gibsons.

[Prostheta]

Legacy is forever, money is just a shareholder thing. CEOs have to make decisions that benefit shareholders and not necessarily the company, employees, products or customers. Gibson Brands I think it's now called. The clue is in the name!

[mistermikev]

22 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Legacy is forever, money is just a shareholder thing. CEOs have to make decisions that benefit shareholders and not necessarily the company, employees, products or customers. Gibson Brands I think it's now called. The clue is in the name!

honestly can't blame them.  actually, it's kind of boss.  "no you can't build those!  now build them for us"!  honestly gibson gets a bad rap, but one could def argue they earned it.  just wish they'd bring back the spirit they had when they came up with the sg90 and the like.  that steinberger trem had a ton of potential and those guitars in that series for me, are some of the best looking gibsons ever made.  guess I'll have to make my own!

[Prostheta]

Go for it. A good instrument is one that inspires and/or enables the player, so if it has something to speak to you then why not? The same applies to any manufactured or self-built instrument. If it sparks something, that's the magic right there. Every build I approach has something in it that I want to bring out in some way, which I guess is the fundamentals of design. I love the rawer wooden sort of build with less finish choking out the wood from doing its thing. The only way I think I could improve on my go-to guitar would be to have the same exact instrument with a lighter finish and perhaps a solid top rather than veneer. And no central single coil. Even the trem (which I don't use) has become an irrevocable part of its feel.

I digress. As always.

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

Go for it. A good instrument is one that inspires and/or enables the player, so if it has something to speak to you then why not? The same applies to any manufactured or self-built instrument. If it sparks something, that's the magic right there. Every build I approach has something in it that I want to bring out in some way, which I guess is the fundamentals of design. I love the rawer wooden sort of build with less finish choking out the wood from doing its thing. The only way I think I could improve on my go-to guitar would be to have the same exact instrument with a lighter finish and perhaps a solid top rather than veneer. And no central single coil. Even the trem (which I don't use) has become an irrevocable part of its feel.

I digress. As always.

and boy do you bring it out!  tru dat my friend!

[Norris]

It's kind of what I've been doing with my build - take a "basic" Gibson model and build it as well as I can. Hopefully with the level of hand crafting you can't get on a production line. Of course, we'll have to hear what it sounds like when it's done...

[Prostheta]

Agreed. I think this has more in common with a Les Paul Special than anything else. The pickup arrangement will be very much non-Gibson though; a three-way blade, single volume and tone. The tone capacitor will be wired so that it affects only the neck pickup. What I'd like to achieve is that "tone pot on zero" flute-y sound on tap whilst not affecting the bridge.

Take anything else from them that you want, Gibson have pretty much branded their name onto many otherwise "standard" geometry configurations, tones and electronics combinations. Shame they're a shadow of what they used to be. The custom shop still seems to have plenty of mojo and respect, but their standards aren't worth shit any more.

[Prostheta]

Just a note to keep this project pinned and show what the way forward will be....hopefully. I still need to acquire some key hardware and make some tools, which in this mid-pandemic layoff is a low priority. Money is super tight and we only have savings to see us through the summer. Bummer.

Anyway. The bridge pickup is going to be a bit of a task. I don't seem to be able to find covered SD TB-11s this side of the pond, meaning that I either need to snag an uncovered TB-11 and solder a cover myself or get one direct. Turns out that a TB cover costs maybe €30-35 from the US anyway, so I might as well buy one finished up. It's easy to find a standard-spaced covered SH-1n though.

I've decided to make a bending iron from a length of allthread and two pieces of steel pipe, heated with a torch. This is about as simple as it can get, and since I don't expect to be making a habit of forming wooden binding or other thin stuff, a full-on iron isn't necessary. The other option would be mashing a barbecue lighter element into the pipe, which is probably about the same cost as a small torch. One for another time.

The slightly smaller than most headstock doesn't fit the footprint of vintage Kluson-type 15:1 tuners, so I think they'll end up being a set of tulip button Gotoh SG301s. I'm going to check the look by modelling them up first. My first choice would be 3x3 Hipshot open gear tuners, but again this boils down to availability and cost.

I'm about at that stage where I can consider doing work on the neck profile, however I should pass the heel face through a table saw to establish a good parallel flat face at the right depth. I don't want to start adding in any profile until the fingerboard is glued up, as the lower flat face is important for getting even clamping pressure.

[mistermikev]

On 5/21/2020 at 1:17 AM, Prostheta said:

Just a note to keep this project pinned and show what the way forward will be....hopefully. I still need to acquire some key hardware and make some tools, which in this mid-pandemic layoff is a low priority. Money is super tight and we only have savings to see us through the summer. Bummer.

Anyway. The bridge pickup is going to be a bit of a task. I don't seem to be able to find covered SD TB-11s this side of the pond, meaning that I either need to snag an uncovered TB-11 and solder a cover myself or get one direct. Turns out that a TB cover costs maybe €30-35 from the US anyway, so I might as well buy one finished up. It's easy to find a standard-spaced covered SH-1n though.

I've decided to make a bending iron from a length of allthread and two pieces of steel pipe, heated with a torch. This is about as simple as it can get, and since I don't expect to be making a habit of forming wooden binding or other thin stuff, a full-on iron isn't necessary. The other option would be mashing a barbecue lighter element into the pipe, which is probably about the same cost as a small torch. One for another time.

The slightly smaller than most headstock doesn't fit the footprint of vintage Kluson-type 15:1 tuners, so I think they'll end up being a set of tulip button Gotoh SG301s. I'm going to check the look by modelling them up first. My first choice would be 3x3 Hipshot open gear tuners, but again this boils down to availability and cost.

I'm about at that stage where I can consider doing work on the neck profile, however I should pass the heel face through a table saw to establish a good parallel flat face at the right depth. I don't want to start adding in any profile until the fingerboard is glued up, as the lower flat face is important for getting even clamping pressure.

well brother... here's to hoping things get back to normal for you and many other folks who are laid off right now. 

idk what that strange symbol next to the 30 up there is... but sd covers are outrageously priced!  I'm told its because they use some magic metal that doesn't interfere with the tone molecules dancing on your strings... and they have to be blessed by the pope to be effective... but I can't confirm. 

anywho, may the gods smile in your favor and find you the hardware you need... looking fwd to seeing some more pics!

[Bizman62]

3 hours ago, mistermikev said:

idk what that strange symbol next to the 30 up there is

It's the Euro sign. You know, similar to dollar but more valuable.

[mistermikev]

10 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

It's the Euro sign. You know, similar to dollar but more valuable.

it was humor... you may have heard it from me b4... but not the first time my humor has been accused of being, how do you say... 'not at all funny'.  hehe.

oh, snap... just saw the 'but more valuable'... you got me gooood.  nice one.

[curtisa]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

It was humor

As @Bizman62 may well know, US 'humor' is also known to be vastly inferior to UK/EU 'humour'. The extra 'u' makes it far funnier.

[mistermikev]

I think you may have cracked the code there.  for years I've been trying to find their secret... and it all boils down to u...

[Prostheta]

Salty conversations, woo! Anyway. Not sure if SD covers are special, however the wider trembucker pole spacing is needed. I've no idea why wide spacing isn't the standard rather than the exception any more. But hey. The other option on the table is a set of Fluence Classics. Not my first choice since I really dig the SD Custom Custom's VH type of crunch and feel, and the 59 in the neck. I'm sure these can be dialled in to produce similar feels from the instrument they're fitted to, even if not the same specific tone. Feel means a lot, but the tone produces that mental feedback loop if that makes sense.

Having the pickups on the bench makes a huge difference in making the pickup rings. I'd rather manufacture them from the physical item, however I'm certain that Fishman's dimension specs are on the nose.