Jump to content

Voting for March 2020's Guitar Of The Month is open - VOTE HERE!

Sign in to follow this  

Recommended Posts

The Rose

I never had a nohead guitar.   So I got a kit for a clone of a steinberger custom.   A little over $100 on ebay...

I3250-1-dd69-l6fm.thumb.jpg.e579b31e7d45103206d0a6ece985ee26.jpg

 

I wanted to make it look traditional, despite the nohead design.    So i was going for a french polished mahogany Steinway grand piano type finish....

496132092_th(4).jpg.04c9dccf4663cec35234b0f07fe3d1b2.jpg 

 

I was using Keda water based dyes....

118010069_th(5).jpg.66c4f436f4d39f94a82cd7cd2c79ace8.jpg

 

But this was my first time using them.     I started with red.      But it was not nearly strong enough.      Once you start to stain a piece and its not what you expected, you have to finish then re-stain, or stop and sand back.    Stopping and sanding back can be a lot of work.    So my first coat of "red" turned out this color:

1449932604_th(6).jpg.bc107b27461141990efe9acac79273ef.jpg

That's right, i had a bubble gum pink guitar!   Oops!

OK -  try a coat of purple over it.   Try to get it more burgundy.    I still hadn't figured out i wasn't using enough dye powder, and my purple turned out more like lavender.   Also, i may have not waited long enough between coats, as the purple did not go on as uniformly as the "red".   There was streaking for some reason.    I let it dry overnight.   The next day i looked at it and decided that while it was not at all what i intended, it did look sort of cool - sort of a purple - pink - rose color.  So i decided to run with it    Instead of a traditional looking nohead guitar, I would build "The Rose"....

IMG_20200307_021151.thumb.jpg.17db01dcad2f3103ab9f409645ce6bc2.jpg

 

IMG_20200307_021209.thumb.jpg.c8ee006b587ff330b1a23bcb61447dc7.jpg

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The site seems to have issues with very long posts, so i'll break this up into multiple posts.

Now that it was going to be "The Rose", the challenge was to find rose themed / colored ornamentation such as neckplates...

IMG_20200228_163315.thumb.jpg.e6541be6eef915af319a175286b58628.jpg

The one on the left has been squirted with translucent purple paint.     The one on the right will be used as a stencil to squirt a matching translucent purple rose on the lower left side of the front of the body.

The kit came with black hardware, and you only get a few choices in colors available for all hardware - black, gold, silver, that's about it.  Sure you can get purple pickups and knobs, but not purple trems.

So custom colored hardware would be called for.   This meant a quest for rose colored paint....

IMG_20200229_135856.thumb.jpg.fe5d429e6dfd68097fc004bc1df9be88.jpg

These are four colors i tested.    I selected the upper left color as the primary hardware color, and the upper right color as the two tone color.

 

 

Edited by norm barrows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

keda is good stuff... but it's deceptive how dark it looks mixed vs how light it goes on.  actually takes quite a bit of powder to get a dark color, and then the wood you choose has a large impact on how much it soaks up.  afa even... that's the wood too.  I find that it's best to do multiple coats - let them dry, then draw off the dye that is sitting on top with alcohol/min spirits and dye again.

woodworking is 50% having a plan and then 99% choosing where to go when that plan doesn't work! 

looks like purpleheart there.  it will darken a bit when you add clear so... should look nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ACRosengrant said:

a beautiful accident.

That's the most precise description i've heard yet.   That's exactly what it was - a beautiful accident.   I'm not really sure why it turned out the way it did.    And i'm unsure of how i would go about reproducing it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mistermikev said:

then draw off the dye that is sitting on top with alcohol/min spirits and dye again.

Are you using water or alcohol as your liquid carrier?     I've been using water.   But i've been thinking that alcohol may work better. better penetration, faster drying.      There was no sanding back or other means used to reduce the pink before the purple was applied.  I think the purple took where the pink was unsaturated, and did not where the pink had already saturated the wood.

3 hours ago, mistermikev said:

woodworking is 50% having a plan and then 99% choosing where to go when that plan doesn't work! 

sort of like that "a pro knows how to recover" quote.   

3 hours ago, mistermikev said:

looks like purpleheart there.  it will darken a bit when you add clear so... should look nice.

That's already lacquered and ready for assembly, so it's already darkened.    As i said, my "purple" was more like "lavenderheart" than "purpleheart"  <g>.    

There's "overspray"  (over-stain?) in the cavities. it shows the original pink and purple used.  I plan to post a pic.

And some less blurry shots of the finish.   This is another one where the back of the neck turned out great.   Wonder why that is.  Perhaps close-grained vs not close-grained.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, norm barrows said:

Are you using water or alcohol as your liquid carrier?     I've been using water.   But i've been thinking that alcohol may work better. better penetration, faster drying.      There was no sanding back or other means used to reduce the pink before the purple was applied.  I think the purple took where the pink was unsaturated, and did not where the pink had already saturated the wood.

sort of like that "a pro knows how to recover" quote.   

That's already lacquered and ready for assembly, so it's already darkened.    As i said, my "purple" was more like "lavenderheart" than "purpleheart"  <g>.    

There's "overspray"  (over-stain?) in the cavities. it shows the original pink and purple used.  I plan to post a pic.

And some less blurry shots of the finish.   This is another one where the back of the neck turned out great.   Wonder why that is.  Perhaps close-grained vs not close-grained.

"purple took where the pink was unsaturated, and did not where the pink had already saturated the wood." probably that to some degree... but also dye will sit on top and dillute your purple with the prior color.

I have used alcohol but I prefer water because the color will last longer/remain vibrant.  Drawing color out with alcohol after.  Just how I like to do it... no rules.

afa purpleheart... it looks a lot like my purpleheart b4 I put naptha on it.  little more purple but close to it now that it has dried and b4 finish. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

but also dye will sit on top and dillute your purple with the prior color.

yes, that seems to be what happened.  I'm taking more photos right now, and just took one where the purple definitely seems to have "loosened" the pink and taken it with it  (a run inside the control cavity).

35 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

Drawing color out with alcohol after. 

never heard of that technique.    water stain, then "sand back" by using an applicator dipped in alcohol ?    sounds like it might give smoother gradients than real sanding back.   

Wish i could come up with something like that for the Dallas Cowboys guitar.    I can make metallic silver stain from silver metallic lacquer and lacquer thinner  (  10% to 20% silver, the rest thinner).    But it does not blend well with water based blue dye.   You get gradients.

42 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

little more purple but close to it now that it has dried and b4 finish. 

you know how it is, the finish will make the purple pop. its a really beautiful wood.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pink and the purple.....

Here you can see the "red"  (pink)   and purple used.

You can also see where the purple ran, and seems to have taken the pink with it.

Don't think i could have matched bubble gum better if i tried!   <g>.

IMG_20200307_124851.thumb.jpg.a8fe289f3337d3943f19e5dcf52fa25e.jpg

 

Some less blurry shots of the finish....

Front

IMG_20200307_124223.thumb.jpg.ede9dc4e774c4affa1fc951b7aa4582d.jpg

 

Back

IMG_20200307_124419.thumb.jpg.39078bc79e2b9a54182748dd287fc147.jpg

 

Neck

IMG_20200307_124238.thumb.jpg.72576733458a67895a334098dc2ec668.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rose gold pickups with red chrome mounting ring.

IMG_20200307_132115.thumb.jpg.95bebd096f8ff7167f650adc00d626cd.jpg

 

 

Rose gold Steinburger trem with red chrome saddles, string blocks, tuner knobs, and trem spring adjustment knob.

Rose gold nut with red chrome locking plates.

IMG_20200307_134023.thumb.jpg.b51beae527067e5a415a21e51433a427.jpg

Edited by norm barrows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I laid out all the parts together to see how it would all look.

Metallic flake dark salmon pink just does not cut it.

I'm going to have to find a new color scheme.

I briefly considered sanding back and starting over.    But the "beautiful accident" is just too pretty to do that to. 

If anyone has suggestions, i'm all ears.

If i can't come up with something good, i guess i'll cancel the build.

This is the danger of running with an inspired thought, without thinking it all the way through from beginning to end. 

I have a tendency to come up with a general concept for a guitar, add it to the list of builds, then worry about the details later.

It usually works, but not this time apparently.

"As goes the project, so goes the mood of the engineers"

right now i fell like tossing the P.O.S. on the trash fire - and snapping a few souls in half - its just one of those lives,

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, norm barrows said:

If anyone has suggestions, i'm all ears.

So you've found out that the same colour or close enough all over doesn't look good?

One word: Contrast. The dark fretboard looks nice against the rose and so does the neck plate (chrome or black chrome?). Continue with either or both of those lines.

For bright chrome you can do some testing by covering the hardware with tin foil, simple and inexpensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

So you've found out that the same colour or close enough all over doesn't look good?

No, its the "rose gold" i chose as the primary hardware color.  its really more like "dark metallic flake salmon pink".   It just does not go well with the "purplish" finish i have to work with.

Black, gold, and silver are not options.  None will yield the desired "look"  (aesthetic).     Unfortunately i don't have a firm picture in my head of what would be correct.   I'm thinking something purple.   Or maybe translucent purple over silver....

I tried a coat of toreador metallic flake red (lower left in the color tests) on one of the single coils.   Red doesn't work with the color of the guitar.  So red is out.    And i think its safe to say that shades of pink are not an option either.  

So that leaves purple of some sort, or some other color that goes well with the guitar color (lavender), that is not black, silver, gold, pink, or red.   i think i'm running out of colors!    :( 

 

 

Edited by norm barrows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, norm barrows said:

No, its the "rose gold" i chose as the primary hardware color.  its really more like "dark metallic flake salmon pink".   It just does not go well with the "purplish" finish i have to work with.

That explains why the hardware looks different to the wood 😁

If memory serves me right getting different reds match is more difficult than matching blues. Like baby girl pink and firetrucks!

Opposite colours in the colour wheel would be one option, in your case something light greenish yellow. Or an element of the purplish, which means blue or red without any yellow i.e. a slightly reddish (warm) blue or slightly bluish (cold) red.

image.png.cdc53fe20d9b31a775cebd256d3b2c36.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Opposite colours in the colour wheel would be one option, in your case something light greenish yellow.

i think i need something complementary, not contrasting.

Maybe go in the blue direction, instead of the red.    I already have two brands of anodized purple in my ebay shopping cart to try out, and my paycheck just arrived, so its time to go shopping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to say it, but light blue might work.

Light blue was my mother's favorite color.   i grew up in a house where everything was blue.   i got burned out on blue.    i hate blue.      I refuse to own anything blue, except for jeans.

OTOH sky blue might work for a hardware color.

And i've also been contemplating making a blue guitar - perhaps i'm no longer as burned out on blue as i once was.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The purple paint for the hardware arrived. 

Starting with one red and two salmon colored pickups, and squirting them purple, coverage was uneven on all the pickups, and very poor on the red pickup.   So i tried sanding back the red pcikup.    easier said than done.   So i squirted everything white to get a clean slate.  The i gave them a light coat of purple.  And this is what i got.....

 

IMG_20200313_215641.thumb.jpg.e9f2f56cd99ad76326a6082869c19ed5.jpg

 

Self leveling on the humbucker was less than perfect as well.....

IMG_20200313_215751.thumb.jpg.061dc26ac3aace89eedc67fb00c2504c.jpg

 

i wasn't sure what to do...    sand back and try again?    get new covers and try again?     Embrace another "happy accident" and use checked singe coils?    Maybe if all three were checked...     But i could never do that!   I don't know why the single coils checked in the first place!

So i posted a question here about the checking, then decided to give the humbucker another coat, and it checked too!

IMG_20200313_230717.thumb.jpg.64638009bd05bbb679500bb174cfad96.jpg

 

So now i'm thinking maybe the fates of the universe are trying to tell me something...   <g>

Like maybe i ought to go with checked pickups.    its is a rather cool looking effect.

Perhaps the entire finish on this guitar will be a collection of happy accidents.

Maybe its a good thing i do'n't know what i'm doing ! <g>.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, norm barrows said:

Like maybe i ought to go with checked pickups.    its is a rather cool looking effect.

Actually I like checkered pickups more than a checkered guitar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starting to look better....

I squirted all the hardware with VHT anodized purple.   Purple over salmon yielded a dark plum color.   Purple turned the red chrome to a dark rose/blood red - very nice.    Purple over a white basecoat yielded more lavender shades.   The cover plate still needs help.    And the left side of the trem as well   But the rest is finally out of the "paint shop" and has gone into the bag of parts for The Rose, awaiting final assembly.

I think i'll keep the checked pickups.   

I'll layout a mockup today to see how it all looks together, with the plum hardware, the blood red two tone, the lavender accents, the checked pickups, and the purple chrome neckplate, t hanger, and jackplate.  The nose rings finally arrived as well.

Nose rings?      yes - nose rings, as in clip on your nose fake piercing.   The rose themed decorative bling purchased for the build includes not only a rose sillouette neckplate, but a large rose brooch, two rose quartz pendants, a 2" rose quartz obelisk crystal, a 3" amythist obelisk crystal, and two rose gold nose rings.   I haven't entirely figured out what will get used, and where it will all go.

The brooch will likely be a headstock logo on the front of the T hanger.  The pendants will probably go on the horns, with little chains draped over the back.   or maybe on the control knobs.     I have yet to see where the nose rings might work.   The crystals don't look like they will make the cut. The Brooch makes a  nicer headstock ornament.

 

The anodized purple paint is designed for use over chrome.  Its very thin and runny.   Sort of rubbery too.  Don't fill scratches well.   hard to sand.    all adds up to a bit of a pain to work with.

 

IMG_20200315_142252.thumb.jpg.4f6d9814b33379c94f22ebef0375fed8.jpg

 

IMG_20200315_142337.thumb.jpg.ec35a6ca88a9dc16e3dc544dcae62dfe.jpg

 

IMG_20200315_142353.thumb.jpg.907423454af364c8d95daa21f15e324a.jpg

 

IMG_20200315_142412.thumb.jpg.5434613755ac76354f28acd29a1ee956.jpg

 

IMG_20200315_142426.thumb.jpg.8479219674e9ea8084f16c69cdd9e922.jpg

 

IMG_20200315_142456.thumb.jpg.cd42354a9cb3c535050ae562871f54e7.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by norm barrows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Rose mock-up, with the new hardware colors....

 

(  i'm new to using phone cameras.   why is it so blurry?   am I not holding the phone still enough?  )

 

IMG_20200315_214650.thumb.jpg.9cd1c8ac145edb8d703ba7479c50eb26.jpg

 

 

The neckplate shows where it will be used as a template to spray paint a translucent purple rose on the lower left side.

IMG_20200315_214718.thumb.jpg.f7bb97ef413482699cc44603e7baf0f1.jpg

 

 

The Rose brooch headstock ornament and T hanger....

IMG_20200315_214802.thumb.jpg.714f0cabb043eae43cbe534cf65c0d95.jpg

 

The trem, pickups, and nose rings <g>.   The nose rings actually look nice between, on either side of, or at the corners of the pickups.  I should have gotten more than two.    I don't think they even cost $1 each.    But it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get them. 

IMG_20200315_214851.thumb.jpg.03475d6e27d9ec96f4bcf696a8d84cec.jpg

 

 

Another shot of the pickups.  One of the pendants can been seen on the left horn.

IMG_20200315_214920.thumb.jpg.b6ca3a11310d55553a3d735ed7a3a4cc.jpg

 

The trem arm is anodized purple over red chrome, yielding a dark rose / blood red color.   The knobs and switch hat are anodized purple over white.  As you can see, the purple has adhesion issues, causing easy chipping.   The left side of the trem also has some bad spots already.   I'll have to sand back, re-squirt gloss white enamel, let it dry rock hard, scuff it, then re-squirt anodized purple.   Looks like i should buy a few cans of white primer if i'm going to be painting guitar hardware much.

IMG_20200315_214947.thumb.jpg.34ec43f518867b8d7fcf3834945e9559.jpg

 

The jack plate is translucent purple on chrome, with anodized purple screws.

IMG_20200315_215119.thumb.jpg.0b3db0077f142417b667e80318647756.jpg

 

The control cavity cover has been sanded back, re-squirted white, and has two very light coats of anodized purple so far.  

The knobs, trem and control cover will need to be finished correctly before everything is finally ready for assembly.

I wish i was better at finishing wood and spray painting hardware.   

Patience, attention to detail, patience, practice, and more patience seem to be key.

A spray booth with proper lighting and a real spray gun ,might help too... <g>.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest mock-up, with the trem, control knobs, and controls cavity cover re-painted....

The trem and knobs are now a rose red color...

IMG_20200319_151707.thumb.jpg.bc2a42b3f09d2ee72ff5585bc480ad18.jpg

 

 

The headstock is unchanged...  but looking a little rough!    maybe I should send it back to the "paint shop".IMG_20200319_151736.thumb.jpg.2e18140d21103b6538bc4ebac32308d6.jpg

 

 

The assembled trem is now five colors: red trem body, purple base and tuners, dark red saddles and spring adjuster knob, and a light metallic red/purple for the string blocks. The spring and spring cup are the OEM black finish.

IMG_20200319_151752.thumb.jpg.6e5e625661691cd3354cabd162071a15.jpg

 

The knobs were sanded back to bare metal on the tops. The purple was left on the knurled sides. Then they were squirted with the toreador metallic flake red.

IMG_20200319_151841.thumb.jpg.1c35056f380a40f81c84047cb2301c3d.jpg

 

The dreaded control panel.   I probably squirted this thing a dozen times, and sanded it back almost as many times.   What you see here is sanded back, then flat black primer, then the purple anodized (which was too dark), then the toreador red (which was too red), then the purple again (which got me a very dark red).

IMG_20200319_152150.thumb.jpg.52a194cb5947d466d89588db2e29c32e.jpg

 

Rose themed inlay stickers are on order.

Edited by norm barrows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assembly begins.

Installing the nut was first.    Time to dig out screws.    Hmm....   not painted - still OEM black.      Off to the paint shop!

The allen screws and wood screws for the nut on the left, and control cover screws on the right. 

I sanded the purple off the allen screws, all the way back to bare metal - even the sides - god is in the details.     I sanded the top of the wood screws for the nut.      I did not sand the cover screws before painting.     Everything got the toreador red.

IMG_20200320_184835.thumb.jpg.e5579ab68eaed9063f4f8eae15df797b.jpg

 

Yesterday I sanded the top of the nut back to bare metal, and squirted it with the toreador red.

IMG_20200320_184545.thumb.jpg.9864002e561e7600e809c520427a503f.jpg

 

The trem base has been installed.   Note the routing error at the lower left screw hole.   The pickup routing is rather tight as well.   Ebay kit.    You get what you pay for.   I'm not even going to try the 4th screw.  I played that game with the x-4 - splayed screws.     As you can see, the clearance routing for the trem lock clip is way bigger than it needs to be.

IMG_20200320_184625.thumb.jpg.7e46cf233b078505949e46dc329cf1e4.jpg 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the drawing board...

Both the red and purple paints have adhesion issues.

Chipping on the trem and saddles.

So....

IMG_20200321_140139.thumb.jpg.c184ca38bf765c56aef2cf4e1163080c.jpg

 

Sand it back yet again!

Rustoleum Regal Red is on the way from Ebay.      I'll mask off the sides of the saddles, and the inside sides of the saddle "trough" before squirting.     Right now everything is clean metal, and the saddles actually drop right in, with no press fit required due to paint in the way.    Even OEM black finish causes enough clearance issues to make the saddles tight.    The trem has an allen set screw for locking the saddles, so a non-interference fit is not an issue.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much for Rustoleum Colonial Red - too red!      More like a cheap toy fire truck than a dark red rose.

Cranberry is next, and then I've used up the dark reds in Rustoleum and have to move on to purples, or blues.

But as you can see, coverage is excellent, even with just one coat.   So at least the Rustoleum looks like it will stick.     Now all I have to do is find the right color.

IMG_20200324_232809.thumb.jpg.971b0c407c2a548c4385a8eb4e0202e3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...