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graniteguitarist

SSH 1v 3t wiring help?

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Hello Everyone! 

I have recently begun my first guitar build, since I am stuck at home it seemed like a great idea. It being my first guitar build, I was (and still am) a little naive about how hard it would be to figure out the wiring. I wanted it to be a little different, so I ended up deciding on the following pickup configuration:

  • Neck: Telecaster Singlecoil (fender Highway 1)
  • Middle: Gretsch Singlecoil (not sure of the exact specs, link below)
  • Bridge: Gretsch Electromatic Humbucker

Overall that didn't seem too bad, until I took into account the following:

  1. I decided on 4 knobs; 1 volume knob and 3 tone knobs, one for each pickup. 
  2. I also decided on a 5-way rotary switch (because that will fit the best on my guitar body) with the positions as follows:
    1. Neck
    2. Neck/Middle
    3. Middle
    4. Middle/Bridge
    5. Bridge
  3. Possibly most challenging of all, The Gretsch humbucker I am using does not have the standard 4 wires coming out of it. It only has 2...

I thought finding a wiring schematic would be reasonably easy, but the combination of the abnormal humbucker and the 3 tone knobs seems to have made it rather difficult. On top of that, I know that there is a possibility of having phase issues and hum if I wire it a certain way, but I can't seem to wrap my head around what I need to do in order to avoid that. Is there anyone out there who can explain to me what things I need to keep in mind, and/or knows of any articles/otherwise that can give me a bit more info? A wiring diagram that matches what I am doing would be absolutely amazing but if I couldn't find one it might not be out there...

Overall, I probably bit off a little more than I can chew for my first build but that just means it will be all the sweeter when I finally do figure it out. I know at this point I am an absolute newby so I thank you in advance for taking the time out of your day to help me out. 

 

Links to the pickups I am using:

Neck-https://reverb.com/item/33050703-fender-highway-1-telecaster-neck-pickup-chrome

Middle-https://reverb.com/item/32945712-gretsch-pickup-chrome

Bridge-https://reverb.com/item/31794794-gretsch-electromatic-2000-s

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divide and conquer

get the diagram for a two wire pickup and a tone pot, thats the first part for all three pickups, then use the output of those three tone pots as the input for a 5 way switch diagram. then use the output of the 5 way as the input for a master volume, and then go to the jack.

as i recall, your middle pickup needs to be rwrp (reverse wound reverse pole) compared to your neck for hum cancelling in the neck+mid switch position.    same idea if you were using a single coil at the bridge.  not sure what happens when you use a humbucker at the bridge.   confirm anything i say, i'm not really into classic strats with 5 ways.

use of on-off tone pots eliminates parasitic treble bleed inherent in conventional tone pots.

.

 

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That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the info on where to start! After spending most of today researching everything I could about it, with your statement in mind, I think I have planned out what I need to do, but I am still a little uncertain. I drew out the wiring diagram I came up with in ms paint (high tech I know) and have the picture here. Does this look correct? 

Also, about the potential phasing issues.. It looks like I might have some issues with the pickups I bought, but from what I found I can modify the pickups slightly to fix any problems that I might have, so I m not too worried about that at the moment. (I will cross that bridge when i get there)

The last question I have is about the rotary switch. I figured out how to wire the thing, (finally) but it seems there is only one option that matches what I am doing. This option looks great except that it is designed to be mounted on the pickguard, and my plan is to mount it on the body. There are other switches out there that are much bulkier and more complex which I could wire to work but they all seem to be for pickguard mount only as well. Does anyone here know where I could get one that has a longer shaft?

Here is a link to the simple one I found:
https://reverb.com/item/22298071-5-way-12-pin-rotary-switch-for-pickguard-mount

And the more complex ones look like this:
https://guitarelectronics.com/5-way-rotary-pickup-selector-switch/?gclid=CjwKCAjw4KD0BRBUEiwA7MFNTWKMAW66gWESZMkb2s7cWQY2tOw0gkYJst1sDNt31VQR4ivInRmHyxoCTo8QAvD_BwE

 

Guitar Wiring (Export).png

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17 minutes ago, graniteguitarist said:

Does this look correct? 

Your (red) leads from the pickups to each tone pot need to go the centre lug of each, not the leftmost lug. But otherwise it looks correct.

Another way to look at it is just consider your wiring scheme as the same as a standard Strat with the addition of one extra tone control for the bridge pickup.

Phasing will be limited by how each pickup has been wound and constructed. Because you're using dissimilar pickups you'll largely be stuck with what you have bought. While you might get lucky, don't expect that familiar Strat 'quack' and inherent hum cancellation in switch positions 2 and 4.

 

25 minutes ago, graniteguitarist said:

Does anyone here know where I could get one that has a longer shaft?

The shaft length itself won't be an issue, as there are plenty of options out there for long shaft rotary switches (Google to find results). I suspect where you'll come unstuck is finding a rotary switch with a tall threaded mounting collar, which won't be easy as they're not a standard implementation of a rotary switch (historically they were designed to be mounted on thin bits of sheet metal in radios and TV sets...and scratchplates)

Your only real recourse is to (carefully!) modify the body cavity such that there is sufficiently thin clearance to accommodate the more 'standard' threaded section of a rotary switch. Cavity surface  thicknesses of 3-4mm should suit most rotary switches, and still retain enough strength to withstand rock 'n roll.

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So would that mean having the hot from each pickup on the middle, and the hot lead from the pot to the switch on the leftmost lug? Having both in the middle doesn't seem to make much sense to me, but I could be wrong.

As far as the switch goes, I have not been able to find one that would be able to take a knob that is of that style, but perhaps with some more searching one will turn up. If not, it will be down to drilling out the cavity extremely carefully and hoping I don't go too far. 

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Re attaching a switch to thin wood instead of a more solid metal or plastic plate, a large thin washer on both sides will spread the torque.

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36 minutes ago, graniteguitarist said:

So would that mean having the hot from each pickup on the middle, and the hot lead from the pot to the switch on the leftmost lug? Having both in the middle doesn't seem to make much sense to me, but I could be wrong.

You need the hot leads from each pickup to attach to the middle lug of each associated  tone pot, while keeping the middle lug lead in place from the tone pot to the rotary switch (ie, two wires on the middle lug of the tone pot, leftmost lug un-terminated). 

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as curtisa mentioned... above you've wired those tone pots as combo tone/volume pots.  ie as you drop off tone you will drop off volume because you are placing resistance between the in and out wire.  the tone pot really just needs to 'tap' the audio signal not interrupt it.  so... both wires go to the sm lug. 

afa rotary... I've mounted them on the body... in fact I've even used the 2nd one you've posted above to do just that... but I only had a 1/4" top... and I drilled the hole big enough for the bottom ridge to go into it.  That switch is overkill for you... you only need a 1p5t.  that is a 4p5t.  You can find them cheaper all over but here's one: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/electromechanical/switches-key-pad/rotary-switch.html

note that the 1p12t usually has a special washer that can limit it to 2-12 positions.  (you could just use a 2p6t and wire in one more position with all pickups on -hint hint) 

afa pickups... unfortunately the ones you have chosen will not split unless you re-wired them to be 3/4 wire (not recommended).  the only place it's going to hurt you is when you combine the humbucker with a single coil (pos 4?) it will have a little hum but being in the neck position it probably doesn't really matter as the highs are subdued. 

cheers and look fwd to seeing some build picks!

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That makes a lot of sense as far as the tone pots go, thanks for the thorough explanation of it. 

For the rotary switch, the minimum I would need would be a 2p5t, correct? From what I can find I need the second pole in order to have 2 pickups at once. I thought about adding a 6th position, which would be neck/bridge instead of all 3 pickups so I could stay with a 2 pole switch. If it is cheaper to do it that way I think I just might. 

As far as coil-splitting, that is something I have pondered as well, as I should be able to modify the pickup if I wanted to in order to do so. If I were I would use a push-pull tone pot for it, and let that be that. Why do you say you don't recommend that? At this point I am undecided if I want to go that route, so any information about it would be welcome. 

 

Here is my modified wiring diagram, does it look better?

 

Guitar Wiring.png

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8 hours ago, graniteguitarist said:

the minimum I would need would be a 2p5t, correct?

Yes.

 

8 hours ago, graniteguitarist said:

Here is my modified wiring diagram, does it look better?

Yep.

Assuming the wiper element of each switch moves clockwise (-> 1-2-3-4-5-6) around the contacts you will get:

  1. Bridge + Neck
  2. Bridge
  3. Bridge + Middle
  4. Middle
  5. Middle + Neck
  6. Neck

 

8 hours ago, graniteguitarist said:

As far as coil-splitting, that is something I have pondered as well, as I should be able to modify the pickup if I wanted to in order to do so.

I'd personally not recommend you modify the pickup to provide a coil tap wire. Playing with the factory coil terminations and fiddling with the hair-thin wiring on each coil, it's quite easy to end up with a humbucker that suddenly doesn't work.

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My goal for the switching positions is (from counter clockwise to clockwise from the top) 

  1. Neck
  2. Neck/Middle
  3. Middle
  4. Middle/Bridge
  5. Bridge
  6. Bridge/Neck

Is what I have on my wiring diagram different than that? I went ahead and ordered the 6 way switch, so I will look at the pins a little closer to verify exactly what each is when that gets here. 

As far as the coil-tapping, that makes sense. I think I am going to leave it be anyway, as I am not sure if I have the clearance for a push-pull pot in the body. 

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Depends if you want position 1 to be the most clockwise notch on the rotary when mounted on the guitar or the most counter-clockwise. My gut feel would be to put position 1 (Neck) on the most clockwise notch on the switch, so that rotating the switch counter-clockwise steps you back through the pickup combinations in order of proximity to the bridge. But that's just me.

Put it this way: if you want it the opposite order all you need to do is just "mirror" the terminations on each group of six outer lugs on the rotary switch, so that instead of stepping through Neck -> Bridge in positions 1 -> 6, they step Bridge -> Neck in Positions 1-> 6.

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13 hours ago, graniteguitarist said:

That makes a lot of sense as far as the tone pots go, thanks for the thorough explanation of it. 

For the rotary switch, the minimum I would need would be a 2p5t, correct? From what I can find I need the second pole in order to have 2 pickups at once. I thought about adding a 6th position, which would be neck/bridge instead of all 3 pickups so I could stay with a 2 pole switch. If it is cheaper to do it that way I think I just might. 

As far as coil-splitting, that is something I have pondered as well, as I should be able to modify the pickup if I wanted to in order to do so. If I were I would use a push-pull tone pot for it, and let that be that. Why do you say you don't recommend that? At this point I am undecided if I want to go that route, so any information about it would be welcome. 

 

Here is my modified wiring diagram, does it look better?

 

Guitar Wiring.png

oops, my bad.  you do need 2 poles... because of the combo positions. 

afa switch it matches what you have assuming we are looking at the bottom of the switch and the order is clockwise.  the tone pots are right too.

afa humbucker... no, a push pull won't help you if you just have two wires.  spliltting a pickup requires access to the wire between the two coils.  in a two wire humbucker you've got the start of one coil and the end of another.  you could peel back the tape on the pickup and find a little wire connecting the end of the first coil to the start of the last... and just solder a wire to it... and send that to ground to split using a push pull.  that makes it a 3 wire.  but those wires are so delicate... and if you break them from the coil wire - yer done.  if you are delicate you could do it.  but you could just as easily ruin the pickup.  not recommended. 

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Cool, I think I have what I need now! I will update y'all when I get the wiring done or I run into a problem. Probably will be in a couple of weeks either way as I have some stuff I need to get done first. Thanks for the help!

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Hi there it looks like your all set but I thought I'd show you my 6 pole rotary switch. Mine is wired so that Neck+Bridge is last. Its a pity you can't wire it to be in the middle somewhere. Oh and there's another few photos which should be self explanatory

1732777477_IMG_5893M4wiring.thumb.jpg.3429f39f1050d49fe821c462fa5bcdcf.jpg

609434662_IMG_5894M4controls.thumb.jpg.787002e12a32d9c930c638f38ac3d8af.jpg

1354868812_IMG_3153M4.thumb.JPG.dbca030528309c6c87272400524e7457.JPG

 

IMG_1162.thumb.JPG.fb1a310bb70de06611225924fe6ae238.JPG

IMG_1168.thumb.JPG.de913461213fc1b835a67709316d97ed.JPG

 

I found that copper spaghetti is not very appetising

Good luck with your projects!

IMG_0050.thumb.jpg.560a189dbbc3a18753f2bb71bdf46678.jpg

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@Crusader, that's a very interesting way of building a three piece body!

AFA copper spaghetti, before I started this wonderful hobby including tons of videos and such I tried to weaken the output of my €50 Applause short scale S-type by unwinding some copper.... Well, it didn't go well. The thread just didn't want to unwind so I took a knife and cut a thicker layer out, thinking that I could find the loose end after ripping the snippets out. Swapping the magnets would have been much, much easier. Not to mention that the local shop would have taken them as part of the payment for the pickups I ended up buying!

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Nice! It looks like everything turned out pretty nice for you. That made me think of one quick question: when running the wires to the pots, switch, etc, do I need to try to keep the wires separated at all? I am planning on having my switch above the neck Les Paul style, but still having the tone knobs where you would expect them to be. This means there will be about 4 wires running all the way up and down the guitar body together, will this be a problem? I know with a pedalboard I do my best to avoid two cables running side by side, so I wasn't sure if this will be a problem. 

If it is a problem, would it be any different between shielded wire and not? 

Guitar Plan.png

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8 minutes ago, graniteguitarist said:

This means there will be about 4 wires running all the way up and down the guitar body together, will this be a problem?

Running the wires alongside each other won't cause a serious issue in itself. Long runs of unshielded wire may make them more susceptible to picking up external noises though, so you may want to consider running them as a shielded cable(s), with the shield/braid connected to ground.

 

12 minutes ago, graniteguitarist said:

I know with a pedalboard I do my best to avoid two cables running side by side

I suspect that's more to do with running signal cables near pedal power cables.

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That makes sense. I have noticed with my pedalboard that it just reduces noise to keep them as separate as possible all the way around, but that might be in part by the fact that I have pretty cheap patch cables. I am glad to hear that if I use shielded wire I should have no problems whatsoever, I think that is what I will end up doing. 

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I've used abandoned computer cables on of my builds. USB cables have a shielding and four wires inside, laptop charger wires can have two plus shielding for ground. Power supply wires can be too thick or stiff depending on the amount of threads, I've used them inside the control cavity connecting pots etc.

It's amazing how much useful stuff can be found just laying around!

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