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Crusader

Is this wiring correct?

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I have been studying this wiring diagram and I'm sure it will not work. It is an ON-OFF-ON switch and if you mouse over the image on RHS it shows the internal connections

For example It seems to show that in position 1, the Neck Hot wire is connected to North Start of the Neck (okay) but is also connected to North&South Finish of the Bridge pickup

It just does not look right, does anybody agree?

https://guitarelectronics.com/inner-coils-humbuckers-outer-coils/

Edited by Crusader
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Okay this simplifies it and indicates the error in the other schematic. However in position 1 it shows Hot connected to both ends of the North coil. I'm sure I tried that years ago and although the North coil won't work, it is active and causes noise

Any suggestions or comment on this? cheers

https://guitarelectronics.com/north-coil-humbucker-south-coil/

Edited by Crusader

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The second one is correct.   Didn't look at the first one closely.     Which of the two effects are you going for?

Connecting both ends of a humbucker coil to hot (or ground) shorts it out, so it no longer works. This leaves the other coil as a single coil with no hum cancelling.

Edited by norm barrows

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5 hours ago, Crusader said:

It just does not look right, does anybody agree?

https://guitarelectronics.com/inner-coils-humbuckers-outer-coils/

No, it's definitely in error. The diagram crosses up the red/white pairs of wires from both pickups on the switch.

Note that the drawn orientation of the pickup is important to making this work as described (ignoring the red/white mixup). Tapping inner/outer coil pairs requires that the pickups are oriented with the slugs away from each other. This may cause unexpected surprises if the pickups you're using only have twelve identical-looking pole pieces, or if you try to mix and match pickups with different winding standards. Relying on the "look" of the pickup may leave you tapping the upper/lower coils rather than the inner/outer coils.

 

5 hours ago, Crusader said:

Any suggestions or comment on this? cheers

https://guitarelectronics.com/north-coil-humbucker-south-coil/

That one will work fine. Adding a second "column" to the switch and copying the terminations for a second pickup will also fix the first diagram, although the vagueness surrounding the pickup orientation still remains.

 

5 hours ago, Crusader said:

However in position 1 it shows Hot connected to both ends of the North coil. I'm sure I tried that years ago and although the North coil won't work, it is active and causes noise

The switch works by "dragging the midpoint" of the two coils up and down. Using the hover-over diagram on that website, in position 1 the red/white tap point gets dragged up to the hot lead, which connects the midpoint to the output and shorts out the north coil, leaving only the south coil active. In position 3 the midpoint gets dragged down to ground, shorting out the south coil and leaving the north coil active. In position 2 the midpoint gets returned to an unconnected state and both coils are working as per a normal humbucker.

Another way to look at it is to imagine a slinky being suspended above the ground. The top is held in your right hand while the bottom touching the floor. Grabbing hold of the middle of the slinky in your left hand, imagine lowering the slinky towards the floor while maintaining the same relative distance between your left and right hands. The middle of the slinky being held in your left will eventually meet the floor while the remainder of the slinky held in your right ends up being half as high off the ground. The half-length of slinky held in your left hand now has a length of zero, while the half-length of slinky held in your right has remained constant.

Going in the other direction, hold the slinky as it was originally, leave your left hand steady gripping the middle and lower the top of the slinky being held your right hand until it meets your left. The slinky is once again half as high off the ground, but the two half-lengths of slinky being held in each of your hands have swapped over.

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16 hours ago, norm barrows said:

The second one is correct

10 hours ago, curtisa said:

No, it's definitely in error

Thanks guys I was wondering if I'm going mad

However I'm still a bit dubious about connecting Hot to both ends of a coil. Overnight my memory has come back to me and I definitely experimented with this before and found the coil is noisy. Like even just tapping it with a plectrum....but I will look into it again

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On 5/9/2020 at 1:14 AM, norm barrows said:

......Which of the two effects are you going for?

A bit of a combination really. I don't want the outer coil of the Bridge pickup its just too bright

So I studied it tonight and I can get everything I want out of one switch (ON-OFF-ON) I never thought I would find a use for one of them!

Being able to switch between the Neck coils is something I've experimented with before but always decided was pointless. But with this guitar I thought I will give it a go

95399698_2020_05.09ES137.thumb.jpg.5c1927743ea382119a19ffee56edc594.jpg

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6 hours ago, Crusader said:

Being able to switch between the Neck coils is something I've experimented with before but always decided was pointless. But with this guitar I thought I will give it a go

Test it with gator clips before you make the final decision.  I find a lot of the tone options I plan are not really worth it when I test them just before hooking them up (or not hooking them up cause they are gimmicky at best).  At one point I was going to do humbucker/coil split/parallel with on/off switch and master volume and tone on the x-4. In the end, I ended up with just on/off switch and onboard EQ.  And I'm going to lose the on/off switch - you can just unplug the guitar slightly. I may add a push button momentary on switch as a true kill effect switch.

 

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13 hours ago, Crusader said:

Like even just tapping it with a plectrum....but I will look into it again

even with one coil shorted or open, you'll still hear something when you tap the dead coil.   But it won't sound the same as when you tap the live coil.    The effect is quite pronounced when you tap them with ferrous metal (IE a screwdriver), as opposed to non- ferrous materials, like plastic guitar picks, your finger, etc..  IE "loud as s--t" vs "in the next room".  Tapping with non-ferrous materials, it can sometimes be difficult to determine which coil is active.

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On 5/10/2020 at 7:59 AM, norm barrows said:

Test it with gator clips before you make the final decision.  I find a lot of the tone options I plan are not really worth it

I actually have some now but wish I had them 25 years ago when I did a lot of experimenting, I ruined a lot of pots over the years. But at least I have an idea of what I think is worth having and being able to choose between coils on the Neck pickup is something I'm sure I will like. This is a semi accoustic so I don't want to have to pull the pots out too often!

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Lo and behold I looked in my box of tricks and found a couple of pots already soldered up and was able to do the experiment I wanted without it being in the guitar!

And yes it works just fine, no excessive noise from the pickup when "grounded to Hot" I don't know what the issue was when I tried it years ago but nevertheless all good to go!

By the way one of the reasons for my questions is because I'm using Molex connectors like Gibson use in some models. Pictured here is the 2-pin type but I'm getting some that are 3-pin. I was wondering if I should get 4-pin but now that I'm convinced that I can get all I want with the wiring idea of connecting the centre wires to hot the 3-pins are adequate and all goes toward keeping it simple

IMG_6081.jpg

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