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westhemann

recording equipment

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Well I Have a delta sound card and, I want a mixer so i can record mulitple things at once! Mainly for drums.

1 mic at bass

2 for the toms

etc...

What is the best sound card and mixer I can get for this kind of work?

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By Delta, do you mean the kind made by M-Audio? If so, then you already have a good enough sound card. If, on the other hand, Delta is a brand name of "Soundblaster"-type soundcards that I haven't heard of, then you'll probably want to upgrade.

Now, the thing about most mixers is that they mix down to stereo, meaning that you end up with only 2 discrete channels. I believe that's the case with the mixer you mentioned. So, even though they accept 12 inputs, they only output a stereo pair. If you want to record multiple things at once, you CAN do it, but they'll end up on the same track (or pair of tracks) and not necessarily each microphone having its own dedicated track. It's infinitely more useful to have each instrument/mic on its own track.

If your soundcard is the M-Audio Delta series, which one is it? (ie. how many inputs does it have?) I remember seeing a mixer that was a recent release that had an ouput per-channel, and was made with the recording musician in mind. I can't remember who made it or what it was called, but a bit of Googling should come up with it. If, on the other hand, your soundcard is NOT the M-Audio Delta series, you have another option-- buying a new audio interface with built-in pre-amp and multiple channels. That way you can record your various instruments and mics into separate channels.

Greg

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I have the delta 44 m-audio. Heres really the kinda setup I need

Able to record a few tracks at once.(positioning the mics at different parts of the guitar)

phantom mic support

low noise

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The 44 is a 4 in unit, I think it has one more stereo feed for digital i/o but don't quote me on that. That means you can record up to 4 concurrent tracks if the audio software you're using allows it.

It's good to ask questions but realistically from the level of questions you're asking seriously suggests you should do more work before you play...meaning if you're having difficulty understanding what it is you want let alone what you need. I highly suggest downloading a few user manuals from mixers and reading the one for your delta 44 will help you understand what and why. Make sense? :D

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After reading this entire thread I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I started recording with my computer about 1 year ago. When I started out I found a website that soon became my best friend and it still is. I have found no other information anywhere that compares to this site for learning recording at home or anywhere for that matter. Perfect for a beginner or advanced mixer.

I have no affiliation with them. http://www.tweakheadz.com/

Lots to learn at tweakheadz and I used there guidelines to built an inexpensive DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) also lots of diagrams.

I had the computer so I just needed soundcard, mixer, amp to get setup.

This is what I ended up with and I'm very happy

Computer: ATHLON 2800+

Ram : 1.5 GB

Disk: 2 sata 150Gb 2 IDE 300Gb

DVD/ CD burners ( to sell your music to all your fans)

Some sound card by creative.

This first thing I needed was a good audio interface, lots of choices here but I ended up with the TASCAM US122 which is USB 2.0 and as yet have never had latency issues, very happy with this espcially or the price ($150)

Then I wanted a mixer so I could add a drum machine(ALESIS SR 16, 2 guitar amps 2 mics, the Tascam US122, tape deck so I got me a Behringer UB1204 Pro but now Tweak recommend the Behrigner XENYX 1204 ($139)

Of course I need an amp to drive my monitors so I got an used CRATE power mixer and just output from the Behringer to to input on the CRATE. ALT 3-4 on the mixer is important to have for this recording setup.

Have some studio monitors from the olden days.

THis whole setup is great for practice jams and recording.

I tried several rocording software packages and found CUBASE to be eaisiest for me to use. They have a light version that came with the TASCAM that works fine. The quality is excellent, mixing is all done on the computer ( I only use the Behringer mixer for jamming/monitoring and practice. Lots of cables were required but I am very happy with the setup. Cost wise this would be on the low end and I really didn't need the mixer and amp .... power monitors would have worked out fine for recording. But If you can afford it there are alot of other options ... this is a cheap one to get started.

There is definately a learning curve with both the hardware and software. But the best advice would be to read everything you can at Tweaks site.

So there's my 2 cents, hope it helps.

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I'm posting this in here because i think its the most related thread still going...sort of.

I'm using Tracktion 2 at the moment, but i'm tempted to move over to Cubase SX3, but for £150+ its big step to go. I'm wondering if anyone here uses it and how to use and get used to is it? I'll be using my old Delta1010 with it, so any problems i should be aware of?

Cheers.

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I'm posting this in here because i think its the most related thread still going...sort of.

I'm using Tracktion 2 at the moment, but i'm tempted to move over to Cubase SX3, but for £150+ its big step to go. I'm wondering if anyone here uses it and how to use and get used to is it? I'll be using my old Delta1010 with it, so any problems i should be aware of?

Cheers.

No major problems, SX3 and the Delta series work well.

It really depends on what you want to use it for and how you want to use it? I find Cubase to have the most flexible MIDI and sample integrated editors. Intuitive buses and plugin usage. You can get Cubase 4 now with the new version of VST technology integrated. Very cool new features.

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Cubase is a very capable piece of software. The industry standard for those who straddle the hobbyist / small studio line.

It's a shame there's no demo available for you to see if it's a good fit. It's pretty traditional, even though it has some features not found elsewhere. If you like menus and setting up a mixer as if the mixer were a piece of hardware, then it might be for you. :D

Greg

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Found this board, read a bit and found that it has almost all the comforts of home! Hey gang! LV here from the great state of Illinois that lately has been more of a cesspool of politics than usual. Oh, well like much in life, take the good and the bad. before anyone asks, no, not from Chicago (just outside Chicago is a little place called Illinois) but in the heartland of Chief Illiniwek (it's not a mascot, it's an attitude).

I looked at the original link that westhemann asked about and lo and behold, three + years later, it was still a good link and was still a good basic recording setup.

Several points that were not mentioned in this thread came to mind as I read and felt that some here might benefit.

In all the discussion of what everyone uses, no one mentioned the fact that the system in the link could serve as a basic idea of what all is needed to make a recording. I know that I will miss a few items, but it has a recorder, amp, speakers/headphones, cables, recording media, mics, stands, etc, etc. If I were going to try to explain to someone totally unfamiliar with the recording process, I would pull up this web page and explain what each piece of the puzzle did in relationship to the others. That said, one can also use this (as I did several decades ago) to get a basic recording setup together to make tapes (cassette) for my friends. I started using cassette tape bounced to cassette tape and by the third or fourth bounce, the noise floor was so present, I had to roll off all the highs just to get another pass. Totally unlistenable by today's standards of Mac vs. PC. But I could share my song ideas with my band members and we could get it closer faster that way than any other way that was available to me then.

Fast forward - today, I still use some of the same tricks that I used then to capture ideas and flesh them out for others to share and expand upon. Using the ad linked to above as a guide, I would buy the incidentals new and try to find the best used gear for the high ticket items. To explain, I was using a small two track recorder wishing I had an 8 track reel to reel. Boston used only 8. The Beatles only had four after the White album. To have 8 and the ability to bounce down through a good noise reduction unit would be the best I could ever imagine. Fortunately, others had better imaginations…

Well, long story short, I did get the 8 track back in 1988 and have not looked back. I now have a second for backup and to use for spare parts. Shortly after the first 8 arrived at my studio, the ads and hype started showing up for the new (then) ADAT and DA series digital.

DIGITAL!

No loss on bounces!

Heaven... <<<SIGH>>>

(NOTE: “gear-itis” is _not_ deadly or even fatal – except for the damage to the wallet and for the marital bliss of those with spouses…)

Today, I have three TASCAM DA-38's and a fourth for spare parts. All four were purchased for less than the "complete” setup shown on the link above. I also was able to purchase new cable for the rig and a box of new DA tape.

OK, when did I buy them? Three years ago. I know, “that’s so old school”. But I have also been able to _afford_ three new axes, a VOX modeling amp and a SRW bass amp (I liked the VOX Valvetronix so much, I bought a new Tonelab to use exclusively at home). plus am still under the costs for a comparable 24 track digital setup… (and the spouse is resting in bed while I write this).

The point? Well, we can all wet our pants crying after the latest, greatest, but we cannot forget the first and foremost reason the have a recording setup is to capture those 'magical moments"... the ones that will surely get away into the ether otherwise. The people who are the first to get the "latest, greatest" with every last bell and whistle, IMHO are the beta testers for the music products industry. Let them go and beta test, I'll keep on using what I have to record what I like and not have to spend 75% of my time with my nose in a book/webpage/cheat-sheet trying to figure out how to get it to do what I'm trying to do.

Again, the thread covers some really great points and I _have_ favorited several of the product links here for closer study.

Thanks for letting me share a few thoughts with you all.

Kindest regards,

LV

Edited by LVJMusic

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It is now rapidly closing in on Jan. 1, 2008.

Anyone feel like picking up this ball again?

Yup, ole' Drak is now dipping his big Drak toe into the DAW world, and finding the waters quite deep and perilous. :D

I have been studying this topic day and night, night and day for the past month.

I joined over 10 new forums in the past few weeks ( :D) , most of them relating to Home Studio apps.

And after reading reading reading those forums, I came back to this thread and found it quite informative and refreshing, so if anyone is interested, I'd like to continue the DAW saga with my own chapter, careening into 2008 and all the new twists it has to offer for the world of home recording since this thread was started 4 years ago.

Anyone up?

Noobster Drak, reportin' fo' duty.

:DSIR YES SIR! B)

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Good to see you getting yourself onboard Drak!!

On a related note, i've just bought myself 3 Shure SM57s to record with...as well as a cheap 60s microphone copy. It'll sound crap, but i'm a sucker for chrome!

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i dont know if its been bought up...im mean theres 13 pages of stuff i cant be bothered reading

but i reckon pro-tools is really good

its a bit pricey but you can get an mbox mini for a reasonable price and it comes with some of the best software and hardware

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Pro Tools certainly holds the crown for "industry standard"; however, though the projects are compatible, be aware that Pro Tools and Pro Tools LE/M-Powered aren't the same in a lot of ways, beyond the usual "full version/light version" differences that are to be expected. A lot of Pro Tools power comes from the tight hardware integration, which is absent from the M-Powered lineup.

For a "Traditional Sequencer", you're spoiled for choice these days. I do agree that often whatever "comes with your card" is more than adequate--and also more powerful than we had a mere decade ago! For people that have gear that comes with Sonar LE, I think it's the best of the "crippled version" bunch. Cubase LE is acceptable, and Tracktion (which comes with Mackie interfaces) is the only truly full-featured of the bunch.

If you're willing to take the time and possibly make an extra purchase, by all means do not walk past Reaper, which has really come into its own since this thread started. I'm a Tracktioneer at heart, but I can't stop myself from recommending Reaper to people on a budget, looking for an alternative, or who like to be on the cutting edge (the developer is a madman cranking out update after update).

--

Drak-- by all means, I'm no expert... I'm just a hobbyist who has spent far too much time researching and mucking around. But I for one would like to hear about your adventures, and if there's anything useful I can add to the conversation, I'll chip it in. :D

Greg

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Pro Tools certainly holds the crown for "industry standard"; however, though the projects are compatible, be aware that Pro Tools and Pro Tools LE/M-Powered aren't the same in a lot of ways, beyond the usual "full version/light version" differences that are to be expected.

true but were i am many plugins and expansions come with little or no cost when you buy anything from the M range.... if not why not invest in a desk

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I actually don't know about plug-ins for ProTools. I know that the "pro" version plugins are the most expensive out there, but if ProTools LE accepts VST plug-ins then you have the same huge variety that the rest of the sequencers have.

If you can invest in a Digi desk, you'd have to be crazy to NOT go with Pro Tools, although with the skyrocketing power of processors, the benefit of dedicated hardware is becoming minimized. If I had the money, I'd still go for it. :D

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I just moved to a DAW myself. I'm using ACID Pro 6. It's now got the same audio recording capabilities as Vegas -- in fact, it is done by the same team. Great stuff! Very simple, intuitive and enough features for me. I'm thinking of adding a control surface, however. I'm looking at the

Mackie Control Universal Pro. Any thoughts?

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The MCU is pretty widely supported. You should research how easy to use it is in an Acid environment just to be sure, but I've never heard of anyone having any terrible things to say about the MCU.

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Just thought I'd chime in on this thread. I've been slowly putting together a basic home recording setup. Got a Shure PG58 mic, a Line6 Toneport UX2, and Cakewalk Sonar 6. I plan on buying a Shure SM57 sometime in the not too distant future for instrument mic'ing. I think this setup should be good enough to have some fun with. I played around with it some last night, and once everything gets set up the basics are fairly straightforward. Now I just need to learn the art of getting a good recorded sound and mixing down and whatnot. I was thinking about picking up the 'For Dummies' book on home recording. Anybody got any other good book recommendations for learning the tricks?

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There are a lot of great web sites out there with tips on recording. I started building my home recording back in the 80's. My recording media went from multi track tape to computer. I changed the computer equipment over and over trying to keep up with what was out there for a while. Eventually you realise that the mics and pre amps are where you should invest. Focus on a clean micing system, and a great performance (just capture what is happening accurately and cleanly). Avoid paying too much attension to effects or extra processors. As far as software, I want a simple intuitive interface for taking down tracks. I started with mixing boards and that is the look of the interface that I prefer. I am first and for most concerned about my AD converter being clean and clear. I have 1010's that seem to do the job well (and I won't upgrade until they stop giving me clean tracks). If you can capture a clean track and good performance. You don't need to do much other than level, or a slight adjustment here or there with the EQ. Most perple that I know that use a lot of effects or processing on tracks during mix down are fighting a bad take or performance, so my requirements are minimal during mix down. If you didn't mess with the tracks much during mixdown, mastering should be very minor adjustments (same deal, good clean tracks, good clean mix, then simple clean master). The best advise out there from my experience is the advise most people ignor, which is to focus on simple making a good sound, and recording just what it sounds like (no more no less). To do that you need good musician and instrument, good clean signal chain and mic (or clean pre).

Sure 57's are a solid investment, and bulletproof workhorses. There are a lot of options when you look at condensors. A (or a pair) nice quality large diaphram with a good mounting system is a work horse. Med diaphram condensor is useful for some applications. A pair of small diaphram condensors is useful for some applications. Micing live drums can be very challenging or straight forward. If you go with a three mic. config. it is not too overwelming, a good kick drum mic. is a must. You can take live drum micing to the extream with three mics on your snare, one per. tom, stereo small diaphram overheads, large diaphram rear overhead, and possibly stereo large diaphram room mics. That is a very hard to control system, and a can of worms to mix. Cabnet micing with a pair of mics can be nice. Acoustic with one or two can be nice. Vocal mics get into an area that offers many options and is probably unique to the individual voice. You can 't cover all the options there, unless you want to invest a small fortune. Most vocalists should buy a mic that they prefer. A nice headphone amp and headphones is a must. The space that you record in can become expensive to treat. I try to just keep it simple and dry, with isolation for me, so I can hear what is being captured. Pre-amps get expensive if you get too crazy with the number of mics you want to use, and of course each mic requires a channel of AD conversion, so costs will rise very fast.

The better your musician you are trying to capture can control their dynamics, the easier it will be to get a good take (if they are all over the place it will be a mess). Protect your ears, because you will lose your ability to hear what is being captured if you are exposed to med loud levels (takes a few days for that hearing to come back). Keep your ears in good shape.

I would avoid super hot software, and digital converters, effects, plug ins and such. If you kill your buget for the stuff that counts most. Remember the electronics will become outdated at some point, a good mic will out last any of your other purchases. Try to buy mics that are the pro-studio workhorses.

Peace,Rich

Full disclosure, I sm not into electronic music, remixing, or midi sequencing and such. If those features are important to you, my experience would not translate to your situation. Just straight forward AD tracking and mixdown. :D

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I've just recently bought myself a few new mics and preamp. 3 new Shure SM57s and a Shure Beta58A for vocals, which now run into a Focusrite Octopre LE into my 1010. I use Tracktion 3 now as well. Haven't had a chance to test these out to their fullest yet, but i'm sure as hell looking forward to it.

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yeah the Shure SM57s are awesome

if you were wanting to mic guitars and you just doing it in a room with nothing else...

and you have the money you should look into a rodes K2... these things are unbelievable

they also do vocals as long as you have a popfilter

Edited by tim_ado

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yeah the Shure SM57s are awesome

if you were wanting to mic guitars and you just doing it in a room with nothing else...

and you have the money you should look into a rodes K2... these things are unbelievable

they also do vocals as long as you have a popfilter

Rode makes some very nice mics.

NT1, NT3, Never tried a K2 but I have heard they are nice.

AKG makes some very nice mics.

D112,c1000's, and many more those are just what came to mind

Shure makes some very nice mics.

SM57,SM58, same as AKG very nice line of mics.

Neumann makes some very nice mics.

U87(cheaper by the dozen right :D )

Groove Tube makes a cool mic.

GT57 (cool, but not for everyone)

Studio Projects makes some good mics for the dollar.

If you don't have experience with condensors, and of course cash gets stretched when you are buying all this gear to get stated. These guys offer a solid option without breaking the budget. Don't buy the complete line they offer, but maybe one basic LD condensor to get you going.

There are a lot of pretty good mics out there. I would avoid the low dollar large diaphram condensors, most sound pretty poor(there are a lot of them out there). There are some actually very nice mics in a moderate price range, spend your money on the workhorses first. Buy the right type of mic for what you are doing(a Shure 57 will do some jobs better than a U87). Specialty mics get pretty pricey(boutique), and often are only nice for occasional use. Buy clean, flat, and capable of handling the pressure your tossing its way. A big part of getting good use is placement, so good stands, clips, isolators make a big difference (get creative). Before you buy a mic. remember it will be with you for a long time. I think SM57's are a very good first purchase.

Man, this topic is making me want spend more time recording. This is not going to help my limited amount of building time :DB)

Peace,Rich

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