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Sustainer Ideas


psw

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This will be the 4,000th post...I couldn't resist making it my own... :D

Not only 4k posts, but some very long ones at that... :D

I have been able to find some time to do wiring diagrams and find parts for my latest project today including a sustainer and if all goes well there will be a new thread and GOTM entry as well, my first ever after admiring everyone else's for so many years...I am hoping that people familiar with the sustainer thread will consider it kindly as it is not just a guitar but a culmination of all the work that has gone on here.

This will be my telecaster project which has so many features it has taken a lot of thought to get it to this stage and I think I may even have worked out the sustainer part...we will see.

At this stage, I have the new sustainer driver fitted to the guitar and have finally worked out a way to fit all the controls into the telecasters very small cavity including the battery. At this stage the circuit will need to be fitted under the bridge pickup cavity.

The controls proposed are a volume, gibson style three way selector, drive control pot, sustainer on off switch and tone pot. The volume pot pulls up to provide a phase switch on the neck pickup which creates a very nice "quack" (like a position 2 on a strat). The drive control pulls up to provide the harmonic function. The battery just sits under the tone control and switch and is accessible via two screws.

In addition, I am considering a kill switch. I found a tiny surface mount push switch that might do the job and fit in just next to the volume control. I am also considering the placement of an LED. Some options include lighting the actual selector switch from below...we will see!

I have been playing and working on this guitar for some time now and it plays great. It is quite a unique guitar, especially for a tele so I hope the sustainer works out for it because I wouldn't want to compromise it's performance. Other features include a khaler locking and fine tuning tremolo with a range similar to a floyd, a new SCN neck pickup (stacked humbucker with additional focusing solarium cobalt magnets, and a original vintage and very rare fender full range humbucker in the bridge. Quite a few of the parts needed to be fabricated especially for the project. Other parts include locking sperzel/fender branded tuners and an LSR roller nut. The actual guitar is a 25th anniversary squier but the paint job was professionally sprayed. I picked up the guitar as an abandoned project on eBay but stripped it back to the body and neck. The paint job had already been done and color matched against an actual cobra classic car and is a kind of baby blue. I completed this theme with a lot of chrome and touches of red tortoise shell.

So a very unusual one of a kind guitar that in it's basic form plays and sounds great. This will have been the fourth rewire of the guitar with several options rejected to get it to this stage. While pioneering the sustainer here, what I enjoy playing most is a clean sound and that hendrix/mayfield kind of rhythm lead style at the moment...quite the opposite of sustain.

I am hoping with this guitar I will get closer to the kind of sound I have been looking for from the sustainer, clean sustain and harmonics. I have also changed amplifiers in the last year with my first real valve amplifier...a fender hot-rod deluxe.

If all goes well, I should be able to provide some better sound clips and pictures of this guitar and perhaps even some answers the the installation problems. It will be a testing ground for the surface mount stand alone driver and I hope will demonstrate my new circuit's effectiveness. I am not fully convinced that I have solved the switching noise problem (typically a pop on switch off), however with only one pickup to bypass, I might have a little more of a chance with it. Quite a few people have made suggestions of strategies to work on this. One thing that might aid in this is the neck pickups dual coil. Another thing to play with is the potential in my new wiring to attach a load or a capacitor or both to slow the release of energy that might build up in the pickup coil and cause the "pop". Otherwise, it will be yet another rewire and alterations and more delay...

All in all, it has been an interesting project and until recently not one that I had considered for a sustainer. There have been many experiments over the years (like my aborted ebow) that have not worked out to well and have not been posted. With this guitar I have been a little shy till I know it works. I have two other projects in the wings (another with a sustainer and an LP with trem and diy piezos) so there may well be more of interest on offer in the near future.

So...happy 4,000 post!

pete

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Good news...the tele project has made a leap forward today and I have been able to get the sustainer wired in and a few other features to this guitar. The sustainer seems to work really well and after much fiddling around go it all to fit into this guitar. The circuit fitted easily under the bridge HB but the rest and the battery are housed into a standard tele cavity which is pretty amazing given the amount of wiring in the thing.

There is still a little switch pop, but better than some I have done. The guitar is totally passive except when the sustainer is on.

Controls are volume, drive and tone (for some reason I am having trouble with this). I have used a three way gibson style selector and a push pull on the volume as a phase switch. A push pull on the drive control operates the harmonic function. A single toggle turns the sustainer on. A small LED lights up when on (I couldn't resist but is pretty subtle) and I even found a tiny SMD push button for a secret kill switch!

The guitar is very quiet but the sustainer puts out a huge sound maxed out...pretty stunning IMHO :D

I hope to post some pics soon once...but it is pretty cool that it worked out and after I re-setup the guitar again I will be giving it a good workout and see if I can do some sound clips so you can hear the thing.

pete

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Ok...here a few pics with the wiring almost complete (except for the pesky tone control)...

teleblue4.jpg

You can see that this little cavity is jam packed, even though, the battery can fit under the tone and is accessible by two screws...

teleblue3.jpg

The front of the guitar...the first photo shows how I was able to fit all this in by cleverly (well I thought so) overlapping and angling the pots and switches. from the surface it doesn't seem so crowded.

teleblue2.jpg

The driver in place, the thin wires pass under the scratchplate from the neck..the copper color matches the tortoiseshell highlights on the rest of the guitar...

teleblue1.jpg

Another view of the control panel ~ volume (pull phase switch), selector, drive (pull harmonic drive), sustainer switch, tone.

Next to the volume is a small blue LED, it is below the surface so not obvious when sustainer is off. Next to that which is very hard to see is a very small SMD push button kill switch in case I ever want to put a bucket over my head as seems to be the fashion these days :D obviously it is well hidden!

Even more hidden is the tiny circuit which I was able to locate under the bridge pickup with room to spare. The sustainer actually requires 12 wires from the circuit to the control cavity...so it is a tricky and frustrating task to wire up!

This driver works as well or better than my pickup drivers and is a good design. Other than the novel construction, it is much the same specifications as the original 3mm driver and was essentially hand wound. It is not a subtle effect as I appear to have had it maxed out. Also, I was able to run it in test mode by holding the bridge pickup above the strings and was able to get it remarkably close (mid position at least) and I am wondering if the neck pickups powerful magnets in the side are creating a shield in some way.

It does not seem to suffer from the dreaded "fizz" ~ the only weird noise is that maxed out, the e string bounces around so much it hits the bridge pickups pole piece. The guitar is only roughly tuned for testing and the trem arm is not in. So a bit of set up will fix a lot of the little niggles.

So, so far a great success...

pete

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Hey, that's looking good!

I especially like the highlights with the tortoiseshell! Is the one on the control plate to cover the 3-way selector switch, or did you get a blank control plate and drill the holes yourself?

And the humbucker mounting plate... is that something you made? I've never seen one before until I saw yours, and then yesterday I noticed a Hofner 70's guitar that had something similar... 

Heggis

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Thanks...

The guitar started out as an aborted project of someone elses...it is as Squier 25th aniversary model that was professionally spray painted and colour coded to a vintage AC cobra and he had the pickup too. Everything but the neck and body pretty much has been replaced with quality parts. The tremolo was my idea and fitted the quality machine like chrome feel of the thing

The pickup surround took a lot of thinking. These fender HB's are very big and you cant get surrounds for them so, yes I made this one from sheet aluminum. The surface was given a kind of brushed look and the tortoise shell is the stuff they use on acoustics which I put on in racing stripes. It harks back to that vintage era of wooden dashboards and hofner guitars. Similarly there is a lot of chrome and machine like features. The pictures came out a bit weird and don't do it justice colour wise. (the neck is actually a very pale blonde for instance). Cutting the surround turned out to be easy with a hand held nibbler and would cuts plastic too in little bites and sharp corners.

I bought a blank control plate, but in the end I used the original since I had done so many modifications to it. The tortoiseshell on there is to cover the selector slot, but it also hides a small LED and a tiny kill switch that you can't really see.

The bridge, tremolo arm, both pickups, the locking tuners, LSR nut, all the screws and jack plate and straplocks are a very bright chrome that continues this theme.

The sustainer driver is the natural copper wire coated in epoxy, which is similar to the tortoise shell colour and the retro machine kind of feel of it...so there was a method to it all!

Thanks for noticing, I was pretty pleased with the end result but it took a lot of fussing about to come up with this solution that allowed the use of a traditional tele pickguard yet accommodate the bridge and pickup requirements and make it look like it was "mean't to be". In the end it was a bonus as the circuitry could be placed under the HB and accessed by two screws allowing all the controls to squeeze into the control cavity and the battery.

I find the gibson style selector easier to use than a fender style lever, moving the volume forward makes it easier to reach and out of the way of the tremolo arm. This turned out to be a good solution that others may like to use to add another pot to a tele...as a bonus these can be push pull pots like I used to create a clean, no fuss look but with a lot of options.

pete

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I am hoping to be able to convert this for a 7 string strat project & need your opinions & help. I was told that you cannot use a singlecoil to push the driver is this true? I want to keep a stealth vintage strat look.The pickups & driver will be custom made. Is there any pervisions I need to aim for ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...:EOIBSA:US:1123

Edited by flickoflash
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Looks like a great score...congratulations...

However, I don't know that you will be able to use it so much to get a seven string out of it. The DIY sustainer is not a clone of the commercial technology. It might be possible if you take some measurements from the driver and try and replicate something similar...but it is hard to say.

I was told that you cannot use a singlecoil to push the driver is this true?

If you mean, can a pickup be used as a driver...no it can't.

The pickups & driver will be custom made. Is there any pervisions I need to aim for ?

Are you making the pickups yourself? You are probably aware that most of my drivers have been conversions of single coil pickups and my later ones virtually invisible so this may be possible and no real reason that it won't drive 7 strings, it is only lack of a market that they don't make them anymore commercially. I get a lot of enquiries about 7 string versions so yours would get a lot of interest.

If you are using three pickups...you will have to be clever with the switching...something that I always seem to have problem with. A super switch selector might be an interesting way to switch it, the sustainer being one of the selections.

Using the fernandes, it does apparently have a digital switching circuit but the details are secret so I can't really help with that. If you want to use this circuit and not make your own along the lines of the DIY version (which is what I would have suggested) you will need to work out a way to replicate the sustainer design.

The fernandes sustainer uses the driver with an active circuit so that it can be used as an active neck pickup and completely replaces it. It is unlikely my drivers would work well if at all in this way yet another reason to do your own circuit making your new purchase redundant.

So, post a few more details of the project, pickup types and and what you are wanting to do. We can but try to help...if anyone else has suggestions, feel free to chime in!

pete

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Looks like a great score...congratulations...

However, I don't know that you will be able to use it so much to get a seven string out of it. The DIY sustainer is not a clone of the commercial technology. It might be possible if you take some measurements from the driver and try and replicate something similar...but it is hard to say.

I was told that you cannot use a singlecoil to push the driver is this true?

If you mean, can a pickup be used as a driver...no it can't.

The pickups & driver will be custom made. Is there any pervisions I need to aim for ?

Are you making the pickups yourself? You are probably aware that most of my drivers have been conversions of single coil pickups and my later ones virtually invisible so this may be possible and no real reason that it won't drive 7 strings, it is only lack of a market that they don't make them anymore commercially. I get a lot of enquiries about 7 string versions so yours would get a lot of interest.

If you are using three pickups...you will have to be clever with the switching...something that I always seem to have problem with. A super switch selector might be an interesting way to switch it, the sustainer being one of the selections.

Using the fernandes, it does apparently have a digital switching circuit but the details are secret so I can't really help with that. If you want to use this circuit and not make your own along the lines of the DIY version (which is what I would have suggested) you will need to work out a way to replicate the sustainer design.

The fernandes sustainer uses the driver with an active circuit so that it can be used as an active neck pickup and completely replaces it. It is unlikely my drivers would work well if at all in this way yet another reason to do your own circuit making your new purchase redundant.

So, post a few more details of the project, pickup types and and what you are wanting to do. We can but try to help...if anyone else has suggestions, feel free to chime in!

pete

The pickups & driver will be built by custom pickup winder Will Boggs @ WB custom pickups.

I was told single coils in bridge may not push the driver ( I see no reason why not) I do want the system stealth .This one from ebay is from sustainiac not Fernadez so I am not sure what i got.

Thanks Flick

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The pickups & driver will be built by custom pickup winder Will Boggs @ WB custom pickups.

I was told single coils in bridge may not push the driver ( I see no reason why not) I do want the system stealth .This one from ebay is from sustainiac not Fernadez so I am not sure what i got.

Thanks Flick

You mean, using a single coil as the bridge pickup? I have heard this from some but I have made guitars like my sustainer-strat that not only had single coils, but cheap lower powered ones at that.

The Sustainiac might be more flexible to use than a fernandes, so even better...but they are very similar and so all the problems mentioned still exist.

If making a driver like the one illustrated in my pictorial linked below, a pickup maker could do it neater and more stealth. I am a little shy of lending too much support to pickup makers who may pinch the idea for commercial use...it took 5 years to get to this point, but it depends on the builder I guess. A secret project was recently done and the driver pickup built by the SD custom shop but they didn't know what they were ultimately building (the driver coil was built by me) :D hehehehe

Again, I am not sure that the sustainiac could be adapted to my designs and it would be highly experimental and even more difficult to get your desired "stealth look" which is a big feature of my latest designs.

I am currently enjoying my stand alone driver on my telecaster a lot...so much so, I need to rush out and get a new battery!

teleblue2.jpg

Had I molded it with white epoxy it would be practically invisible on this guitar...

pete

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Pete, you're such an inspiration! :D I just discovered this thread and found it very interesting. And I found answers to my main question : would it work with a driver in the middle position?

"NO, we haven't succeeded so far in this Grail quest" was the answer I found here

"NO, middle pickup position can't be used [...] because of Harmonic Mode [...]. Placing the driver in the middle pickup position forces harmonic string vibrations that are very high in frequency, and are "out of range" of the pickup signal because of high frequency phase shift." according to Sustainiac FAQs.

Well, too bad for me, it would have beeen a great thing on my future gorgeous Peavey Generation EXP, but I keep faith in the human spirit to find impossible solutions!

BTW, I am sure your wonderful minimalistic driver would interest lot of guitarists (along with the circuit plans, that would interest lot of companies, Fernandes and Sustainiac on the first place), even if chances for it to work depends a lot on the installation (yeah, I noticed that). I think you could have a nice business here, with admirers for clients B)

Well, I'll continue to read this fascinating thread, even though I understand nothing to electronic devices (except for some simple switches and selectors, a very important knowledge for a guitarist with modding ambitions B) )

Thanks to you all ;) (I may even have the courage to read the 268 pages, for I suffer at the moment from a quite painful sciatica which imposes some days in bed, from where I'm typing right now).

Please excuse my approximated english which is not my mother language :D (bonjour! from France, BTW)

Edited by JohnMcChavs
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Hello France...JohnMcChavs

I wouldn't want your sciatica to get worse (I know that pain a little)...so just potter through the more interesting bits.

Also...

"NO, middle pickup position can't be used [...] because of Harmonic Mode [...]. Placing the driver in the middle pickup position forces harmonic string vibrations that are very high in frequency, and are "out of range" of the pickup signal because of high frequency phase shift." according to Sustainiac FAQs.

Well...odd because sustainiac have a patent on a mid position sustainer but have never made a commercial version...the story I was told was "because players didn't like them"...but I suspect they were just covering their bases to stop someone else doing it.

In fact it is possible. In the sustainer sounds thread "Dizzyone" made one for a strat with a fantastic sound clip offered as proof. He was not a part of this thread and developed it separately and has long gone along with all traces...I still have this sound clip but had not saved the picture (it was very much along the lines of the sustainic) so if you can't find a link that works, let me know and I will try and find a link...it is a pretty cool track.

I built one again more recently...it is pictured a page back or so I think on a red tele. It does work but perhaps suffers a little from the kind of things that Sustainiac mentions. Dizzy1 didn't have a harmonic switch but could get harmonic effects by changing pickup selection...maybe this is a bit of a clue why. This last mid-driver of mine particularly had trouble with the combined pickup selection...but then is was on a cheap tele with single coil pickups so there were already a lot of high frequencies present.

Well, too bad for me, it would have beeen a great thing on my future gorgeous Peavey Generation EXP, but I keep faith in the human spirit to find impossible solutions!

That does look beautiful...congratulations. You would probably need another battery and things and may even be difficult fitting all the wiring and extra switches in anyway...it may not be a guitar you want to hack into anyway for such a project.

Still...why a mid-driver anyway? My latest tele-driver is working pretty well and could almost fit on that pevey next to the neck for instance. The pevey may also have an added benefit by allowing the use of the piezos for the drive signal...something I suspect the new Moog guitar is doing...also doing away with some of the preamp circuitry.

BTW, I am sure your wonderful minimalistic driver would interest lot of guitarists (along with the circuit plans, that would interest lot of companies, Fernandes and Sustainiac on the first place), even if chances for it to work depends a lot on the installation (yeah, I noticed that). I think you could have a nice business here, with admirers for clients wink.gif

Maybe...I do have ambitions in these areas, but it is a hard road. I may not have so many admirers if I sold something that didn't work so well because the installation failed! I have never heard from the companies (I'd really like to hear from pickup makers like Seymour Duncan who may better be able to exploit it) but they have so much invested already in their way of doing it and their products very good and more refined that they would see me more as a threat than anything. I can't afford any patents so I would have no protection.

Who knows though...I am considering making up some of my new circuits and maybe enough wire (if I can work out what to wind it to in order to post it) so that people can get a head start on the DIY project version. The reason something like this has not already been done is that hand making circuits and winding coils is very time consuming by hand and to get any kind of reward for this work I may well price myself out of this kind of thing. Boutique effects makers can sometimes get the kind of prices required but at least you know with this product, when you plug it in it works...without you having to do any assembly! Too expensive and you could by a legit commercial version that would work better I suspect...so Catch22!!!

The real reason that a mid driver is so desirable are not the reasons people think...choice of pickup selection, replacing a seldom used mid pickup...but the ease of installation IMHO. Without the need to bypass, all you have to do is switch the power on, as with a single pickup guitar...soooo much easier.

Of the experiments I have done, in every case I have had to make drivers so focused that the drivers virtually touch the strings (like an eBow) right in the place where most people pick...It is just not worth it to have this in the way. The mid pickup combination sounds are vital to your average strat player, so loosing that when the sustainer is off is also a down side in that the guitar has now lost sounds instead of adding to it.

The neck driver works and is probably going to always be the more practical solution. If I were to collaborate to design a "sustainer guitar" I may well suggest a single pickup guitar with neck driver and a piezo bridge plus active circuitry to get a wide variety of sounds and few of the complications of pickup switching as well. You could make a very streamlined guitar in this way that could do a lot of things simply and well.

I feel your pain as well because I have fallen ill again and as I write this it is 1:39am...so I will be returning to bed myself in the hope of a little more sleep. My ongoing ill health has really done the most to hold up any progress on more sustainer adventures as discussed above as I can't make those kinds of ongoing commitments right now. I am glad though that the thread has inspired people and maybe entertained or got people thinking and I know that I hear from people all over the world which is simply amazing still to me. It certainly provided a much needed distraction, kept me thinking and entertained...so I guess it will stick around for a s long as people are interested...

pete

Oh...I may be doing something on playing techniques and such and I will be hoping to get some new recordings up somewhere to demo the new guitar...so much to learn, so little time...but for now, it's back to bed...

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"NO, middle pickup position can't be used [...] because of Harmonic Mode"

In fact it is possible. In the sustainer sounds thread "Dizzyone" made one for a strat with a fantastic sound clip offered as proof. He was not a part of this thread and developed it separately and has long gone along with all traces...I still have this sound clip but had not saved the picture (it was very much along the lines of the sustainic) so if you can't find a link that works, let me know and I will try and find a link...it is a pretty cool track.

Mmm... challenging me? Great! I have time :D

I'll do a search, it sounds very interesting.

I built one again more recently... it is pictured a page back or so I think on a red tele. It does work but perhaps suffers a little from the kind of things that Sustainiac mentions. [...] This last mid-driver of mine particularly had trouble with the combined pickup selection...but then is was on a cheap tele with single coil pickups so there were already a lot of high frequencies present.

Yes, I saw it and thought that you abandoned it for a good reason... It seems to be the case indeed.

Well, too bad for me, it would have beeen a great thing on my future gorgeous Peavey Generation EXP, but I keep faith in the human spirit to find impossible solutions!

That does look beautiful...congratulations. You would probably need another battery and things and may even be difficult fitting all the wiring and extra switches in anyway...it may not be a guitar you want to hack into anyway for such a project [...] Still...why a mid-driver anyway?

Well, this wondeful baby will even have Variax guts in it when I will have courage (and money) enough to do it. I bought The Peavey for 3 main reasons :

1) it already has piezo bridge saddles, so it is VERY simple to transplant Variax guts into it (I read a lot about these "transplants" this year and a half, there are real masterpieces done by guys like Jeff Miller). Well, at least it will be much simpler with this guitar.

2) I really fell in love with Variax abilities (yes, I know, it is modelization, not the real thing, but we all know that love is blind) but I also really hate the look of the Variax 300 I own : the neck is OK, but the shape of the body is so ugly to me that I have hard to call it a guitar. Moreover, I want a guitar with "real" pickups too, and even good ones. The day the Variax motherboard dies, I will still have a great working guitar (besides the look, more conventional with magnetic pickups)

3) I just love the Telecaster shape. So the Peavey was some kind of a miracle to me. Not the exact shape, but good enough for a guy like me who has already made a pact with the devil (yes, the modelization thing :D )

The Peavey has a HSH configuration. I already have great vintage sounds from the Variax (to my ears, let's not start a debate about that). I also heard about the new P-Rails pickups from SD labs (check the video, it's amazing) and though about having a pair of these to replace the Peavey's not-so-good active humbuckers (I know, best is good's worst enemy). Yes, you've just figured out what passed through my mind : "what about a sustainer in the middle pickup position?"

I then started to read a bit about existing solutions, but Fernandes and Sustainiac are not what I am looking for.

My latest tele-driver is working pretty well and could almost fit on that peavey next to the neck for instance [...] The peavey may also have an added benefit by allowing the use of the piezos for the drive signal...something I suspect the new Moog guitar is doing...

It's exactly what I wondered... Is there enough place between the neck pickup and the neck it self? I can't wait for the guitar to be here B) (I just bought it on eBay).

I also thought about the piezo signal, but I'm not qualified enough to figure how to do anything with it, as well as how to use the 9V powering Variax circuitry with the "sustainer" device. The power is indeed coming directly from the POD XT Live I use (I know, I just made my case worse), so it could be a nice feature.

The real reason that a mid driver is so desirable are not the reasons people think...choice of pickup selection, replacing a seldom used mid pickup...but the ease of installation IMHO. Without the need to bypass, all you have to do is switch the power on, as with a single pickup guitar...soooo much easier.

Well, that's quite the only part that I don't fear (I may be naïve B))

But the will to keep the stock look of a guitar without sacrificing the beloved bridge and neck pickups seems also a good motivation, although sacrificing the middle pickup of a Strat is stupid, as far as a great part of this guitar identity lies in the 2nd and 4rth position of the 5-way selector, as you mentioned it further in the post.

Of the experiments I have done, in every case I have had to make drivers so focused that the drivers virtually touch the strings (like an eBow) right in the place where most people pick...It is just not worth it to have this in the way. The neck driver works and is probably going to always be the more practical solution.

So be it. Besides, your neck driver is thin and good looking; I really like what you have done with this 25th anniversary Squier of yours. I will think about solutions... after a succesful transplant in the first place.

If I were to collaborate to design a "sustainer guitar" I may well suggest a single pickup guitar with neck driver and a piezo bridge plus active circuitry to get a wide variety of sounds and few of the complications of pickup switching as well. You could make a very streamlined guitar in this way that could do a lot of things simply and well.

More or less my project. Except I want it all (why not a great vintage middle pickup AND your slim neck driver?). I know : glutony is a sin.

I feel your pain as well because I have fallen ill again and as I write this it is 1:39am...so I will be returning to bed myself in the hope of a little more sleep.

Well, receive my sincere recovery wishes. Sleep is often a good medication, so sleep well.

I am glad though that the thread has inspired people and maybe entertained or got people thinking and I know that I hear from people all over the world which is simply amazing still to me. It certainly provided a much needed distraction, kept me thinking and entertained...so I guess it will stick around for as long as people are interested...

We'll be waiting for you ;)

Best regards,

Gilles

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Ah Gilles...maybe your clearer writing style will rub off an me, your posts read very well...clearer than most, and certainly mine!

Well, I'll continue to read this fascinating thread, even though I understand nothing to electronic devices (except for some simple switches and selectors, a very important knowledge for a guitarist with modding ambitions ... Well, this wondeful baby will even have Variax guts in it when I will have courage (and money) enough to do it ... (I may be naïve :D )

Maybe you are...that is a lot of work and a lot of routing and modifications...adding a sustainer even more so. I doubt that the original piezos will work for the variax, so you are likely to transplant the bridge of the original as well...This seems to be what Jeff Miller does (there was a thread around PG on his guitars)...

It is not a project for the faint hearted!

I really fell in love with Variax abilities (yes, I know, it is modelization, not the real thing, but we all know that love is blind) but I also really hate the look of the Variax 300 I own

I already have great vintage sounds from the Variax (to my ears, let's not start a debate about that).

Actually...I think that there is a lot of potential in the Variax concept and it seems to be improving all the time as far as interfacing with the power of computers and modeling quality. A standard Variax might well be an almost ideal base for a sustainer like mine as well with a lot of development and it really is something they should look at. Who knows who designed the actual Variax guitars...they are not that appealing and do a disservice to the power of the electronics inside.

A more approachable project might be a tele project like mine. Get a good cheap body and neck (or built quality squier or something like a back routed body) and route the body for the variax and bridge (remember to put in a variax a lot of the guitar's wood is going to go missing greatly effecting it's performance), add a good bridge pickup and a sustainer driver into the neck pickup slot.

It is one thing to want to mix the analogue and digital systems...but to add even more is really asking for trouble even if you have an idea of what is going on. The Pevey probably has active electronics to provide a proper mix between it's pickups and it's piezo systems and adding pickups if this is the case may be disastrous tone wise no matter how good the replacement pickup.

Asking too much from one guitar often works out to be a lot less...Jack of all trades, master of none!

The tele was a guitar I was working on (it has an LP sister in the works) and a sustainer was never intended for it. I was approached by a US luthier about a project, and later by the customer, for a guitar which has a similar number of features. 3HB pickups, extensive electronics and switching for them, a midi and piezo pickup...the works!!!! Plus, they want to add a sustainer but of course no commercial system would fit.

At first I said no...not possible. But then I said I would think about if it were possible "technically". Then I thought, well some of the demands would be similar to putting such a device on my tele (it would have to surface mount) so, having already the circuitry I built this test driver (failing with a couple of earlier even smaller ones in the process). This was the result, but for various reasons, I very much doubt that it would work on the project that inspired it's development.

For the record, the driver I made for the tele is 60mmx10mmx6mm(tall).

One thing this project has tried to get through to me is that some things are not possible and others even if they are (like the mid-driver) may not be worth the effort. Another lesson is that, just because you can do something, does not mean that you should...I had actually stopped playing with sustainers for most of the last year and musically been going in another direction entirely! Your new Pevey or even the Variax would suit this direction really well and the sustainer plays little in these things.

Still...now I have the sustainer back in a guitar and working...it is hard to stop playing with it...it certainly is a fun thing and will be great for recordings and such.

Potentially, a sustainer and variax sound like a good mix and I have mentioned it before but it is a very daunting project even for me and so much is unknown that any advice anyone could give would be limited.

The installation to me is always tricky...even on this tele there are 12 wires coming off my little circuit alone and sometimes some switch noise still (seems not to be a problem if there is any sound going through the guitar while switching though) but I only had to deal with 2 passive pickups. My strat has been sidelined for about a year because I couldn't get the complexity of the systems together enough! Every guitar has it's own problems it would seem.

Installation is also an area where the least work has been done. I seem to be one of the few people concerned about it and a lot of the projects completed have been done by replacing the neck pickup completely by a driver and so, with only one pickup, installation is considerably easier.

There are a lot of different forces going on...the sustainer driver puts out considerable electromagnetic interfereance, we don't know what effect this might have as far as noise with the variax for instance. We do know that it can be hard to do even with standard pickups. The quality of the driver construction seems to play a big role too as far as success.

Still...it isn't a bad idea to dream, as long as you don't have nightmares over it! The best strategy is to take one step at a time. Always people should not assume success with this, nor that I have all the answers! Anyone attempting the DIY sustainer project should build a driver and circuit and test it by holding the driver over the strings above the neck to be sure that they can at least get to this stage before they even think about modifying a guitar or installing one. A lot of people find that they don't even get to this stage. After doing this a while now, I am pretty sure of designs I have done, but still do this all the same. It took me an entire day to get the thing into the guitar successfully...more time than it took to build the driver and circuit!!!!

Anyway...enough from me...

pete

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A lot of the sound clips links on the sustainer sounds thread no longer exist. A few including the mid-driver and my track "beckistan" plus a few other demo things are available at 4tune8 Sounclick page for free download.

Hopefully I will do some new and better recordings in the near future however these computer things...not my strong point...pete

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Ah Gilles...maybe your clearer writing style will rub off an me, your posts read very well...clearer than most, and certainly mine!

Thank you very much, I read a lot through what I have written for it makes me practice English a pleasant way B)

[...] this wonderful baby will even have Variax guts in it when I will have courage (and money) enough to do it ... (I may be naïve)

Maybe you are...that is a lot of work and a lot of routing and modifications...adding a sustainer even more so. I doubt that the original piezos will work for the Variax, so you are likely to transplant the bridge of the original as well [...] It is not a project for the faint hearted!

Surely not, although the original piezos will definitely work. I read a lot about that, and fortunately every type of piezo saddle works for a transplant (Ghost Tech, Fishman and of course LR Baggs, event the T-Bridge!), it just sometimes gives a slightly lighter or warmer sound according to the pioneers that have done it.

Moreover, I have the Variax 300 model, and the wiring is much simpler with this one than with the usual 500, although I will have to make custom pots (like these ones, middle of the thread). The big thing will be routing : I neither have the equipment nor the skills to do that, so I will certainly go and find some help from a luthier when time comes to mutilate the poor Peavey... when you don't know how to do things, it's time to rely on professionals. When you see some butchers rout their guitars, you understand that everyone should consider his own limits before doing something irreparable :D

It is one thing to want to mix the analogue and digital systems...but to add even more is really asking for trouble even if you have an idea of what is going on.

The Peavey probably has active electronics to provide a proper mix between it's pickups and it's piezo systems and adding pickups if this is the case may be disastrous tone wise no matter how good the replacement pickup.

Asking too much from one guitar often works out to be a lot less...Jack of all trades, master of none!

Fortunately I intend not to do that : it will be either the Variax or the mag pickups, not a mix of both. A simple push-pull pot will select one system or the other. None of the Peavey's original active circuitry will be used in the final guitar. I fully agree with you : asking too much may be completely disastrous.

I was approached by a US luthier about a project, and later by the customer, for a guitar which has a similar number of features [...] One thing this project has tried to get through to me is that some things are not possible and others even if they are (like the mid-driver) may not be worth the effort. Another lesson is that, just because you can do something, does not mean that you should...

There are a lot of different forces going on...the sustainer driver puts out considerable electromagnetic interference, we don't know what effect this might have as far as noise with the Variax for instance. We do know that it can be hard to do even with standard pickups. The quality of the driver construction seems to play a big role too as far as success.

Still...it isn't a bad idea to dream, as long as you don't have nightmares over it! The best strategy is to take one step at a time. Anyone attempting the DIY sustainer project should build a driver and circuit and test it by holding the driver over the strings above the neck to be sure that they can at least get to this stage before they even think about modifying a guitar or installing one. A lot of people find that they don't even get to this stage. After doing this a while now, I am pretty sure of designs I have done, but still do this all the same. It took me an entire day to get the thing into the guitar successfully...more time than it took to build the driver and circuit!!!

Wise thinking, again. I am quite a beginner, and I intend to go for an Everest... But I am a very careful guy :D

I will proceed very slowly, step by step. I will first do the Variax transplant, for I have studied the process a lot the former months. That was my initial dream project.

Then, if it is successful, I may think about a driver, with the help of this thread and its advices (at least the ones I understand). The good point is that the circuit can be tested outside the guitar, and believe me : I will not try to put it in the Peavey's body before I am sure I can work and that I WANT it into. Your surface-mounted last project seems to be appealing to this point of view.

Thanks for your concern and this very inspirational work, and still my recovery wishes.

Best regards,

Gilles

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Thanks again for your well wishes and you nice letter...

Perhaps it will work if you can get the right help where needed and you obviously have done some studdy. I'd really like to see a variax version so if all goes well for the transplant, then perhaps then I might be able to help you out a little more. My system is a lot smaller than the commercial systems but you may need to allow a little extra space for switching, battery and small circuit (mine is smaller than a 9v battery and 10mm thick) as well as quite a bit of wiring. It all fitted in the tele, but I cheated a little in that it has a HB bridge pickup and I hid the circuit under there!

peavey_generation_exp_custom_acm_quilt_0001.jpg

Looking at the guitar a bit more, there is not a lot of room. However, the fingerboard actually extends beyond the end of the neck if you look carefully and a part of it could be removed to get a little extra space for a driver like my tele has. Further, there isn't a lot of height but there is the potential to cut out a bit of the scratch plate under it to get another 3mm which may be enough. If not, there is also the option of shimming the neck a little (BTW I think there is a piezo in the neck joint as well!) as it is a bolt on design.

Switching may be a problem all the same. It may be advantageous to run it from the variax pickups...but then again, it may be best to run it from the neck pickup alone as a standard installation...it is a tricky one. The probem is with the three pickups and the switching system but there may be a way of doing it using the passive pickup for the sustainer signal but only having it work while the variax is on. However there is potential...I dare say it could be done if you have the will and a bit of help. See how the transplant works and take it from there before modifying the actual instrument.

...

I have been doing a lot of playing and really getting to know the sustainer again. This is by far one of the best performing versions and is working significantly better now that I have adjusted things and put in a new battery. I even broke a string, something I haven't done in years :D !

Hopefully I will be able to record some things and put it somewhere it can be heard as the device is often a little misunderstood and sometimes I fear people have unrealistic expectations of what it does, while others significantly underestimate it's potential.

I have to find the concentration to learn my BR600 machine but I spent some time this afternoon playing through it and getting some great new sounds. It also shows that my circuit and the new "drive" control is quite a useful thing. I found a nice chorusy sound and fingerpicked simple open chords. The bass tends to predominate in sustain so you get this nice clean chorused sound with a sustained bass on the low strings that swirls with the chorus making a kind of organ/string pad kind of effect...very nice. Turn on the harmonic drive and the low notes morph into a harmonic that kinds of floats above the chord.

Turn up the distortion kind of effects and it goes into screaming Vai territory (not that I play, nor the guitar is set up for that so much). I found a harmonizor setting in thirds that makes for a very interesting Trevor Rabin like synth sound and it goes wild with the harmonic setting as it tries to harmonize a third above that into some unnatural super high effect almost like a whammy pedal effect!

The sustainer works really well with slide too...damping is pretty crucial, but the harmonic effect is really nice with slide too.

On higher settings, there is a little "fizz" but this is kind of intentional and expected with my circuit...turn it down a little and it is very clean with no hint of distortion. Driving the strings hard will create distortion in most amps anyway as the signal will be so loud that it overloads the preamp...a good thing really.

The only real down side is the switch pop. This still exists but I have found it switches completely silently if the guitar is making a noise...so if you switch while actually playing a note instead of between the notes...it is fine.

A toggle switch to activate it is pretty much mandatory and far easier to use. As the tele lacked space, I used a push-pull pot for the drive (I actually had to make this as it is practically impossible to get the necessary 1k pot in this format) but this seems ok for this function.

The rest of the guitar sounds great with a bunch of bright telecaster like sounds. The tremolo is nice too and is good for a bunch of sustainer effects...not necessary, but really useful all the same. I put a phase switch on the neck pickup and this gives the guitar a fourth selection that brings in a little of that mid pickup strat sound, without the mid pickup...very funky and great for chord work, so a worthy addition.

A secret feature of the guitar is a "Kill switch". The switch is so tiny it can't be seen in the photos and the technique is a little tricky to get used to, but it is a neat trick. The sustainer is great to work with this as you can hold a chord and just tap out a rhythm. It is situated next to the little LED and it is funny cause Your finger tapping the kill function lights up blue as you do it with the sustainer on....hehehe

Oh...I want to do a proper thread on this guitar and enter it in GOTM (though the competition is consistently strong) but as soon as I showed it at the telecaster forum obviously people want to hear it so I want to get that sorted first. I hope to get a few sympathy votes from you guys as in five years I have never entered :D

Too much fun, but now it is time to rest down under...so have a good day, where ever you are and thanks again for the well wishes...I fear I need all I can get at the moment...

pete

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Perhaps it will work if you can get the right help where needed and you obviously have done some studdy. I'd really like to see a Variax version so if all goes well for the transplant, then perhaps then I might be able to help you out a little more.

peavey_generation_exp_custom_acm_quilt_0001.jpg

Looking at the guitar a bit more, there is not a lot of room. However, the fingerboard actually extends beyond the end of the neck if you look carefully and a part of it could be removed to get a little extra space for a driver like my tele has. Further, there isn't a lot of height but there is the potential to cut out a bit of the scratch plate under it to get another 3mm which may be enough. If not, there is also the option of shimming the neck a little (BTW I think there is a piezo in the neck joint as well!) as it is a bolt on design.

I think you're right, Pete. Peavey says the guitar has 10 pickups... let's count : 3 magnetic ones, 6 piezo saddles... well it makes 9 for me. As far as cheaper versions of the Generation -the EX ones- have got ACM circuitry as well (Analog Acoustic Modeling) but no piezo saddles, I figured that there must be a global piezo pickup in the neck.

I also noticed that the Peavey's fingerboard extends beyond the neck pocket, and this is my best shot for your driver, as far as I would like any modding to be as stealth as possible. I have searched long a way of transplanting the Variax guts into a decent guitar body without having more than 3 pots, one switch and a 5-way selector (which is already the case with the Peavey), and found it.

Now I must think about the controls for the "Sustarmonic" (that's the name I give to your DIY driver, as far as I read you dislike the registered "Sustainer" name, which I understand very well : too limited :D). We're not here yet, and there's always the possibility of an external box, like the ones imagined with your fellow DIYers earlier in the thread.

The probem is with the three pickups and the switching system but there may be a way of doing it using the passive pickup for the sustainer signal but only having it work while the Variax is on. However there is potential...I dare say it could be done if you have the will and a bit of help. See how the transplant works and take it from there before modifying the actual instrument.

I will posts all the steps of the transplant in another thread, I promise! It is so cool for beginners to find how the others have done, and a picture is worth a thousand words!

Oh...I want to do a proper thread on this guitar and enter it in GOTM (though the competition is consistently strong) but as soon as I showed it at the telecaster forum obviously people want to hear it so I want to get that sorted first. I hope to get a few sympathy votes from you guys as in five years I have never entered :D

Be sure I will. Your Telecaster is gorgeous although you put a (great) trem and a(n incredible) sustainer into it. A masterpiece! I saw it first on the Telecaster.com and found it was really something, which led me... well, you know where B)

Best regards, keep us informed for the GOTM contest !

Gilles

Edited by JohnMcChavs
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No problem. The box idea didn't work because of the wiring...12 wires from the circuit plus all pickups multiple grounds and the selector, so it is not a practical proposition. Similarly, a dpdt push pull pot is not enough so this is not an option to switch it on and you would need another to do the harmonic thing. You could run it without the sensitivity control pot but on my circuit it is useful for response time...on basic circuits it is often left out. That still means at least two switches on the guitar.

This device is not as simple as it seems. The principle is simple enough, but the details of the construction and the installation is very important. Since so much of the guitars systems need to be bypassed or engaged just to turn it on, putting it outside of the guitar does not look like a practical proposition (another reason why a mid driver might be more advantageous!).

The more complex the guitar (and this will be a very complex guitar) the harder it is going to be, And the more, by necessity, you are going to be going alone into uncharted waters without a map with the project. Considering the aesthetics of not even adding a switch or to attempt mounting it outside the guitar when half the guitar is going to be routed out for the Variax seems a little much.

I wonder if Jeff Miller has ever added a sustainiac to a Variax guitar...might give some clues to the problems. Belew has a sustainer parker artist model...but even this doesn't have a variax in it!

Wait till the guitar arrives...you may not want to alter it at all once you get it. Routing out for the Variax will surely result in a dramatic change in the performance of the instrument. It may not be "bad"...a bit like a hollow body can be good" but it will most likely be different...

sorry to be a kill joy...

pete

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I wonder if Jeff Miller has ever added a sustainiac to a Variax guitar...might give some clues to the problems. Belew has a sustainer parker artist model...but even this doesn't have a variax in it!

Hehe, Jeff Miller made a guitar with a sustainer, but without Variax guts into it! So it may be a bit too tricky (with the commercial models, that's for sure).

Wait till the guitar arrives...you may not want to alter it at all once you get it. Routing out for the Variax will surely result in a dramatic change in the performance of the instrument. It may not be "bad"...a bit like a hollow body can be good" but it will most likely be different...

I intend to rout as less as possible : I saw some transplants with very few routing - even some with no routing at all. Variax circuitry is smaller than one may think once you've dismounted the metal shell and unsoldered the pots from the board. I know that routing is likely to change the guitar's acoustic proprieties, although Variax circuit doesn't bother that much lute-making.

BTW, one thing keeps coming to my mind as far as your driver is concerned. You use permanent magnets as the base of it in order to "grab" the strings, and then modify this natural field to make strings ring. My science lessons are far behind me, but I recall something like : "a conductor moving in a magnetic field creates an induced current that induces a force opposite to this initial movement" or something like that.

Is it then possible that, when the "Sustarmonic" is off, the natural magnetic field created by you driver's magnets prevents the movement of the strings (in other words : does it decreases the natural sustain of the guitar)?

sorry to be a kill joy...

Believe me, you're not! :D All advices are good to read, and I really think that as far as drivers are concerned, you're very well informed!

Being unable to put a "Sustarmonic" in (or on) my guitar is something I am prepared to, as well as losing a bit of acoustic proprieties of the Peavey if I have to rout the body (lightly or substantially). But he Variax 300's body is made with agathis (very cheap wood for very cheap guitar bodies). I'm quite sure the Peavey's basswood body will give me more sustain than it :D

Anyway, I'll keep you posted with the project's progress.

Best regards,

Gilles

Edited by JohnMcChavs
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Ok...I get a better idea...

Sunday morning here...coffee time...thinking better!

Hehe, Jeff Miller made a guitar with a sustainer, but without Variax guts into it! So it may be a bit too tricky (with the commercial models, that's for sure).

My version (an the very many variations people make up on their own) is no different in principle nor easier to install than the commercial systems. It is a little less "refined" as well whcih may in fact be a good thing. A bit more wild in dynamics at higher drive settings while the commercial systems are very even and kind of compressed. You can fix this with distortion or compression before or at the amp or when recording.

The main direction that I have gone in is to use simple amplification and concentrate on driver designs. As it turned out for me, the more compact design tended to work out for this purpose and so things like this one is possible or my other pickup/drivers that has been my personal focus in recent times.

Which brings us to this point which is worth looking at...

My science lessons are far behind me, but I recall something like : "a conductor moving in a magnetic field creates an induced current that induces a force opposite to this initial movement" or something like that.

I think what you are recalling here is how a coil of wire can be used to convert a magnetic energy into an electrical one (as in a pickup) or conversely, how a coil can transfer an electrical signal into a magnetic one (as in a driver)...However...

Is it then possible that, when the "Sustarmonic" is off, the natural magnetic field created by you driver's magnets prevents the movement of the strings, and then decreases the natural sustain of the guitar?

Firstly, on a personal level, I did a lot of science and maths and chemistry and even French in high school cause I was in love and in a relationship with one of the prettiest and most intelligent girls in the school...however, this is not my strong point and I failed to get any grasp of French at all. This would explain why she is a doctor now and speaks French fluently to this day...and I dropped out and went into music!

Ok...so I am no rocket scientist, just someone with stubborn perseverance who has to find their own way. That said...

A strong magnet under the strings will effect the strings ability to vibrate. But it is exactly the same as a pickup coils and magnets being under the strings. A strat is renown for creating "wolf tones" if adjusted too close to the strings because the magnets in a single coil can hold back a string from vibrating, deflect it out of tune or even create "doubled" tones by hitting nodes in the vibration and causing stray harmonic effects. HB's don't suffer from this because they are wider and have dual and opposite magnetic polarities facing the strings and actually work better closer.

A dual coil driver is perhaps a good thing, but at least twice as hard to make and require even more research and trial and error...a lot of people have mad successful versions like this as they also control EMI as well to some extent.

It is very important that the magnets are not too strong, a mistake a lot of people ignore and learn from it (hopefully). Some people naively think that more power from the circuit or stronger magnets will make it work better for instance...this is not true...it is in fact a balancing act.

So a driver with similar strength to a pickup should be ok...but it does need to be pretty close. In the tele driver, I shaped the blade to the curve and level with the actual fretboard...that's how close it is.

Before this one that uses common ceramic magnets (actually 4 of them in a row) I tried some rare earth magnets in an attempt to make it even smaller and doing away with the blade completely, but before I actually made it, I tested it by arranging the magnets as per the design on the actual guitar...terrible effects on the vibration of the strings and the neck pickup when that was used also! I settled for the ceramic magnets which together are about half or less the strength and size of a typical pickup magnet as it will be closer to the strings and put a blade on top of them. The polarity is the same as the neck pickup.

The driver adding to the magnetic pull on the strings is one of the reasons I have spent most of my efforts in pickup conversions. These use the existing pickups magnetic field so have no additional pull on the strings. There are other advantages as well...easy height adjustment and mounting for one...cost and professional appearance is another (it looks like the original pickups and I don't need additional magnets other than the ones supplied in the pickup itself).

The coils have very little if any effect...but the magnets can have and need to be chosen with that in mind.

I know that routing is likely to change the guitar's acoustic proprieties, although Variax circuit doesn't bother that much lute-making.

It is not that necessary, the true Variax creates it's sound digitally but it is a shame that they didn't offer a nicer instrument to play and designs that suited a number of different players. I suspect though, they were seeking a design that stood out and conspicuously had no magnetic pickups. It would be good if one day they got together with a fender of gibson or prs or anybody and allowed them to make variax versions...must be a profit thing I guess.

I think the variax thing has a lot of potential even if "digital" by nature. Digital effects and recording are very common now, even CD's are digital reproductions and over time as the processing power increases the differences will be harder to "hear".

It will never be the same as the actual instruments they model, but for consistent and versatile sound it is, and will, become more of a practical solution. With the present developments in user programming and interfacing with computers they are in part addressing the big drawback of modeled instruments, the ability of the user to upgrade, alter or create their own unique models. Otherwise, no matter how good the sounds are, every user will be playing the exact same modeled Les Paul or Sitar and the human ear will not stand for that.

Hopefully in time and through the work of guys like Jeff Miller they will allow the technology out so that people can have personal and individual instruments to their liking. To be fair on the Variax guys, if you were going to design a guitar that did not look like known instruments that would appeal to a lot of people...it might not in the end look that much different to what they came up with!

pete

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Hehe, you respond while I was editing the end of my post (nothing important changed). :D

The good thing about Variax is that you are not forced to have the same sound as other Variax players, as far as you can change everything in the guitar with the Workbench software. And when I say everything, it is not an image.

Apart the real strings and the useless body (except for a bit of sustain and playability), everything is doable : I made one guitar model that is a Firebird body with two LP humbuckers in series AND in bridge position (yes, just like the were at the same position, which is impossible in a real guitar), and I can choose the pots, positions etc.

It's quite illimited. You have 10 custom banks of sound you can store in the guitar without deleting the original sounds. The harder part is to try it, and being curious :D

Gilles

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Yes...now I want one...

But it does beg the question, if it can do all that (and I was really excited to hear about the Workbench aspect of the thing) why would you want a bunch of extra pickups, fancy switching and electronics. Does the base model have all the functions of the more expensive ones and full editing?

The big draw backs are the look and feel of the guitar. Perhaps an easier way to switch between a selection of sounds (I have seen but never played one mind you) and interfacing with outboard effects units would be nice. A good tremolo would be very useful and of course a sustainer might be an addition (although, they may be planning a sampling sustaining kind of thing with software, you never know...although it is not the same sound of course). A midi interface to run synths or program parts into a sequencer would be cool for recording. Ideally you'd probably want to run the guitar into a very neutral amp or even small stereo PA to get the best out of it as well.

...

I am going to start a thread over in the in progress and finished section for my new telecaster...so people may want to visit this thread...will add a link shortly. In five years here, it will be my first guitar shown outside of this thread and will introduce the sustainer and other features of this guitar and the kinds of things I generally have been up to, to a wider part of the community. Please visit...Blueteleful Telecaster Project

pete

Edited by psw
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Yes...now I want one...

But it does beg the question, if it can do all that (and I was really excited to hear about the Workbench aspect of the thing) why would you want a bunch of extra pickups, fancy switching and electronics. Does the base model have all the functions of the more expensive ones and full editing?

Absolutely. The electronics are quite the same, and the modeled guitars and the controls ARE the same : Variax 500 and 700 share the same initial 1983 circuit, while Variax 300 and 600 have more integrated pots and selector but the same motherboard. So, the only differences between two physical Variax models are the woods used, presence or absence of a trem and the quality of lute-making.

Quite amazing to think that a 400$ guitar can sound like the 2000$ one :D . Not the same playability though.

The only thing you need to have the biggest custom shop on earth is either buy the Workbench software with its USB interface or owning a POD XT Live, POD X3 Live or Vetta II amp. In this case, it is free to download, you just need a standard USB cable to plug into your computer.

A limitation, though : you can only use the bodies, pickups, switches, pots of the 28 vintage guitars modeled, but in any combination. That is why Workbenchers use tricks like two humbuckers seried on the bridge position : it allows more "modern" soundings. Oh, I forgot : you can also create every open tuning you could think of, and have it stored (associated with a guitar) in the banks of the guitar. Alternate tuning with the speed of a switch, even EVH wouldn't have dreamt of it!

Oh, and you need a Variax, of course B)

The Variax 300 has just been discontinued (I think Line6 realized how stupid was the difference in price while there is so less difference in sound). I think they are preparing the next step as all Variax owners received a poll to know what we would like in a hypothetic new Variax. Well, lot of us asked for separate electronic parts ieasely transplantable into a custom made guitar, but I think they don't care.

Sure, it may be not the originals (well, two Stratocasters from the same year does not even sound the same, so how a modeled one could sound like all of them?), but it's great for a guy like me. And well, if it's OK for Steve Howe, I think I can cope with it. B)

The big draw backs are the look and feel of the guitar.

This thing is ugly. Even the high level 700 is. But I found a surprisingly good neck on the 300. When I close my eyes, I can imagine this guitar is wonderful :D

This is why I want it in another body. Why magnetic pickups? For I prefer the look of a guitar with real pups, and that I want to have a functional guitar even if the Variax thing stop working, or if Line6 does not make a support to it anymore. This guitar will be my main one, and I want to feel good about its look too.

Perhaps an easier way to switch between a selection of sounds (I have seen but never played one mind you) and interfacing with outboard effects units would be nice.

Well it's the case if you have the devices listed higher. When I change a sound on my POD XT Live, it changes (only if I want BTW) the modeled guitar I use. I then can choose the best sounding guitar with each sound or modeled amp. That is why I am so found of this system.

Ideally you'd probably want to run the guitar into a very neutral amp or even small stereo PA to get the best out of it as well.

That's what the PODs Live are intended to.

By the way, I made a mistake : Jeff Miller did realize a sustainer Variax with magnetic pickups, a link you put in the Sustainer Sound thread.

vax_dcs86.jpg

Have you heard him play also? This guy is killing me : so gifted for lute-making, electronics and playing... should be forbidden.

I'm going to pay a visit to your new thread, I had noticed the new link in your signature because I am reading the monster thread at the moment, and am very moved by the human events that happened along these years. Joys, pains... life.

Sorry for my extreme enthusiasm for Line6 products, it is not the place to discuss about it, I know. But when I first heard about the guitar, a friend of mine told me : "well, it must be cool, but it's the kind of guitar you can't fall in love with". I agreed. I'm not shure about that anymore, after 8 months of cohabitation.

Best regards,

Gilles

Edited by JohnMcChavs
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Thanks Gillies and all the other people who have visited the Blutelecaster thread (see link at end of post) I hope it gives people some confidence and I will try and get some kinds of sound up to show not only that it looks good, but sounds good too!

I'm going to pay a visit to your new thread, I had noticed the new link in your signature because I am reading the monster thread at the moment, and am very moved by the human events that happened along these years. Joys, pains... life.

Life Hurts...everyday, in everyway...it's a symptom of being alive I guess :D

By the way, I made a mistake : Jeff Miller did realize a sustainer Variax with magnetic pickups, a link you put in the Sustainer Sound thread.

I thought so, remarkable guitars and yes, a remarkable player :D ...I thought I'd seen one, in which case it obviously can be done. Most likely he takes the signal from the bridge humbucker and I suspect would work very well with the Variax electronics.

That is a shame they have stopped making the cheaper 300, I think there is a lot of future in the concept and the more conversions made I( guess the more pressure there will be to offer different styles or to let the electronics out...business, you know.

I guess it is similar to my feelings about the sustainer stuff, if I were to sell something unpredictable with so much hinging on the installation skills, it might look very bad. Fernandes for a long time only offered it in their guitars, Sustainiac offers an installation service and recommends "licensed" or at least professional installers. Perhaps that is a consideration with the Variax too...

I guess the thing is to get it easier and more adaptable or at least develop the knowledge to adequately guide the thing to success. One of the successes of Bluetelecaster project was the ability to iron out a few things and make a few more discoveries towards that end.

pete

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Hi everyone! I'm new here.. I'd like to build a sustainer to put it in my guitar.. I've read many of these pages but couldn't find precise infos (because of my poor english, I'm from Italy).. I shouldn't have problem to build the circuit for the preamp (I've made several stompboxes), but I can't understand how to make the driver pickup..

what do I need to build that?

it is possible to build a fully working sustainer?

thank you very much.. I hope you can help me :D

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