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Sustainer Ideas


psw

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I really think many problems can be solved by "time sharing" a device that both "transmits" and "receives" in that for a certain amount of milleseconds, it is used as a pick-up and for a certain amount of milleseconds, it is used as a sustainer driver.

There are huge problems with this concept..."back EMF" for one thing, clock noise for another...I had even scarier plans at one stage early on...

Now...ask yourself...what problems are you attempting to solve with such a complex scheme? Any electromagnetic device must put out a fair amount of energy in order to drive the strings...therefore by definition it will be emitting EMI...so it won't get you closer to the bridge pickup...would it drive the strings any better than the more simple approach...if so how?

A driver could be used as a pickup...but it is not the ideal device, so needs to be heavily electronically comprimised to act as a pickup and possibly compromised as a driver as well! Why take the signal from the driver instead of the guitar signal since it is there already and built to do that?

The problems with your early attempts was that your device was grossly inefficient...so instead of drive you got heat and you had to pump insane amounts of power into it to get any drive motion over and above that. The secret to success in my later designs is to make a more efficient driver that runs more in phase and holds less magnetic energy and so run quicker and cool.

It is a thought...but possibly not a good one...still it took me months to get over similar ideas...

pete

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Hello everyone. You may remember me from way back in the thread. I apologize for not continuing my research here, but other things got in the way. I was simply too busy to do any more sustainer tinkering.

I am getting back into it again though, and I hope I am able to offer a lot more help than I was able to before. Since I was last here, I have learned a ton about electronics and circuits. I completed an entire all-tube 50 Watt amp from scratch, and have been learning and experimenting with (tube) circuit design. When I read back over my old material and looked at the sustainer ciruit schematics, I was amazed at how easy to understand they are -- and I was amazed that just a few short years earlier, I had no idea what the components in even the simplest circuit were actually doing! I have also completed 10+ custom guitars over the time I have been away, and have modified countless others, so I hope I may also be able to help with research or questions in that aspect.

I re-read my old material on sustainers (most of it from this thread) and I was able to build an entire driver and circuit system in 2 days! This is the same exact stuff that I had spent months on before, and never fully succeeded. The system is installed in a guitar with a single bridge HB (wanted to keep it simple) and it works, but there are some small problems I thought I would post.

I used the old Fetzer / Ruby (sorry PSW :D hehe) with the mod discussed previously here. It has a +10uF cap inbetween pins 1 and 8 on the 386 chip. The circuit works at low volumes, but when turned up it feeds back or internally oscillates. It is NOT my driver oscillating -- it is the circuit. I have tested that, so don't worry. The only thing I can think of that might be making the circuit a little weird is that I am running about 3.8 volts on the J201 bias (which is supposed to be 4.5 volts), and I did not add the zoebel network of a 10 ohm resistor in series with a .1uF cap which is supposed to be added across the output.

Any obvious things stick out? Thanks guys, it's good to be back here.

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Welcome back MRJ

(Look Out for an email B) )

Good idea to keep it simple and a little practice and setting it aside can make a huge difference, BTW, have a look at my new one at the telecaster link below...and watch GOTM!

bluetele8.jpg

Featuring my latest version of "Surface Mounted" Driver... :D

SMparts6.jpg

.....

With your oscillation problems,

As always I suspect...it is the seemingly little things that count...

Any obvious things stick out?

YES....

I did not add the zoebel network of a 10 ohm resistor in series with a .1uF cap which is supposed to be added across the output.

WHY?! :D

The "Zobel Network" is there solely to stop oscillation, more so than the 10uF between pins 1 & 8 (this helps in high gain modes when it is bridge to stop regenerating high frequency gain and oscillation). The ZN helps to filter very high frequencies out and I think aids in controlling the oscillation that can happen at very high frequencies from back EMF from the coil.

The output cap (I use 100uF but some as high as 250uF) has trouble responding very fast and often this little filter helps to keep these extreme high frequencies out of the picture and so stop high frequency oscillation.

The other thing is that it is possible to be running it with too much power. I don't know if you have installed a gain control but a 1k trim pot between 1 & 8 in series with the 10uF can be an assistance there as it backs off the LM386 providing more clean headroom, over the gain pot at the input...probably saves power too!

I suspect installing the ZN and possibly the gain thing (which will give a cleaner signal) will help or fix the problem. As for the biasing...well, I am biased as I never liked the preamp section and have no experience, but if it is working it is probably ok and not likely the problem.

....

Great to see you back into it with more success and less frustration than before...the same with me, I have not been that active with all the things going on in my life lately, but the success of my new guitar has revewed interest and the amount of playing I am doing also...

keep in touch...

pete

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Let's see the sustainer army get behind this guitar and encourage me to go even further with the technology...there is no GOTM for building your own innovations, if you guys get busy maybe a sustainer of the month...hehehe...I'd win on word count of course!

Ahhhh....I guess you knew it was coming...entered the Blueteleful Telecaster in the GOTM LINK

bluetelekill1.jpg

If you like this guitar (what's not to like), if you like to see what can be done with guitar modification, if you like innovation and something a little different and nuvo-retro-cool, if you like pickguards B) and have voted enough for the grain of the wood, if you have ever tried to read the sustainer thread B)(come on, at over 170,000 views, it can't all be me!)...vote (or at least make a nice comment when the time comes!)...

I will be attempting to post some sound clips before it is time to decide...shameless self promotion I know, but the guitars in GOTM are so good, I have never had the guts to enter before...like a school girl on her first prom... :D ...no really!

pete

P.S. If the guitar is up against pointy black metal machines, think of this guitar as ironic...it does a good job at that with full trem kill switching and outrageous feedback potential. If up against the recent crop of fine woody multi-string bass's lately..what can I say, this one is for the guitar players and modifiers around here... :D

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The "Zobel Network" is there solely to stop oscillation, more so than the 10uF between pins 1 & 8 (this helps in high gain modes when it is bridge to stop regenerating high frequency gain and oscillation). The ZN helps to filter very high frequencies out and I think aids in controlling the oscillation that can happen at very high frequencies from back EMF from the coil.

Oops. I totally forgot that it would stop circuit oscillation. I thought somehow it was only a guard against speaker/driver oscillation. I'll have to hunt down some more parts and add one!

The output cap (I use 100uF but some as high as 250uF) has trouble responding very fast and often this little filter helps to keep these extreme high frequencies out of the picture and so stop high frequency oscillation.

Okay, if you mean the cap in series between the Chips + out and the speaker/driver, then I should be good. I have a 220uF cap there.

The other thing is that it is possible to be running it with too much power. I don't know if you have installed a gain control but a 1k trim pot between 1 & 8 in series with the 10uF can be an assistance there as it backs off the LM386 providing more clean headroom, over the gain pot at the input...probably saves power too!

Hmm... I figured that the F / R design would allow you to run at full blast, but maybe not. This certainly could be the problem; I just assumed that the original designers did it right hehehe. I might try adding a pot there then. Before or after the 10uf cap though? Or does it really matter... Should I use a circuit mounted trim pot, or do I need to be able to access this control on the fly?

As for the biasing...well, I am biased as I never liked the preamp section and have no experience, but if it is working it is probably ok and not likely the problem.

It is working -- it may 'dirty' the signal a little, but who knows what effect and to what extent that will really have. I mean, it can't be too bad, since I've got the thing sustaining fine in fundamental mode even WITH that horrible feedback going on. I even got some harmonic mode action.

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Now...you know better than most how these details can really mess with things.

You need the Zobel Network, a 1k trim between 1 & 8 either side of the of a series 10uF cap is fine and can really help. No...you don't want to run it at full blast as a rule, the cleaner the better. The preamp may have less gain but if it is distorting, you don't want that. Replacing the 220uF with a 100uF gives me a response I like a lot better and aids in driving the high strings...definitely worth experimenting with, lower notes in fundumental mode have a nice harmonic "bloom" to them as well that sounds more "musical" to me...makes those string "sing"!

Hmm... I figured that the F / R design would allow you to run at full blast, but maybe not. This certainly could be the problem; I just assumed that the original designers did it right hehehe.

No...if you read the post a way back...I have no idea what those ROG guys were thinking and I have never liked it nor used it (can't blame me!). The mods I have suggested are mostly directly from the LM386 Data sheet, why you would intentionally take them out is just BAD designing...all these things are there for a reason and shame on you for leaving things like the ZN out! :D

If you want to adjust gain, you can do it before the LM386 (I think that's what most F/R people do) with a 10k pot...you could try a 1k pot between 1 & 8 with the cap...but you may find it a problem easing off the power as there will be no limiter...so this is a little more complex again...

It is working -- it may 'dirty' the signal a little, but who knows what effect and to what extent that will really have. I mean, it can't be too bad, since I've got the thing sustaining fine in fundamental mode even WITH that horrible feedback going on. I even got some harmonic mode action.

Well...it can be "bad" depending on what you think is "good"...I personally aim for exceptional and try and live with good!

You want to limit distortion and you may very well be simply running the thing to excessive levels...more power makes things worse, it is all a matter of balance. Even if you do succeed in running it with a lot of power all kinds of other things get in there (distortion, resonances, coil lag, etc) that upset the system and efficiency starts to drop.

This project is deceptively simple...simple circuit, simple coil design...but it needs all the help it can get to avoid EMI, fizz and oscillation and to get a proper response from it. There really is no excuse to cut corners and you will be denying yourself for the sake of 10c in parts the true beauty of the thing...also making it seem not as sensational as it can be!

pete

(check your email MRJ...something that might interest you... :D )

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Now...you know better than most how these details can really mess with things.

Hehe, yes I do!

You need the Zobel Network, a 1k trim between 1 & 8 either side of the of a series 10uF cap is fine and can really help. No...you don't want to run it at full blast as a rule, the cleaner the better. The preamp may have less gain but if it is distorting, you don't want that.

I know that... I'm not running it at full -- only about at half actually. I just thought though, that there should be some more headroom in the F / R design, but now that I go back over it, there isn't really. It is meant to sound like a dirty tube... but it is capable of pretty nice cleans as long as you keep it limited.

If you want to adjust gain, you can do it before the LM386 (I think that's what most F/R people do) with a 10k pot...you could try a 1k pot between 1 & 8 with the cap...but you may find it a problem easing off the power as there will be no limiter...so this is a little more complex again...

That is what I had originally in mind, until you mentioned the trim pot.... I think I will go with the pre-chip gain. Somehow I think it might lend me a little more control, but who knows until I test it.

You want to limit distortion and you may very well be simply running the thing to excessive levels...more power makes things worse, it is all a matter of balance. Even if you do succeed in running it with a lot of power all kinds of other things get in there (distortion, resonances, coil lag, etc) that upset the system and efficiency starts to drop.

Yes, I know this too from months of failing and inefficient circuits previously constructed :D . Once I get rid of the oscillation or whatever in my circuit, I think it will operate fine at about 40-50% power, from what I can tell. It may even become a lot more effiecient once the distortion in gone too, so who knows -- perhaps 20-30% will do the trick. I will add the parts to the circuit when I have some time...

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Good...

It may be able to run full blast...I use a new circuit which effectively has very little gain in the preamp and some automatic limiting but it can also run at full blast in my telecaster. At very high gains, even if you overcome the oscillation, you will likely get a little "fizz" but if you play with any kind of distorted sound you may like the effect for the sake of the wild feedback potential at high gains.

I know... :D ...I have been harsh on the F/R over the years, but failed to present anything better other than my mods and have now moved on in regards to circuitry. The biasing of the transistor always bothered me for some reason and I personally felt a bit like a thief stealing that design. Besides, I have no problem with the data sheet circuits, far superior and recommended for the LM386 circuit...it should be, they designed the chip! Why anyone would take out components from that I have no idea...even if it works, they are not worth leaving out...in this application where high gains and potential for oscillation and back EMF are obvious issues, this thing needs all the help it can get!

With suitable encouragement and if things settle down in my private life...I may well be making at least my persoanl design available in the near future... :D

pete

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I did get your email PSW -- but did you get my reply back? My email has been weird lately...

I think after class gets out Thursday I should have some time over the weekend to tweak my current circuit. I'm gonna add the ZN and a 10K pot right before the 386 -- as the data sheet shows. I will keep it to that for now, and see how the resulting circuit works. If it is not optimum, then I'll try some of the other stuff (like maybe eliminating the JFET all together to clean up the signal a little...)

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No...I didn't get an email back...I was wondering what happened...but I am glad you got mine...resend again, make sure the title doesn't have any spam like message or anything as it may get filtered, though I checked the junk folder too...

It is kind of exciting and I hope it works out so I can share a little more about it... :D

I'm gonna add the ZN and a 10K pot right before the 386 -- as the data sheet shows.

Yes, you are going to want to be able to weak the gain and if you are getting parts, a 100uF cap is really worth experimenting with (you can even exchange the 100uF power smoothing cap (you did put on of them in?) with the 220uF at a pinch...the power cap value is not crucial as long as it is high enough).

I'll try some of the other stuff (like maybe eliminating the JFET all together to clean up the signal a little...)

You can't ditch the JFet preamp section altogether, you at least need a buffer (like the ruby with suitable mods)...that data sheet is only what the LM386 requires to be happy at high gains...you still need to prevent the loading on the guitar with some kind of preamp.

Perhaps I will release my circuit in the nearer future already built up :D ...but no promises as yet...but it is a possibility. I wonder if there is a real "market" (albeit small) to make it worth while...at least it could be tested to work, be more compact and have some gain control, improved drive control and LED power options over the general DIY things. Also, a direct interchange with whatever people are already doing.

Try not to be tempted to make compromises and leave off a silly little 5c component here and there...

pete

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Email resent...

Don't worry, when I was talking about eliminating the JFET, I was considering maybe using another 386 or similar IC chip as a preamp stage in stead. I know there is not enough initial gain from the guitar to drive the circuit. But that is only something to consider if the mods are not sufficient.. we'll see.

Edited by mrjstudios
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Don't worry, when I was talking about eliminating the JFET, I was considering maybe using another 386 ir similar IC chip

For anyone who might be reading this exchange...the issue is input impedance and a poweramp chip like a LM386 needs a preamp circuit such as a JFet or opamp. Typically these circuits and a little more complex to create.My main problem with the ZF/R has always been the need to manually bias the JFET with a bulky trim pot taking up space and often causing troubles for builders (as has been the case here in not getting the specified voltage (which reminds me...are you using a new battery putting out a full 9 volts, MRJ?)

The "fetzer" preamp stage was also designed to produce a pleasant distortion characteristic similar to a fender valve stage...this is not an audio quality that we seek in this case...we actually what a stable hi-fi type of sound...but the F/R is a compact and clean enough amp to do the job and over time has become a default standard.

An alternative may be the "ruby" circuit with the additional mods to the LM386 part I suggested for stability of the LM386, especially if the pickup already has some power. Man higher powered pickups are designed to overload preamps to produce distortion characteristics which we may not want in the sustainer circuit as well...so this may also be something to consider.

I'll be looking out for the email...good to see you working on this again MRJ...

pete

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Hi sustainer fans...

I have finally got some sounds of the Blueteleful Telecaster project including a bit of sustainer stuff for you to enjoy. For a run down of what you are hearing, go to page two, last post of the telecaster project. The whole thing was improvised and was intended to show off the guitar as a whole as well as the sustainer. I purposely used a very clean sound with no compression or noise reduction so you can hear it 'au natural' and the whole thing was done in one take as an improv.

bluetele9.jpg

A distorted sound or running through an amp (this was done wiuth headphones direct very late at night) obviously helps. Before someone remarks on the apparent "fizz" in a lot of the sounds, the battery is starting to run flat (again) from playing the thing too much. A new battery increases the clean headroom. Any kind of distortion will effectively disguise that "fizz" regardless.

Even so, it is still quite effective and demonstrates the differences between my device and the commercial units.

Remember, this guitar is entered in next months GOTM so if you like it...you know what to do (I felt I needed to up the anti since my competition is very strong!)

Anyway...click the links below...blue for the build thread...red for the sound...enjoy...

pete

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All...

This thread has been a little quiet in recent weeks but I have noticed many visitors, especially guests. I would suggest that people don't attempt to read this thread, that is not the purpose of it. Reading the last few pages may give you an idea where it is up to at the present time...but feel free to join as a member and ask questions. A good place to start is to look at the links at the bottom of this post to the tutorial and pictorial sections.

Speaking of which...my telecaster sustainer guitar with stand alone driver is entered in the GOTM competition this month. The entries are very high quality and worth a look and are as diverse as ever...October GOTM...should be yet another highly contested competition!

For even more details on this guitar the blueteleful thread that describes this guitar and the latest of a long line of my own personal sustainers can be seen here...LINK

Additionally, sounds of this guitar and a few sustainer demos are available here...LINK and I added the rest of the improv with a further strange sustainer solo today.

Meanwhile, I have been busy with domestic concerns but there will no doubt be further developments from me in the future as well as news on a project that has been in the works for a while in collaboration with a fine US custom builder...

Feel free though to answer questions or join up and become a part of the PG community...

best wishes to all...

pete

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Hey -- I've been checking the site, I have just been majorly sidelined in my own sustainer project... I still don't have the parts I need, and I have been mostly working on a custom amp which has never quite had the bugs worked out of it... and now my backup 5150 is down... some previous owner did a BAD bias mod, etc, etc.... I can't tell if the powertubes are happy or about to catch on fire :D:D So now I am modding that amp and the custom one...

Anyway, I hope to totally rebuild the F/R circuit soon with ALL mods, and maybe 1 or 2 more. I know my driver is good -- it works really well even with a gritty sounding, (JFET not biased right, etc.) F/R circuit. (It follows the generally accepted 'optimum' size too -- 3mm x 3mm cross section.) I hope with a better and cleaner driver circuit, it will really perform to its potential.

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Hi everyone,

Been a bit of a longtime lurker, I think I first found this thread when it was around 100 pages long, I see things have moved on considerably since then! Having recently rediscovered it, I decided it was time to join in! So far I've made a rough driver with a humbucker magnet and some 0.19mm wire, hooked up to dismembered computer speakers, just to confirm to myself that it does actually work!

A couple of nights ago I made a start on a Felter/Ruby on perfboard, but having since read through a lot of the later posts there seems to be a feeling that this isn't a particularly good combination. Had a bit of a trawl about for simple preamps when i remembered about a FET preamp in a cable I'd seen ages ago, here, which also has a normal version here.

As this has been designed with audio quality in mind, maybe it will be a better (cleaner) preamp than the Fetzer. To this end, I've knocked together a quick layout combining it with the Ruby:

render.gif

Only just finished doing it, it's my first layout and obviously haven't built it yet, any comments?

Edit: The 3 red pads are where the volume pot connects to the board

Edited by dibsmjf
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welcome dibsmjf

It looks ok and should be fine with a decent bridge pickup output (not a lot of gain in the tillman) but I am loathe to verify a layout until it has been built...it is easy to mis mistakes. The values look ok, C2 is generally a higher value like 100uF but it should be fine...this cap is for power smoothing.

Personally, I prefer strip board and have a tendency to break tracks and so squeeze things up a bit more...here for instance the layout is very linear and would suit this...but no technical difference and easier to play around with it in this format.

I've made a rough driver with a humbucker magnet and some 0.19mm wire

Be aware that the HB magnet will be edge magnetized...you want one pole up the other down so it will need to be on edge. Also that the driver is the "secret", there is no circuit mojo and the quality of the driver and the thin coil design, wire spec (0.19mm should be ok) and the potting are all important. Generally, a lesser quality driver will produce the effect and making a couple of drivers is often required if it takes a bit to get the idea of making them.

Sorry to hear of your amp woes MJ...still gives you an excuse to tinker with things when they go wrong...I'm a bit nervous around valve amps...so be careful!

pete

ps...dibsmjf and others...check out the blueteleful telecaster link below and this months GOTM (9 entries now!) and I added the second bit of the sound clip to the sound file. Still haven't got around to recording anything more just yet.

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Thanks for the advice Pete, made a start tonight drawing out the circuit on some perfboard, I did initially start laying it out on stripboard, but then I realised I didn't have a piece of stripboard big enough to fit it on, so perf it was.

Yea the driver I made was pretty weak, had to really crank up the juice going into in order to get it to sustain, I think it was going into harmonic mode as well based on listening to other people's samples. I also had tonnes of feedback if I moved it anywhere up past the 15th fret, I imagine this is because the shield of the neck pup is still connected even when only the bridge is selected (H-S-H with 5way). I've done quite a bit of work before with 5way super switches, I'm pretty sure it will be fairly easy with one of these to set things up so that each pickup is totally disconnected when it is not selected by the switch, as it can switch more poles than a standard switch.

Hopefully I'll get the board made up by the weekend, I've got guitars with HB and SC pups so I'll report back on how it responds. It seems to me fairly similar to the Fetzer in that they both use JFETs, if i get the first one working ok I might have a go at replacing some of the resistors with trimmers to try and get more gain out of it, any pointers which I should go for?

Pete the Blueteleful is absolutely stunning, all the parts just go together so well, the wiring looks top notch and most importantly it's totally finished and pro looking-something my mods never end up being! The last one of which was a HSS strat with individually selected pups, coil tap on the HB, phase switching on all 3 AND series/parallel switching. Now that was a mess, I ended up with 4 DPDT toggles, 3 DPDT sliders and a 7PDT rotary to do the series parallel switching which was comprised of a 6PDT with an extra 1PDT slaved off it-what a mare! Back on topic, whereabouts is the voting for the GOTM, I found the July, Aug and Sept threads but couldn't see the Blueteleful-any chance of a link?

Cheers,

dibsmjf

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Sure...some fine guitars...GOTM Link

Generally my guitars are a bit of everything...but now I only want what works.

Yea the driver I made was pretty weak, had to really crank up the juice going into in order to get it to sustain, I think it was going into harmonic mode as well based on listening to other people's samples.

Maybe not. The ground on the neck pup may be causing problems but using an amp designed for line signals loads the guitar...that's why you need the preamp! Modes are reversed by switching the driver leads or flipping the magnet.

5way super switches

Yes...this would work as it is a 4p5t switch, but it will replace one of the selections. The harmonic switch is a dpdt and could be a push-pull pot or simple toggle switch. It is possible not to use a drive control and just adjust a trim pot to taste.

pete

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Hey there again '68. I have had a few PM's lately...posting here with questions like this is best as the questions and answers can help everyone in one hit.

1. Can I use a normal single coil pickup, if so can I reuse the wire?

Do you mean...take the wire out of a single coil, block up the bottom half and wind the driver on the top to make a stand alone driver (wont work as a pickup) out of the SC bobbin? If so yes. Unwinding a pickup is very impractical and best to cut it off. The wire in a pickup is hair thin and will break...there are thousands of turns, the insulation coating will get damaged and might cause problems if ever reused with shorts. If there is any kind of potting (usual) like wax...it will be impossible.

If you mean...can you make a driver out of a pickup...you can add a coil like I did in the pictorial linked below. A pickup can not be used as a driver.

You can not use pickup wire for a driver...0.2mm wire has proved a critical design feature, as is the thin coil shape and potting with glue as you wind.

2. Can I use a 1 watt practice amp as the pre-amp?

Possibly...but probably not...some circuit making is likely to be required. The most recent circuit above looks like a good one and pretty simple. This is not an "easy" project...short cuts and make dos rarely succeed.

3. How do I check the coils find out when I have 8 ohms?

You will need a multimeter. Set it on to a low ohms resistance level and test the coil as you wind it till you get the correct reading. Measure from the start to where you are up to without breaking the wire. You will need to scrape some insulation off to take a reading...also for soldering the leads when you are finished.

4. How would I wire it up?

First things first...this can be very tricky and depends on the guitar. Make sure you have read the tutorial and seen the pictorial...even the telecaster thread has pictures of the thing and the wiring involved.

Sustainers need space between the pickup and the driver...it only works with the bridge pickup and all other pickups need to be completely disconnected when it is switched on. With a single bridge pickup guitar it is easy...just connect the battery. Anything more gets very complicated...you need the switch to disconnect all wiring (ground and hot) to other pickups and the selector usually, select the bridge pickup and turn on the power...normally a 4pdt is required in a toggle format...again see the tele thread link below (and if you like it...vote 1 in GOTM!)

First though...don't take apart the guitar as a working guitar is needed to test the thing and if you fail, then no harm is done and you can try again another day. Make the driver/coil (you may need to take a few goes depending on how good you are at arts and crafts like sewing and such) and the amp and test outside the guitar by taking a lead from the bridge pickup or selector and holding the driver above the neck like an ebow, well away from the pickups. It should be possible to get a fair sustain out of it. If all's good, then installing it in the guitar and stuff can be looked at and with recent work I have done I have a much better idea about this kind of thing.

This is a tricky thing...it is not really "hard" but don't underestimate it. It is a balancing act of forces...more power will not create more sustain. A different wire will not work. No potting will fail. Years of trial and error came to develop it and prove these things to be true. Many have been made with success but none that I can think of that significantly changed any of these general details worked properly at all.

Still...if you don't mind risking failure with a new design, dual coils or something fancy...no reason not to, that is how I arrived at this "formula" and I am sure with enough effort and frustration and dedication...a different kind would work.

Also...a good working circuit is important...but the driver is the key. I am sure some here will chip in that early drivers with less quality control or corners cut have worked, but nothing like as well. Even in that tutorial, be aware that the poster did make changes and the thing did not work as expected (poor magnet choice, wrong wire, etc). Still, a lot of people with no experience have done this and succeeded, some the first go!

good luck...

pete

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Hi to everybody from Italy!!!!

I read all the page of this thread and also i want to realize the sustainer.

But i have some question to the sustainer board, i read that there are two modes to do it:

1)use lm386 amplifier(Fetzer/Ruby)

2)use tba820 and lm741 preamp (Strib's sustainer)

I don't understand the difference and what is the better.

Thanx.

Edited by totoxic
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Hello Italia...totoxic

You are not the first from italy, no doubt not the last!

So...I had forgotten about stribs but this new Tillman/LM386 looks promising though not yet tested and built...look at the original posts on this page above...

A couple of nights ago I made a start on a Felter/Ruby on perfboard, but having since read through a lot of the later posts there seems to be a feeling that this isn't a particularly good combination. Had a bit of a trawl about for simple preamps when i remembered about a FET preamp in a cable I'd seen ages ago, here, which also has a normal version here.

As this has been designed with audio quality in mind, maybe it will be a better (cleaner) preamp than the Fetzer. To this end, I've knocked together a quick layout combining it with the Ruby:

render.gif

Only just finished doing it, it's my first layout and obviously haven't built it yet, any comments?

Edit: The 3 red pads are where the volume pot connects to the board

I should point out that I am using my own circuit design at the moment and may be selling it so it is not for public use yet. The F/R will work and I have suggested mods to it in recent times. There is col's very fancy AGC version as well. I have only ever used my own designs but generally a low wattage battery amp with clean headroom is what is required.

Again...don't be mistaken. The Driver is the important part. The only reason the circuit can be this simple is that the driver is designed for it. A little history, I have taught myself only enough to get by mostly by trial and error and reading up for the circuitry. Lovecraft (R.I.P.) who is mentioned in my signature below also helped in the early days and was instrumental in my approach. He advised me that I should not worry so much about the circuitry and the patents and what others have done...but put my efforts into devising a driver that can work without fancy circuitry which we were ill equipped (who knows the actually qualities of a DIY coil) to design.

So...my thin coil, 0.2mm wire design is a result of that work over a very long time and has proven successful. Many have tried to mess with the circuitry with theories of their own...but these have generally failed. DOn't get too tricky...don't use epoxy even though I tend to these days...it is expensive, dangerous, ordinary epoxy won't do and I use a machine I made to make it happen...all of which costs money and is not necessary...check the pictorial as this driver works still today and was made in about 15minutes with wood glue!

What I am trying to say is that it is not so much as what will work best...but what will do the job. In which case all are good enough if the driver is good enough. My own circuit with some basic AGC will not work with a bad driver any better than these more basic designs.

Check out what parts you can get and what looks easiest for you to do well. These things aren't really that expensive to make so it won't be too bad...have you built circuits and rewired guitars before?

Anyway...sorry for rambling...a bit on my mind. I think that looking at my latest telecaster project (press the blue link below) or even hearing it (press red link) may give you a bit of an idea...also look at the other tutorial and especially the pictorial. And...if you like the guitar...it is entered in the GOTM so worth a bit of a look...GOTM...

Don't be afraid of asking questions here...I will help as much as I can and others...don't be afraid to chip in as well.

welcome aboard...pete

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Hello Italia...totoxic

You are not the first from italy, no doubt not the last!

So...I had forgotten about stribs but this new Tillman/LM386 looks promising though not yet tested and built...look at the original posts on this page above...

A couple of nights ago I made a start on a Felter/Ruby on perfboard, but having since read through a lot of the later posts there seems to be a feeling that this isn't a particularly good combination. Had a bit of a trawl about for simple preamps when i remembered about a FET preamp in a cable I'd seen ages ago, here, which also has a normal version here.

As this has been designed with audio quality in mind, maybe it will be a better (cleaner) preamp than the Fetzer. To this end, I've knocked together a quick layout combining it with the Ruby:

render.gif

Only just finished doing it, it's my first layout and obviously haven't built it yet, any comments?

Edit: The 3 red pads are where the volume pot connects to the board

I should point out that I am using my own circuit design at the moment and may be selling it so it is not for public use yet. The F/R will work and I have suggested mods to it in recent times. There is col's very fancy AGC version as well. I have only ever used my own designs but generally a low wattage battery amp with clean headroom is what is required.

Again...don't be mistaken. The Driver is the important part. The only reason the circuit can be this simple is that the driver is designed for it. A little history, I have taught myself only enough to get by mostly by trial and error and reading up for the circuitry. Lovecraft (R.I.P.) who is mentioned in my signature below also helped in the early days and was instrumental in my approach. He advised me that I should not worry so much about the circuitry and the patents and what others have done...but put my efforts into devising a driver that can work without fancy circuitry which we were ill equipped (who knows the actually qualities of a DIY coil) to design.

So...my thin coil, 0.2mm wire design is a result of that work over a very long time and has proven successful. Many have tried to mess with the circuitry with theories of their own...but these have generally failed. DOn't get too tricky...don't use epoxy even though I tend to these days...it is expensive, dangerous, ordinary epoxy won't do and I use a machine I made to make it happen...all of which costs money and is not necessary...check the pictorial as this driver works still today and was made in about 15minutes with wood glue!

What I am trying to say is that it is not so much as what will work best...but what will do the job. In which case all are good enough if the driver is good enough. My own circuit with some basic AGC will not work with a bad driver any better than these more basic designs.

Check out what parts you can get and what looks easiest for you to do well. These things aren't really that expensive to make so it won't be too bad...have you built circuits and rewired guitars before?

Anyway...sorry for rambling...a bit on my mind. I think that looking at my latest telecaster project (press the blue link below) or even hearing it (press red link) may give you a bit of an idea...also look at the other tutorial and especially the pictorial. And...if you like the guitar...it is entered in the GOTM so worth a bit of a look...GOTM...

Don't be afraid of asking questions here...I will help as much as I can and others...don't be afraid to chip in as well.

welcome aboard...pete

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Thank you pete, i'm a your fan!!!!

I understand your argument, I intend to make your pickup for the driver, i think that this is structurally the better.

My problem is the circuit,if I follow the feltzer/ruby's schemathics, i have the datasheet but i don't understand where i put the preamp. Maybe there are two circuits, one for the amp(feltzer/ruby) and another one for the preamp, but I don't found the datasheet.

Instead i follow the Strib's circuit i have the datasheet but i don't know if this is good for my driver.

I hope that you can help me and can you give me the info and datasheet for a "standard sustainer guide".

Thanx.

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