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Sustainer Ideas


psw

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Ok let's try that again...the 2y.o. turned off the computer in the middle of the post...doh.

Now...hmmm....right...ok second question....yeah I guess so, basically so there isn't an unexpected boost. Now let me explain.

The signal is taken directly from the bridge pickup, is amplified and sent to the driver right up against the neck pickup. In this mode it is just like current sustainer systems but with a few unique quirks from the hex drive design (oops, I mean features!).

Now then, let's consider the selection of the neck pickup. What you get is the signal from the strings as sensed by the neck pup but mostly you get the signal from the driver. This is of course the bridge pickup but heavily amplified and transferred by the driver (which also colors the sound) by induction...just as in a transformer...into the neck pickup and hence the guitar's signal chain.

This creates a very, very powerful boost, an interesting distortion and infinite sustain. It may prove to be a very effective power saving feature as the gain needs to be reduced...less gain, less power. It's also a sound that I think many will prefer.

Somehow this boosted tone needs to be brought under control. You can't turn the gain down too much or you loose the infinite sustain effect and the decay of the induction drive is not pretty as the compression holds out till the note has no power left and then farts out!

Now the combined settings are problematic...significant feedback (high pitched)...which takes a bit to control. The phase of the pickups plays a role also. The mid pickup...when the sound can be controlled has an interesting reedy quality.

The thing is the neck pickup does not at all sound as you would expect (smooth and warm) but strident and vibrant with complex harmonics. I imagine some may find a use for the tone control (although I have to turn it down to zero to control the noise...but twisting the leads has helped so maybe I'll be taking that back!).

What I'm trying to say is that every setting seems to require certain conditions to be effective...at least at this stage of development. I'm rapidly getting out of my depth but am learning fast with this circuitry stuff. That's another reason for considering digital electronic switching...infinite number of potential poles!

So, I guess I thought I'd cut my loses and just get the two main sounds easily available. I can see it being quite neat in a way to switch between one setting of pickups instantly to a sustainer setting and back with the flick of one switch.

On the other hand, I had always envisioned the sustainer having a tiny momentary switch, perhaps on the driver end, so that it may be activated with a spare right hand finger for the occasional note or chord. That way it would work seemlessly into a players style and become an extention of the instrument and not just a 'now it's on, now it's off' effect. That is what I really hope for this thing in the long run.

Now, if something was to control the guitar's output, using the bridge pickup signal as a reference point I'd be getting closer to this idea. It may even solve the pickup selection question.

My idea of using a rotary switch was that I could preset a selection of sounds using filters and the two main drive modes.

I hope that helps a bit with my problem which is hindering some of the circuit design as it's getting a little complicated for my flustered mind at the moment. Or perhaps that's why it's getting complicated!

Now, I was looking through my box of tricks and found a rotary encoder with a push button switch. It's got a lovely clicky feel to it's infine rotation. It wasn't cheap (about $10) but it is very thin and compact. Perhaps it could be implemented as a super drive/selection/tone control. I'm imagining smooth and warm to bright and loud sounds.

But, for my current version, I'll stick to my toggles unless the number of poles get ridiculous and the switches too large.

I'll try and mock up my external box idea...do you reckon it's a goer.

If you can imagine LK what all this is about and how the circuit could be blocked up, I'd appreciate it...logic is beyond me and it's late.

It's also very, very hot down here this week! :D

(37C)

psw

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OK, I cleared off my bench and I've got something that may help you with gain control - if you've got the time and the interest, try temporarily replacing your current preamp with this circuit:

logamp.gif

It's basically a logarithmic amplifier (a throwback to my analog computer days), and it simply produces small (logarithmic :D ) changes at the output in response to large changes on the input (it's also the circuit that the Tube Screamer is based on, but without the massive gain). It will distort the signal somewhat, but the output produces a smooth, rounded peak on the waveform that should drive the string nicely without slamming it like a clipper would. I think I've got this scaled to work with most pickup output levels, and a 100 to 1 change on the input yields about 2 to 1 on the output. Be sure to use a cheap low-bandwidth chip like a 741 to keep the highs tamed, and it may solve some of your problems, provided it doesn't raise the noise floor to unbearable levels (noise reduction is also possible, but hopefully not necessary). Adjust the output to the point where it's just driving the string consistently. Anyway, that's my public domain two cents! B) Let me know how it works if you get around to it.

Now to see what I can do about oscillation - back to the lab, Igor!

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Nice one LK!

So, I see a couple of clipping diodes there...could they be removed to make a clean output tamer?

If the output could be tamed, perhaps pickup selection might fall into place with a tweak here and there!

psw

Oh...you get though that the boost is occuring in the guitars output, having crossed over via the neck pickup by induction, right? Therefore it would mostly have to attenuate the guitar's output...hence the "surgury" to the guitars electronics besides just taking a line out for the signal.

Edited by psw
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A little hit and run there LK...guess you didn't notice I had woken up when you posted that...never mind, it's already tomorrow here :D .

Now after another look at it, perhaps there is some potential for it in the drive circuit, the overdrive effect may drive the string quite nicely anyway and give the "induction drive" a nice color too!

I can imagine people never turning the thing off...I'll have to buy shares in Eveready!...you could just turn the sustain control knob from none to beserk and the pickup selector to achieve your distortion quota.

What I had thought is some kind of circuit where the guitar's output is referenced by the signal from the bridge pickup. So when the neck "induction" mode is selector-ed and the other various combinations, the circuitry would automatically reduce the output to the level of that signal.

Hopefully then, although you wouldn't get the boost, you would get the color of the "induction" modes.

There could be a risk that it would attenuate the drive signal too low to create the infinite sustain giving the farting decay rather than the singing sustain.

Oh and here's another question. Some sustainers seem to have three harmonic settings. One called mix (fundumental and harmonic at once). Is this really possible...how can the string vibrate at both frequencies at once without just leaping from one to another. I know you get a fade out from one into the other so there is a little while where both are heard...anyone got any ideas how it's done?

psw

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I kind of got the impression that the mode you mentioned is similar to a note fading into a feedback harmonic, like when you face a loud amp. I don't know how they would do it otherwise...

For people who always have the driver on, it might be nice to have a momentary switch for a gain/sustain boost, sort of like what you mentioned, but as a boost to turn up the sustain control instead of power to the driver. As for power, maybe it could run off phantom power? I know I'd like that.

There are a lot of different control options you could offer. Personally, I'd want a switch like this, instead of a toggle: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cata...%5Fid=275%2D011 I like the switches they have on the synth equipped Strat. It would be easier to just tap a switch that's near the strings (could be next to/near the volume knob on a Strat) than flip a switch; this way if you pick near the bridge, you wouldn't even have to move your hand to activate the driver.

The external box is definitely a good idea, though I wouldn't want it. It's sort of like with synth pickups, you can get the external one that works fine, but if you know you want it permanently, it's best to have it installed inside, and some people won't like the look of a box on the surface of a guitar (If I interpreted your idea right). It's a good idea though.

When you're ready to package the whole thing, you could sell it as a loaded Strat pickguard, with all the electronics mounted to the pickguard where the control cavity is. I know that's not the biggest issue now, but it's something to think about for people who don't want to do anything complicated to install it, but want something more permanent than the box. On a Les Paul with a pickguard, the controls could mount under the pickguard, if there is space. That would also make it easier to install.

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..So, I see a couple of clipping diodes there...could they be removed to make a clean output tamer?
No, those diodes don't clip per se - the circuit keeps the gain low enough to take advantage of the inherent non-linearities in diode response to simply round off the peaks. If you want a distortion, you'd need to make the feedback resistor(s) larger by between 10x and 100x (put in a 100k fixed resistor and a 500K pot in place of the 10k pair, and you've got yourself a basic Screamer). This one works in much the same way a biased-diode triangle-to-sine wave converter does, and doesn't add a lot of harmonic content.

Oh...you get though that the boost is occuring in the guitars output, having crossed over via the neck pickup by induction, right?
No, that's what I was missing - so it's direct-coupling to the neck pickup, kinda like Ansil's design does (or at the very least, that's part of what his circuit does). That clears up why you want to bypass the selector switch! I suppose you could simply switch in an adjustable voltage divider on the output when you switch to "inducto-matic" mode. It could be as simple as a trimmer pot (for adjustment) wired as a variable resistor shunted to ground from the output signal path, and the switch lifts the ground for the other modes. Simple, easy and adjustable! :D
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LK

It could be as simple as a trimmer pot (for adjustment) wired as a variable resistor shunted to ground from the output signal path, and the switch lifts the ground for the other modes. Simple, easy and adjustable!

So for each selector position the selector would lift the ground...or, would the signal out of the guitar be somehow routed to a kind of mixer with each channel trimmed to that pickup or combination.

I don't know that the selector switch itself could provide the necessary switching, could it?

I wouldn't really want to compress the guitars output to maintain even volume...complicated, power consuming and would kill the guitars dynamics.

I had some idea that you could wire an opamp to reduce volume and somehow have the bridge pickups signal be used as a reference point...an automatic gain control, if you like, based on the strength of this incoming reference signal. It's not something I've seen but seems logically do-able.

Yes, the inducto-super-matic-drive-o-tronic mode is the effect of ansil's sustainer...at least from the time's I've made it. The difference here is that there is also an electromagnetic force working on both the strings and the pickup so that it can produce infinte sustain...something I don't think Ansil's sutain er-mod can achieve, and no-one seems to have shown otherwise (err...sorry ansil, that's a challenge if I'm wrong!)

For the record, Ansil's sustainer mod, even in only producing this effect is really interesting in sound...a powerfull and unique type of compression really...which, like a compressor keeps the volume up till the dying moments of the strings vibration.

Now, I've tried to mock up a block diagram of the signal paths but I have had problems because my (logic brain seems to be frozen lately...ctrl-alt-del time).

So:

bridge pup >>> buffer >>> preamp >>> filtering >>> poweramp >>> driver

bridge / mid / neck pup >>> selector >>> vol / tone >>> output

Simple enough...however

mid /neck and any combinations with the bridge require their own attenuation. That means that the selector must somehow switch in a mixer (even if simple trimpots), a channel for each selection.

You can probably see why I initially bypassed the selector and ran a line from the bridge and neck to an either all selector producing two modes...to keep it simple.

Ideally, though would be to keep the selector. In fact, the ideal would be to not interfere with the electronics at all and just take a feed from the output. That would mean that the incoming driver signal would change with pickup selection but create havoc with the driver/pickup interplay as the driver input and driver would be so close in the neck position that I can't see how the oscillation feedback (squeel) could be controled.

Ah, would it work if the attenuation came before the selector (he say's, writing out loud) and the mixer circuit be switched in (or on) somehow with the driver device? That way the guitar's signal chain would look like this:

bridge / mid / neck pup >>> mixer (attenuator) // bypass >>> selector >>> vol / tone >>> output

What would be required to insert this type of circuit in terms of switching. I have to keep the size and expense of switching down as hardware expense could cripple it as a project.

Which brings me round to Mr Vai...Fender had a push button strat...major failure. Push buttons have always been poorly recieved in the guitar world. That particular switch is quite large and is spst (ie very basic) mains power switch (250v). I did find a really neat, small illuminated computer power push button switch which has 4 poles but even that's probably a little large compared to these toggles and, as I say, push buttons have always been cursed on guitars.

So, unless someone can come up with some solution that fits LK's practical criteria:

I would concentrate on making the system bulletproof, stable and reliable across platforms (eg, LP, PRS, Strat, Tele, etc.),

I know that I have failed in at least one of my aims to have access to all pickups but the main achievement really is in allowing no changes to your choice of pickup and the alteration of the guitar.

I'd still like some feedback on my control box idea. A really practical one is available for strat owners. The recessed jack plate has below it enough room for a 9v battery. If I were to extend it a little and it was about 10mm thick, the jack could be relocated a little and the internal wires could emerge through the out-jack cavity to the surface mounted circuit/control/jack panel. I would locate the sustain knob behind and a little below the volume knob and a row of 2 or 3 toggles in a line below that.

For stud tailpiece guitars like a Les Paul, you could replace the tailpiece with a circuit box, perhaps even include the battery, with the controls behind the bridge in a kind of tailpiece arrangement.

Unfortunately, there's not too much room at all in your Ibanez and other types.

I'd like people here to be aware that the fernandes system works on TWO 9v batteries and must require routing to install. The sustainiac system only requires one but they install it and I bet they may require some chopping to get the stuff in on some guitars!

The control box idea makes for somthing reasonably thin (about the height of the other controls on the guitar) and, even if you dont have a strats recessed jack, you could take the line out from under the pickguard or bridge I guess and find some room for the battery elsewhere.

I take the point that roland's surface mount synth controller is a bit dicky but I'd be hoping for something smaller and better than that!

Also, If you had a mind to, perhaps it could be devised so as to allow the removal of the casing to allow for an internal mounting if your prepared to make room in your instrument for it and the battery.

Anyway, I'm open to other ideas. It just seems that by making an integral unit it is more likely to work as intended than to allow people the possibility of upsetting the apparently critical circuit balance!

I could also make it a little more modular with the circuitry internal and simply a control interface surface mounted. This would be smaller but require a lot of wires to go to the controls and back (at least 10 I'd say) but allow for these controls to be more easily relocated internally as well if one wants.

Where would you put all these controls anyway, I know on a strat you could sacrifice the tone control but remember LK's criteria!

Anyway, that's enough to take in for now, I know there's a lot of people following the thread and I see there's been renewed interest with LK's return...I know I'm a fan...but I hope everyone feels like they can contribute at this point as we're mostly talking about how this thing would look and feel on your guitar now and I'm at least in part doing a little market research so feel free...

enough from me

psw

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If that last post wasn't enough....I've got an update!

I just whent out and tried out the "sustain-odriv-a-mat-e-tron" device and can report, with recent oscillation control improvements...I CAN use the pickup selection in all modes (although some sound a little wierd especially the mid combinations, but they will work) however:

To be usefull, in sustain mode the neck pickup's volume (total output volume on the guitar's knob) needs to be turned down to about 5 (half way) and the tone down (for taste...the induction mode sound is a little grainy) to about 3 or even 1.

That implies that what is required is a trimmer vol/tone on the neck pickup when sustainer is turned on (as LK said earlier, I think?). By using the guitar's controls I'm turning down the whole output, which would also work but the combination would be more effective I think if the bridge wasn't being turned down at the same time.

What do you thin LK and others and how do I arrange the on/off of the sustainer to achieve this?

cheers

psw

ALSO : I see that the new look PG interface allows you to select an outline view. This is effectively an Index which I'm sure people will welcome on a post this long...three cheers to the PG team.

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:D Run that by me one more time - B)

I wouldn't really want to compress the guitars output ...would kill the guitars dynamics.
How are you going to get infinite sustain without killing the guitar's dynamics? :D You're skating dangerously close to pretzel logic there.

The only signal I'm talking about compressing is the sustainer loop signal, to make it less susceptible to both premature falloff and string overdrive. Simply smoothing the overall response, so you don't have to readjust constantly to keep it working - that was the problem that killed the Gizmotron® back in the day. That's what the log amp was for - just a suggestion to even things out. The guitar's output is going to be dictated by the sustainer loop, so there's no reason to mess with it.

As for the "auto-attenuator" for the "ElectroInductoAutoBoostamatic" mode, the plan was to place a trimmer pot in the guitar's signal path (as opposed to the sustainer's signal path) shunted to ground only when that mode was selected - in all other modes, the ground would be lifted, effectively eliminating the resistor from the circuit. I understand why you're doing away with the selector switch (and it's a good idea!), but I thought you still wanted to be able to use the neck pickup's output from the sustainer's switching system, so there's a simple solution for the level difference.

At any rate, these are just possible solutions for the problems you've mentioned - please feel free to ignore any that are non-productive, you won't hurt my feelings. :D

For the control box, I'd use a lightweight plastic box (like a Walkman case), and use those tiny thumbwheel control pots and slide switches that mount almost flush - I'd use a removable adhesive patch on each corner for temporary installations, and make provisions for a small detached control plate that can be pickguard mounted for permanent setups (personally, if it worked as well as I expect, I'd prefer it hard-mounted in my axe, just for reliability issues). Just make it look and feel like something that people are familiar with (hence the Walkman analogy) - the guitar market is still incredibly conservative (just ask Ned Steinberger).

<EDIT>Obviously we're typing simultaneously - I hope the stuff above explains my attenuator idea more clearly. The trimmer could be wired directtly to the neck pickup, and grounded when the sustainer is activated, so it would be completely transparent whne the sustainer wasn't in use.

Edited by lovekraft
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Yes, where typing on different days but at the same time...strange :D

OK, as my update says, the selector mode will work but the trimmer vol/tone will need to be activated on the neck pickup's output when the device is turned on.

This sounds simple enough so can it be done with the dpdt toggle I've got...if so, how so.

As, the bridge and neck will need to be run to the circuit, then the circuit should be internally mounted. With SMD technology it should be really small anyway and I'm going to mock up one of these very soon, possibly with your preamp idea.

It wouldn't need to be anywhere near as big as a walkman by the way.

Oh and, the guitar's dynamics are changed but not compressed by infinite sustain, at least in my system. The strings will swell in volume, potentially to the limit of the strings capability to vibrate at that frequency. It will swell from nothing, just by touching a note on to a fret. I think that the system greatly expands the dynamic range of the instrument. It may even be able to be adjusted to exploit these dynamic and harmonic effects with the infinite sustainer capabilities so low as to be ineffective.

cheers

psw

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This sounds simple enough so can it be done with the dpdt toggle I've got...if so, how so.

Wire a trimmer pot as a variable resistor (wiper to pickup hot, one end to switch), and set up your sustainer on/offf switch to short the end contact to ground when the sustainer is on.

Oh and, the guitar's dynamics are changed but not compressed by infinite sustain, at least in my system.
If the note sustains infinitely without decay, there is no dynamic range, regardless of what the level of the sustain is. Once the signal rises to a stable level (after the "attack" portion of the envelope) until the signal starts to decay, there is 0dB change in signal level, and since infinite sustain by definition eliminates decay, it also eliminates dynamic range. Regardless of how slow the attack is, once the effect reaches its maximum level, it becomes an über-compressor, and doesn't allow any change in level due to the feedback loop. I think the reason we're having trouble here is that you're using dynamic in the artistic sense to describe the overall capabilities of the system, while I'm simply talking about the voltage change over time on any given note at any given setting.

Seriously, if guitarists wanted more dynamic range, they'd be using nylon strings with condensor mics, not deliberately overdriving tube amps to get compression. B)

It wouldn't need to be anywhere near as big as a walkman by the way.
Hey, I'm all for tiny, but where ya gonna put the batt'ries at? :D Again, Walkman styling was more the point, so the little beggars that buy your system will already be familiar with the feel of the controls. Even my mother has a Walkman, and she's an octagenerian, so it's pretty much a universal item over here (perhaps less so in OZ, but still pretty ubiquitous - I'll bet even the Kiwis have a few :D ). OK, let me go take my medication before I start an international incident - no, really, I'm a huge fan of the Finn brothers, and I love feijoas, no kidding... Edited by lovekraft
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Hi... I've been watching this topic for a few months now. There isn't a particular reason for this post, i just wanted to show up :D There probably are a lot of people besides me, that are just watching the thread instead of posting. You're doing a great job psw, keep it up B)

...

emre

Edited by transient
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Well thanks transient...actually using the word sustainer might get me into copyright problems

how about something more poetic like...um...forever drive

So it looks like the thing is going to come together and fullfil the original criteria somewhat, now that's a surprise.

I'll try and put together a block diagram of the circuit and guitar modifications that will be required.

I'll also put together something pretty much finished for a driver with illumination provided by surface mount LED's. I'm not sure if I can realistically get the thing smaller than 6mm wide which means that a two humbucker guitar may have to have it mounted nearer the bridge and comprimising performance or have the pickup moved a little from the neck to fit it in.

Thanks for the input and all the other guests and members who don't wish to be known.

see ya

psw

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Which brings me round to Mr Vai...Fender had a push button strat...major failure. Push buttons have always been poorly recieved in the guitar world. That particular switch is quite large and is spst (ie very basic) mains power switch (250v). I did find a really neat, small illuminated computer power push button switch which has 4 poles but even that's probably a little large compared to these toggles and, as I say, push buttons have always been cursed on guitars.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I didn't mean that specific one, I just meant one that has a similar switch toggle. But I can see how that could have some problems. I was thinking of using that as the momentary switch.
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Cool, still going steady with that progress psw. Unfortunately, the electronics aspects of this is starting to go over my head, i'm not too bright when it comes to electronics unfortunately.

You talked a while back about seeking advice for acquring patents. How about going to seek advice for possibly stimulating interest from companies who might want to buy this idea off you. Whether you sell it or a major company sells it, I think the thing will be a huge hit. Especially if it is small, and cheaper than the current solutions. For a start, you would get interest from Steve Vai fans and Matt Bellamy fans (muse frontman who had a fernandes sustainer built into his guitar).

Go for it psw!!!!!

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Thanks Mr. Hazard your support is neverending...I could call it a hazard drive :D

I've been trying to post a block diagram of the circuit proposal but am having a bit of trouble getting it to be legible. I'll have a go now, if it's no good, I'll try and replace it later

circuitblock1gif.gif

psw

hmmm...kinda psychedelic man...whoooo

ok perhaps this one is better

Edited by psw
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That surely looks complicated :D The pic's a bit small though, would be better if it was a 'lil bigger. It's hard to read the yellow writings...

I actually liked the momentary switch idea, it would really be useful, however the diagram doesn't include it, does it?

By the way, when you finally come up with a name, i could design a logo for you, if it will be of any help...

...

emre

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Hi there emre...I love logo's

I just came back from a pretty long drive and I past some car dealer that had the word "INFINITI" on it, maybe the Infiniti drive, who knows :D Must be some kind of car I guess.

Anyway, got some speakers for my future amp project...16 little 5 1/2"'s at two dollars new at a clearance...their rated at 70 watts each so they should handle the 200 watts setup I'm thinking of.

The yellow writing are just the power supply lines - one is a divided +/0/- for the opamps, one is a straight 9 volt supply to the poweramp and the other is a reduced 2-3v supply for the LED's in the driver or where ever they end up.

The controls are on/off and harmonic switch and the gain control same as with present systems but you get all the interplay of the various pickup selections and a lot of internal adjustable stuff inside (4 trim pots) to customise it to taste and each guitar (not shown).

I like the momentary thing too, there must be some surface mount dpdt momentary type switch out there somewhere. That could simply be wired up to the on/off switch terminals so it would be activated only when the button is pushed. I keep forgetting some of the features that we've discussed so thanks for reminding me!

psw

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OK, it's a good idea to block things up like this before you try making anything complicated (or simple). That way your only dealing with one problem at a time and if a "block" needs improvement it can be replaced with a new version without having to redo the entire thing.

I don't usually do stuff like this, as I'm not the electronics guy. Generally I get something that does the job in a kit form if possible or make stuff op on stripboard. Sometimes I "point to point" to the actual chip or other components to make things real small. Then I muck about replacing or just hanging stuff off of these to get the kind of response that I want. Sometimes I'll simply twist the ends of a cap, resistor of diode to see what will happen.

This is really seat of the pants experimentation but I should add that on the side I'm spending quite a bit of time reading up :D and studying schemetrics so I can get a better grasp of what I can try...I'm not just sticking things just anywhere.

By the way, that's why us older guys get grumpy because they've done what I'm doing and putting in this effort and destroyed their share of components. If you want something that your pretty sure will work then get a kit or buy a product. A kit's good cause they usually explain the circuit and what's going on. You can add or change components based on this information if you want to to see what happens. If you want to go way out and try something really new...for example sustainers...everyones pretty much on their own and if it was easy there'd be Ebow projects all over the web. Check it out, there isn't, so it must be trickyer than it looks.

Anyway, enough of that.

The Power block consists of a the batteries 9v supply with a protection diode (this stops the circuitry being destroyed it the batteries put in the wrong way. Some capacitors to ensure that the power is smooth. There is a resistor to reduce the 9 volts to run the LED lights. Then there are a couple of resistors and a cap to divide the power to provide a positive negative supply with a virtual ground (is that how you describe it?). This is needed to allow the opamps to swing both positive and negative (if you think of a sine wave it goes up and down +/- around a line, this line is ground or zero). The dashed lines are simply power lines split supply to the opamps, reduced power to the LED's and filtered 9v for the power amp. There will probably be an interface for the switch so that everything goes to the circuit board and wires go to the controls from there.

So yes Bio, it is just a way of routing the power to the different blocks but they require different power arrangements. I should also mention that these blocks are a way of thinking about and developing a circuit. Eventually this stuff will be all over one board and seem to make no sense at all....just like all the other stuff you've seen. Another thing, when LK posts a little circuit idea as on the previous page, you need to realize that this isn't the whole thing. There is an assumption that you realize it's power requirements and have a sense for reducing noise and often, know how to set it up for the kind of sources (say pickups) and loads (say amp or driver, etc).

Complicated but easier when you break it up...hope this helps

psw

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Hi there, sustainer-ettes!...don't get me wrong but is project guitar some kind of boy's club...why don't girl's, women and wives whant to do this stuff.

Working slow but already making plans for miniturization. The jackplate hole in a strat by the way is exactly the right size for a 9 volt battery lying on it's edge. But there's no room for anything else.

As the requirements are getting more clear the circuit will need to be internally mounted. There needs to be a line from the pickups to the circuit and then on to the selector. I'm also thinking of taking the total output and putting it through a buffer then out to the amp. Thats a lot of signal cabling and a bit of re-routing for people to do. I'm not keen on people soldering to the circuitry so I may need to find some kind of suitable plug so as not to cause damage.

The initial buffer block may not be required and could be used for the purpose of buffering the output instead. Perhaps a on-off-on (if I can find one) could be used to allow this buffer to be used as a booster without the sustain function. It's a thought anyway.

I haven't found a suitable SMD momentary dpdt push button either, so keep your eyes peeled. I reckon this would be a great feature and not hard to do with the right switch.

I'm working up a design for the new illuminated driver. I've got some SMD red LED's that will fit within the magnet array. Thinking of an alloy rail, 6mm wide with a 1mm "window" line across the middle. The ends would be black epoxy and have holes to allow the device to be screwed to the instrument. Tape could be used but I think there will be a need for height adjustment and you wouldn't want it to come loose! A 4 core cable will come down the underside centre next to the pickup. That will require a 3-4mm hole to be drilled at the very least.

Now if I could make the circuit small enough perhaps I could set it in epoxy in a cylindrical shape. A hole could be drilled into the internal side of the control cavity and the circuit press-fitted into it.

I'm also thinking it may be best to do the circuit on two boards, one next to the pickup selector to take all the signal connections and then another to do the amplification. At least two very small boards may be easier to find homes for than one bigger one. Where the trimmers go and how the controls (which if separate will require 10 wires) will go is still up in the air.

On my currect guitar I want to keep the middle tone (mid pup blender) and my phase and selector switches. I may even want to add a DIY piezo system sometime in the future. Your Les Paul require long pots and switches so I don't know if that will be a problem...I'm guessing a master tone setup. Mounting the controls on the pickguard has a lot of appeal. But both the strat jack plate idea and this LP suggestion are brand specific and will be tricky to produce by one person.

So I'm still interested in othe suggestions or how it could reasonably be put into other guitars. Check yours out and give me an idea of how much space is in there...and don't forget the battery.

Anyway, almos 6000 visitors to the thread...I better get some recordings of this thing to prove it is working ok!

psw

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Yep we want recordings B)

I have a custom made guitar, with the body shape of an ibanez. Tomorrow i'll be doing some circuit rewiring on the guitar (i had installed a super switch a few months ago, and it seems i couldn't do the solderings right, as some switch positions has no sound anymore :D ), i'll take a look at how much space there is in the control cavity and let you know...

...

emre

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Unfortunately my guitar space will be no use to you since it is custom built and the routing cavity is in the back and bigger than most. What you need to do is look at all the variations of cavities that people have and work out if there is one common way of doing this.

How about checking out this part of the warmoth site:

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/bodies/bodies.cfm

Click on each of the bodies here and you get a front view and a back view. It also shows the typical cavity for that guitar. Maybe you can spot something that is common to all the cavities there are. I don't know how deep cavities go in guitars but maybe you could make the circuit small enough so that it can just go on the edge of the cavity (against the cavity wall) rather than horizontally in the cavity? Just an idea, I have my fuzz factory circuit sitting virtically rather than horizontally in my guitar. I'm just wondering if the same could be done with your circuit, depends how big it is I guess. The fuzz factory circuit is really small and simple, your circuits are most likely to be bigger and more complex.

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Thanks guys

I've got a few guitar's here. The one I'm working with is practically hollow under that guard but that's not the point is it. Most guitars are pretty tight.

I think you guys will be surprised at how small the circuit may end up being. The trim pots, switches and cabling will be far bigger than the circuit, not to mention the battery. I don't like the idea of puting the battery under the pick guard cause it would be such a pain to get it out! If you use it a lot, you'll be changing or recharging the battery pretty often I suspect.

This is because it is a high current device, not just a little preamp effect type thing...it takes a bit of power to move those strings. That's why I'm interested in having an onboard charger so you could plug the guitar in overnight to recharge without removing the battery. It would also be cool to have a low battery indicator...but I don't want to take up too much space.

I'm not sure if there is anyone familiar with digital control to advise me here, but I got a rotary encoder a while back. I think it was about $10 which for this project is a lot but... This is a fine piece of equipment....it's got a smooth clicky feel and turns endlessly and has a momentary switch activated when you pus on the top. It takes standard knobs (althoug it's not fluted). It's also thinner than even my little 9mm pot I'm using now! An encoder like this is often found in car radio vol controls these days, it looks like a pot but sends signal codes to electronics that decode them and activate circuitry in response.

It would be great if I could use this device to run gain and you tap it once to turn on, tap again to turn off, and perhaps twice quickly, to select harmonic modes. This would mean that this "pot" would be all that is required for control!

Anyway, got the soldering iron out this morning so some practical work is starting.

psw

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