the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 PART 1 i'll be using intervals basically cos i think it's one of the best ways to learn scales, for the beginners, the abbreviations i'm using mean: min2=minor 2nd, guess what maj2 means? (major 2nd) perf4=perfect 4th, dim5=diminished 5th, aug4=augmented 4th so let's learn some intervals we start with the root note (this is the key you are playing in) so if you're trying to work out the Cmaj scale, first you find a C note and call it the root note, we're aiming to get to the octave(same note 12 frets up) and to work out all the notes we want in between, then we'll have a scale! now let's take a look at the following table of intervals INTERVALS AKA root min2 maj2 dim3 min3 aug2 maj3 dim4 perf4 aug3 dim5 aug4 perf5 dim6 min6 aug5 maj6 dim7 min7 aug6 maj7 octave root only worry about the first column for now, once you've found a root note go one fret higher and you have your min2, keep going up a fret at a time and down the tables first column... so say our root is an open string, min2 becomes the 1st fret ,maj2=2nd fret,min3=3rd fret, maj3=4th fret, perf4=5th fret, dim5=6th fret, perf5=7th fret, min6=8th fret, maj6=9th fret, min7=10th fret, maj7=11th fret, and the octave is the 12th fret let's say our root is A(5th fret on the E string), then A# becomes our min2 and B our maj2, next fret is the min3, next fret is maj3 and so on... they are all 1 fret apart basically you can look at scales as being the root/octave and a selection of intervals between them to learn a new scale you will only need to know the intervals it consists of, as long as you know how to work out the intervals distance from the root(where to find say...a min6 or a perf5..etc) say you learn the minor scale and someone says "now play the harmonic minor scale" , you say "what? play it yourself dammit!" so they tell you that to play the harmonic minor scale simply take all the intervals from the minor scale but replace the min7 with a maj7, there, all of a sudden (as long as you know where your 7th intervals are located) you know the harmonic minor scale! and can expand it across the fretboard because you know every octave you find is also a root right? so from each root/octave you can go to the next interval, say it's a maj2, to a min3..etc and you'll start to learn scales all over the board! now let's learn a scale!! w00t!! first up, the Aeolian mode ....aka ...the minor scale! here's the intervals: maj2, min3, perf4, perf5, min6, min7 so if we expand this across the strings we get this shape: e---|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|--- b-T-|----------|----------|---PERF5--|--MIN6----|---...ETC-|--- g---|----------|---MAJ2---|---MIN3---|----------|--PERF4---|--- d-A-|---MIN6---|----maj6--|--MIN7----|---maj7---|--OCTAVE--|--- a---|---MIN3---|--maj3----|---PERF4--|--dim5----|--PERF5---|--- e-B-|----------|----------|---ROOT---|---min2---|---MAJ2---|--- we are playing the ones in capital letters and can expand by following on from the octave!(maj2, min3,perf4, perf5...etc) now meet the family: MODES Aeolian(minor) ------- maj2, min3, perf4, perf5, min6, min7 Mixolydian(jazz) ------- maj2, maj3, perf4, perf5, maj6, min7 Lydian(Steve Vai!!) ------- maj2, maj3, aug4, perf5, maj6, maj7 Phrygian ------- min2, min3, perf4, perf5, min6, min7 Dorian ------- maj2, min3, perf4, perf5, maj6, min7 Ionian(major) ------- maj2, maj3, perf4, perf5, maj6, maj7 Locrian ------- min2, min3, perf4, dim5, min6, min7 to play say, the lydian mode, you would simply find your root,maj2,maj3,aug4,perf5,maj6,maj7,octave and play with these! technical note: the interval actually refers to the space between the root and another note, they don't exist without the root because it is a measurement of distance in sound from the root, a relationship between two notes, there's no need to understand this right now though let's look at that second column from before, the 'also known as' column these are simply what the interval is also known as if my scale goes root, min2, min3, maj3, perf5, min6, min7 you can see i have two 3rds and no fourth so let's call the maj3 a dim4 instead, there! we can count to 7 again (yay!) augmentation is the sharpening of an interval diminution is the flattening of one an augmented chord is a chord which contains an augmented interval(yes, chords are made with intervals too, cool huh?) when i refer to an augmented interval though, imagine the min3/maj3 is the 3rds territory, when it exits it's territory to a higher note it becomes augmented, opposite for diminished, if it is raised a half step from a min3 it's not augmented because it's still in it's territory, it simply changed into a maj3 PART 2 relativity between scales: let's take your aeolian mode... if you play it in A, we get... root, maj2, min3, perf4, perf5, min6, min7 or A, B, C, D, E, F, G now take the locrian mode in B..................we get B, C, D, E, F, G, A now take the ionian mode in C.......................we get C, D, E, F, G, A, dorian in D........................................................................D, E, F, G, A, B, C i think you get the point.... (notice they all have the same notes) so they all overlap! it's because all 7 modes i stated before relate to eachother the relative dorian to A aeolian is....you guessed it...D! relative dorian to C Ionian= D! relative ionian to A aeolian= C! relative locrian to D dorian= B! relative minor to Gmajor=.....E! relative minor to G#major=...F! if we take the minor scale(or aeolian) we know starting from the maj2 is the relative locrian starting from the min3 is the relative ionian starting from perf4=relative dorian perf5=relative phrygian min6=relative lydian min7=relative mixolydian so if i'm playing D aeolian but don't know the shapes very well i can switch to E locrian or A# lydian and learn 2 scales at once if i know a few basic shapes or even just the theory of which interval i can hit next..etc also if i was playing in D aeolian over a D minor based riff and the riff changed to an A# lydian chord progression or something i can keep playing D aeolian cos it's the same notes but it will feel and sound different over the new lydian based riff a good technique would also be to accentuate the lydian nature of the scale (the root note which has now changed and the Augmented 4th because it's the only note that seperates lydian from ionian(major) and it's what gives lydian it's flavour.. PART 3 more on relativity: think of scales as familys family no.1 has 7 members(modes): ionian,locrian,aeolian,mixolydian,lydian,phrygian and dorian one for each note... if you were playing from the ionian mode in any key, the maj2 would be where the dorian starts, maj3 is where the phrygian starts and so on... if you were playing from the mixolydian mode in any key, the maj2 would be where aeolian starts, maj3 would be where locrian starts and so on.... so each member in family1 has 7 notes or 'doorways' to get to it's sister modes including itself family no.2 has the same principles only it's of a different genetic makup...for example one of it's members is the harmonic minor scale which contains a maj2, min3, perf4, perf5, min6, MAJ7(the major 7th is what seperates it from a normal minor scale) nowhere in family no1 can this shape be found. that's why it's in family2 it's first sister mode is found starting on the maj2, next one on the min3, next one on the perf4...etc so this family also contains 7 members family no.3 is the pentatonic family of only 5 members you can find the members from each note in this pattern: root, min3, perf4, perf5, min7, octave this is why scales are not as daunting as they seem, once you know one member of a family, you know every member of the family by starting from the different intervals, you're just yet to be introduced if you've ever heard the terms major scale's 3rd degree, or lydian's 3rd degree, or anything like that what it refers to is the mode found at the mentioned interval eg. ionian's 4th degree=the mode that is found starting from the perf4 in the ionian scale, which happens to be.... well the maj2 member is dorian, maj3 member is phrygian, perf4 member is LYDIAN! so the ionian's 4th degree is lydian!! there might be a part 4 one day but for now you can research for yourself peace PS: if someone can give me the names of the harmonic minor and pentatonic modes (family2 and 3) i'll edit them in here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 those are wierd mode names... i was tought with aeolian and hyper aeolian. dorian and hyperdorian. and changing modes doesnt make it a different scale,it just makes it a mode of the major scale, what we commonly call minor, blues etc. just so to not confuse... what i really want to know is the scale construction of a corinthian scale p.s. at least as i recal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 p.s.s. because people might think of a minor scale as a seperate scale as it is only a mode of a major scale p.s.s.s. i rephrased my first post, third eye.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 wow..i've never heard of hypermodes... yes, they are all minor or major derived.. but it doesn't impact much on learning them.... i could be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 btw i don't think blues scales are modal but pentatonic based Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 i will be seeing my guitar teacher soon, but it was from a course book on music theory, i read about modes, and there where dorian, and hyperdorain, but they might just be different names for some of the modes but as i recall there where 8 modes and then a hyper mode of each. i will check this on thursday (guitar class) on a lighter note, ahhh tiss the season to be theorizing so can you give me the formation of a corynthian scale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 wait nevermind i found some reference on exotic scales http://www.guitarnoise.com/scales_exotic.php darn they're not movable edit: and its byzantine not corynthian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 i don't see any corinthian or hypermodes? ***? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 look up sorry for my fractured posting, but it is 12:20 here and i had a wresteling camp/clinic today for 4 hours edit posting! hypermodes ill look into on thrusday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 byzantine: min2, maj3, perf4, perf5, min6, maj7 as i was working this out it in Cb it was perfectly in key with the song on the radio....scary.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 are you sure its movable, or did they just right them out that way? and yes it is quite creepy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 why wouldn't it be movable? i'd say they're just writing everything in C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 then whats up with kumoi and iwato? actually the byzantine scale is quite catchy, at least in a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 dunno but if none of those were movable you'd be stuck in c a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 yep well ill just wait on the second part and then comment, maybe busting out one of these exotic scales , but right now im off to bed, tommorow another 4 hours of wresteling awaits edit in reply to your ewarlier post, blues scales are pentatonic based, i beleive they add a minor 6th, but im not sure , but i confused them with jazz/myxolydian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 they sometimes add a major 7th and deminished 5th a minor 6th sounds too....minorish.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 The standard blues scale of today is a minor pentatonic (occasionally with the diminished fifth added) - the "blue notes" are actually from African music and fall between the tones of our major scale, specifically between the minor and major third, the diminished and perfect fifth, and the minor and major seventh. The tension between this vocal style and the diatonic harmonies of southern church music was the genesis of both blues and jazz, the only indigenous American music genres. Besides its obvious portability, one of the reasons for the guitar's popularity among early blues artists was the ability to bend strings and produce those non-scalar pitches they were hearing in their heads. <end of history lesson> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 part 2 added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Good info on the diatonic scales and ecclesiastical modes, third eye! You might find this useful: Scaleopia It lists a great number of the known scales with lencths between two and ten tones, illustrates the intervals, and includes fretboard diagrams. So next time you need that pesky Raga Nagasvaravali or Verdi's descending Enigmatic, you can just look 'em up! The site's very well done, and this guy's obviously spent a lot of time collecting exotic scales from all over - check it out when you get time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 cool!, cheers!! does it have corinthian though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 heres the only scale I know E-----------------------5-8 A------------------5-8----- D-------------5-7---------- G---------5-7-------------- B-----5-7------------------ E-5-8---------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third eye Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 not after you read the post at the start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Curtis, With those notes, you can play over the backing track for the PENTATONIC BLUES SKIRMISH (yes, it always has to be capitalized). It doesn't have the 'blue' notes, but it's a Pentatonic scale in Am. Cheers for the lesson, TTE!! I'll look into it more deeply when I have guitar in hand. Thanks, Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Greg Since you can record now, just do those notes and show me what it sounds like, and i will do the same, ok? To me, it sounds bad, but hey, it may sound better through a different player Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 also, i dont understand how to read the first post, its just to me all letters and stuff jumbled together Curtis - Yea, I am difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.