Dragyn Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Awesome work. Keep those pictures coming!!!!!!! Dragyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 After the top was glued and planed I sanded it smooth, raised the grain with a damp rag, and sanded it to 320. Then I practiced sunbursting on it, first with a rag, then using my little auto touchup gun. I decided that spraying is the way to go when I do the proper bursting. Once I was done experimenting, I routed the 1/4" radius on the back, and routed a 1/2" radius rebate all around the perimeter of the body, except for the cutaway, using my router table. Next I routed the binding channel using the table. I will be using tall binding in the cuttaway, with a binding channel which runs parallel to the back of the guitar, so I routed the cutaway area along with the rest - if you want to do an authentic vintage approach you'll need to leave this till later so you can route a 1/4" binding channel which follows to top carve in the cutaway. After struggling with this approach on the blue guitar in my avatar, I decided to go the easy route this time! I cut the channel using my bearing guided binding cutter - assembled on the cheap by swapping the bearings from a flush trim laminate bit, and a profile cutter to produce a 1.5mm channel. I also discovered that the bits I got with the router table use a slightly smaller bearing - 11 rather than 11.5, so I swapped one of these on for the final pass, which guaranteed a clean final result - essential if the binding is going to look good. Once the binding channel is cut, I setup my neck angle jig. This is a simple variation on my router thickness planer, which cuts the neck angle onto the end of the guitar body. By placing a thicker block under one end of my router rails, I introduce an angle. I determine my neck angle using the method described by Melvyn Hiscock, and use this drawing to establish exaclty where the blocks need to go, and how thick they need to be. The angle is cut with several shallow pases, checking constanly that the body centreline is at 90 degrees to the rails which set the angle - if it creeps the angle will be cut crooked, which will be fatal. Once it's finished, it looks like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 With the neck angle machined into the top, it's time to route the neck mortice and tenon. First, the tenon (hope this is helpful Jehle). The tenon dimension are marked out, and it's rough cut on the bandsaw. I stay a few mm clear of the angled area where the body and neck will touch. Once the tenon is roughed out, I attach my tenon tempalte - shown here with the mortice template. The neck goes over to the router table, where the tennon is trimmed to size using a template bit. Again, take care to stay away from the angled joint surface by the heel, you really don't want to touch this with the cutter or you'll tear the side out of your heel. (I found all the bits and glued it back to gether ) Once the tenon is routed out, I carefuly cut the angles at the heel using a razor-pullsaw. After cleanup with a sharp paring chisel this is the result: Coming soon - the mortice or neck pocket, whatever turns you on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Well, here goes with the mortice: First I hog out the bulk of the wood in the mortice using my 1" forstner bit. Then, I attach the template with doublsided tape - plenty here, the last thing you want is it slipping. Once the joint is hogged out, I clean up using a template bit. I take a lot of small passes, aiming to take bewteen 1/4" and one 1/8" each pass. The end result should be a nice crisp mortice. Once the mortice and tenon are both completed, I tidied up the joint using sandpaper pulled through the mating surfaces until it fits nice and tight. I also found my flush cutting saw very helpful to fit the joint, running it against the body to remove tiny quanitities from the neck. Once the joint fits to my satisfaction I use a tiny carving plane to bring the cutaway level with the side of the neck (I cut it slightly oversize when I shaped the body). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pex657 Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 you inspire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulNeeds Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Brilliant work Setch - and the photogrpahy is amazing and more helpful than any book I've read. Brian - this is surely worth stripping and adding to the main site tutorials - with Setch's permission, of course?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Great work Setch, can't wait to see how things turn out. After seeing the tearout you had with the router, I'm thinking of using my Robo-Sander even more.. lol Anyone who didn't already know you do good work will know now. Keep those great pics coming... Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Setch, Great stuff!! Very clever use of router. I am takin notes. Very cool of you to take the time to document your project so well. Its gonna be a beauty! Peace, Fryguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Thanks for all the nice words and thoughs folks, glad people are finding this useful. Once the neck joint is fitted to my satisfaction I continue shaping the top. There are two angled portions on a Les Paul top: The portion I have already angled, where the fretboard sits & the area that the pickups sit on - John Catto calls this the pickup plane. This area starts just after the end of the fretboard, and extends to between the bridge pickup and the bridge. Here it is marked out (I beefed up the lines in photoshop) I use a smoothing plane across the grain to establish the flat area which joins these two lines. Once I get close to the final depth I go with the grain, using a plane, flat sanding block and scraper to smooth the area until it looks a bit like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Setch, how long is the tenon?, How far past the end of the fretboard does it extend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 The pencil line in the last image represents the end of the fretboard. The tenon extends about 3/4 of the way into the neck pickup cavity (or will when it's routed). This long tenon is one of the features that distiguishes 50's and early 60's LP's from their modern counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grindell Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 This is kinda late in the process, but what size router bit did you use to cut the access for the truss rod? I saw you said you used a core bit, but what size? I was thinking of going with a 3/8". But, I was going to test first, of course. I'm getting ready to do a similar guitar, and I was going to do the top a little different, but your idea probably makes more sense than mine. Good work, though. Excellent job so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Pretty sure it was 1/2". I think 3/8" would probably be neater, but I don't have a 3/8" bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grindell Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I'll maybe try a test this weekend with a 3/8 and another with a 1/2, and I'll post the pics. Thanks for the quick reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beno Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 WOAW!!!! That guitar is looking really awesome!!! GRATZ!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullmuzzler Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I really love your work, man. Your last one (DC) was amazing (still is). Great stuff. mullmuzzler | OSSMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Setch, beautiful work. It's helpful to me to watch it come together, especially some of your techniques using a router and how you made the neck tenon / mortise. I am making an LP style guitar now but am behind where you are so this is helpful. A couple of questions. When you use your router jig for tapering the neck, do you extend your router base somehow? Otherwise, how does it ride flat on the aluminum guides as you move the router side to side? Did you chamber the body for tonal qualities or weight or both? I have a set of plans for a late 50's LP, and there are no chambers indicated. Thanks. Keep it up. Inspiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Looking good John! Is that top carved yet? Looks like it is, in which case you're only behind on the neck, and that looks to be coming along very nicely. Here's the latest update - sorry for the gap. I've been working on the guitar after work, and so I've had less time to take pics and post here, but I did get a few shots. Here's the top ready to be carved, arranged on the top are the tools I use. The spokeshaves establish the convex curves, and the little plane deals with the recurve area. It's a real monster - eats through the maple like nobodies business! Here's the guitar about halfway through - the treble side is almost completed, and the bass is almost untouched, except around the lower bout. First I roughed out the convex curves, using a jack plane to remove most of the material, and then evening out the curve with the spokeshave. Once this was even, I carved the concave recurve area with the little ibex clone. In this shot the left side has been shaped with the spokeshave, whilst the right hand side has also recieved attention from the carving plane. Then it's a question of using plane and spokeshave, along with scrapers, to flow the two curves together. I found the dyed top quite helpful as a record of which parts of the top had been carved, it helped to get things symetrical. Once I had the carve roughed out I bound the guitar with Stew Mac's cream binding. I really don't like this stuff - it's ABS, and is stiffer than the cellulose nitrate stuff. Also, it's formed not cut from sheets, and the bunch I got had one side *very* convex, so I had to machine it flat with my router thicknessing jig. I glued the binding with CA glue, taping it all round then wicking the glue in by capilliary action. Once it's glued I turn a good hook on my scraper and scrape it flush. Once the top is bound I spent a long time smothing the contours and refining the shape until I was happy with it. Once I'm satisfied I start sanding, so far just to 150. I use 3m gold from Stew Mac - it is head and shpulders better than *any* other paper I've used, and I wouldn't use anything else if it was easier to get. If anyone in the UK knows of a supplier other than Stew Mac I'd love to hear of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 www.lmii.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Thanks Sam - I guess I should have specified in the UK. I've ordered from LMII as well as Stew Mac, and both are excellent vendors, but the tax really stings, not to mention the fee Fedex charge for handling the tax... If I don't find somewhere soon I'll just have to bite the bullet and order from the US again. The 3M gold really is *that much* better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 With the carve mostly completed I return to the neck. The fretboard is to be bound with the last of the Stew Mac ABS binding (good ridance!). I cut three lengths, machine them to the correct thickness with the router, and then plane the fretboard down to the appropriate width. The binding is taped in place, then CA is wicked in bewteen the board and binding. Then the tape is removed and glue is wicked into the gaps where the tape was. Once binding is all firmly in place and the glue is dry the board is tidied up with a scraper. It is advisable to run the scraper at 45 degrees to the board, otherwise you'll leave dips in the binding by each fretslot. The board is now ready for the side dots to be fitted. The side dots are made of the plastic dot material sold in rods by Stew Mac. Positions are measured with a cheapo caliper to get the dots centred between the fretslots. I eyeball the height of the dot - this must be done after the binding is scraped down, other wise you'll get the dot off centre. This is also true when radiusing your own boards - dot's should be added after radiusing or you'll have no reference for the correct height. The holes for the dots are drilled a hair deeper than the binding, and short sections of rod are glued in with CA. I level the rod with my flushcut saw and 220 grit paper on a flat block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKGBass Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 <=envy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFC Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 where the binding meets at the end of the finger board do you a mitre cut? or just like a butt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 The fretboard binding is lap jointed. The short length on the end is the same width as the board, and the side pieces extend over it's ends. Thus far in my guitar building I've not had to do any mitres, and I'm not keen to start - they look like joints concieved by a malign god to punish his willfull children. Or something. The same could probably be said of doing inlays the way I did, so take the following with a pinch of salt. This took a looo-oong time, and left me tired and grumpy, but it looks decent. First I cut the inalys using a razor saw. I decided to keep all the sides straight rather than scalloped. This part was easy. The inlays are Agoya. Before cutting the inlays I had taped the fretboard at the appropriate frets. Now I glued the agoya to the tape with CA glue. Once they were dry and unable to shift about, I carefully cut around them using a sharp scalpel. Then I pulled them and the tape away, leaving a neatly marked cavity. It was after this that things got ugly. My attempts at using a dremel type tool in a homemade jig were spoiled by the poor chuck. The bit was drawn into the workpiece, and the chuck allowed it to creep deeper than I should have. Scratch that idea I ended up using my smallest 1 flute router bit in my trend T5 to hog out the cavities, then a scalpel and chisel to clean the edges. This was very slow, finicky work, and I don't recommend anyone else to use this technique.. it may make you cry However..... Looks good, but upclose there are a few spots which need filling, especially on the last three, smallest markers. All in all I'm happy for my first attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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