AprilEthereal777

I invested in an extremely long drill bit in the early days and would drill through the jack hole, through the cc wall and shoot for the bridge or stopbar post hole.......I would just clamp the body to the bench, often draw a "sight" line and then just shoot freehand but with much checking at the beginning to make sure I was on target......almost impossible to correct it if you start off target....luckily, I never missed the target but I used to sweat and stress and my heart would race doing the job.

These days I build guitars and basses with tops so I pre-rout channels in the body, then glue the top on, rout the pups and bingo.....there's the wiring channel.

Hey Peter,

Thanks mate, I rocked around to Oz Tradie's last night and we put the Toneflow through it's paces, (and felt the earthquake in his workshop along with most of Melbourne !!!!!....I don't think the 12 caused it ) Reckon the 12 came through with flying colours but I'll let Oz use his words in that regard.

Re other projects, yup! At the moment I have the following builds on the go:

1) 2 x Custom Les Paul 24 fret 24.75" scale builds, both will be painted black with the better one having a highly figured flamed Tas Oak top that I want to do some kind of black sunburst transparent effect on......couple of metal rockers

2) A strat inspired build with the same body shape as the Toneflow.....HSS pup config, 25.5" scale, hardtail bridge, denim blue finish on a flamed us maple top, african rosewood body, us walnut with a maple stripe neck......

3) A wicked twin horned bass beast with a brazilian walnut body, blackheart sassafrass top, madagascan rosewood fb, 34" scale, PJ pups combo, gold wilkinson bridge and tuners

Cheers for the interest Peter.

Alright then, what the hey! Introducing......

"Toneflow" by Ethereal Guitars

The name evolved out of a chambering design theory I came up with when working on the body. For more info on the "Toneflow" equation and some in progress build pics, have a look at 12 String Toneflow Project

Specs for this build as follows:

Body: Double Cutaway One Piece Brazilian Walnut with Toneflow chambering (32mm thick)

Top: Queensland Maple bookmatched (12mm thick)

Neck: 5 Piece Laminate of Tasmanian Blackwood, Mountain Ash and Reclaimed Tasmanian Myrtle centre. Neck has CF rods and an LMI truss rod.

Headstock: Bookmatched Queensland Maple "E" logo with serial no. on back, Angled 12 Degrees

Fretboard: Madagascan Rosewood, 24 frets, 25.5" Scale with Diamond MOP Inlays and Stew Mac Medium Fret Wire, Antique White Plastic Binding

Hardware: Gotoh Hardtail 12 String Bridge, Chrome Ferrules, Gotoh Light Weight Tuners, Handmade Bone Nut (stuff stinks!), Chrome Strap Buttons

Pickups: Matched Set of GFS "Vintage 59" Nickel Classic Alnico's. 8.5 - 8.8k on the bridge and 8 - 8.2k on the neck

Electronics: 3 Way Toggle for B, M and N options. 0.20 Tone cap. Tone pot is a push/pull enabling single coil option and Volume pot is a push/pull enabling reverse polarities. 0.01 Treble bleed cap for volume pot to maintain volume clarity and tone alll the way down

Finish: Buffed Acrylic Lacquer

Design Theory: Toneflow is a word I am using to describe the process of creating interconnecting sound chambers in the body which ultimately lead to the pickup cavities. In conjunction with a small (3mm) "air" pocket between the end of the fretboard and the neck pickup ring, string tone is able to enter the very depths of the guitar resulting in a more resonant, deep and complex tone influenced heavily by the chosen tonewoods. Can I scientifically prove it works? Of course not! But the guitar produces tones unlike anything I have ever heard before (over 20 years of playing and being a 'gear head' and about 15 electric guitar builds under the belt), the sustain is tight and rich to the very end, the brilliance of the notes is remarkable and the tone can only be described as CLASSIC.

The tonewoods chosen for this build have also contributed to the warm, creamy tones which are ably converted by the GFS pups......very impressed with these....the alnico magnets and vintage specs have provided a perfect way of presenting a lush 12 string sound which goes from bright/attack at the bridge to warm/soft at the neck. The electronics work well offering further tonal options but my favourite so far is toggle in the middle position which selects a blend of bridge and neck pups....this is so well balanced and simply adjusting the tone and volume provides enormous scope.

Weight wise, it ain't light! But it's no boat anchor either. My bathroom scales suggest it is a bit over 4kg. I have played it for I suppose 40 mins with a strap and found it well balanced and not overly tiring. It is heavier than I would want a 6 string to be though.

To all those that offered ideas and suggestions throughout the building of "Toneflow", I again thank you sincerely. And thanks to everyone else for looking.

Jon

Thanks for the comments Stu, greatly appreciated.

Yup we'll be catching up soon to put the Toneflow through it's paces. Haven't changed the covers yet folks, been onto other builds and playing the finished ones

To balance things a bit I never like the look of wood PU rings/covers. Looks absolutely wonderfull as it is!

Cheers

Willem

*edit* I see we both got our name from the same place!

Haha...friends of Blackwater Park unite!

Thanks for the comments Willem, the cream cc cover idea was to compliment the binding, but I am going off it a bit....hmmmm....any one else, black plastic, wood????

Nice to hear from you RG and thanks for the comment

Thank you again to all re the truss rod and control cavity comments.......popular vote has won the day and I will change them....truss rod cover is easy, I'll use a nice little piece of QLD Maple......I don't have any Walnut that I want to cut up small for a control cavity cover though???......I have a perfect peice of Mad Rosewood which would compliment the fret board but you can't see the fret board from the back so.....what about Tasmanian Myrtle which would match the centre strip in the neck......or my preference, shiny black plastic?

AE3 thanks a heap mate and to all Melbournians/Victorians stay safe tomorrow! We can't wait for this awful summer to end!!!!! Sick of living under the constant threat of bushfire/wildfire.

QLD Maple is a stunning timber and I was so lucky with this top. You never really know how good a book match is going to come up until it's done and this one is one of 3 "freaks" I pulled out of a 2.9m long, 40mm thick, 400mm wide slab........tonally, it has been proven to stack up very nicely with Maton and Cole Clark acoustics/electrics so I am a big fan!

A very good mate of mine, and fellow member of this forum, Oz Tradie, reckons this bookmatched top looks like a er, large ladies derriere with a g string , anyone see anthing else?

Thanks again to all who have shared their comments and feedback, I'm stoked!

......now, off to play it

Jon

Hey folks thanks a heap for the positive comments. To answer a few of the queries raised.......

Factory150, the strings are a D'Addario set of 10's to 46's with lot of odd ones in between!

Interesting to read your thoughts about the chambering topic Pete, thanks for contributing! And yes I agree, at the very least, weight reduction.

Cheers Andronico, glad you like it! My wife also was opposed to the control cavity cover being antique white........I like it as I think it compliments the binding and overall adds to a bit of a 'vintage' feel to it........I also didn't want to take the eye away from the Brazilian Walnut, but...........truss rod also was an easy fix for now........I agree with you though, time for a fiddly wooden truss rod to be churned out!

Thanks again everyone, I am very proud of this build (about my 13th or so) and will be genuinely saddened to see it go if it sells. I even feel a tad encouraged to have a crack at GOTM ......first time for everything, nothin' to lose etc etc

Jon

Hi Folks,

Well it has been some time but I have finally got this 12 String build finished! Specs as follows:

- Queensland Maple Bookmatched carve top (12mm)

- Brazillian Walnut One Piece Body (32mm)....chambered with custom "Toneflow" design (small gap between end of fret board and pup ring allows natural sound to enter the chambers

- Madagascan Rosewood fret board with 24 Frets and diamond MOP inlays, vintage cream binding

- Queensland Maple book matched headstock veneer, angled 12 degrees, volute

- Blackwood, Vic Ash and Tasmanian Myrtle set neck, CF Rods, LMI truss rod

- Gotoh light weight tuners and Gotoh 12 string bridge

- GFS Alnico Vintage '59 pickup set

- 3 way toggle with push/pull switches on volume and tone for single coil option and opposite coils in tap mode

Sound? RESONANT!!!!! This guitar has huge tone and sustains for days, I am absolutely delighted with it This is a great ACOUSTIC instrument. Just strumming away with no amp is just amazing. The electronics setup I am also really pleased with. The Alnico pups provide a warm vintage tone without going over the top with output. As expected, this build pumps out volume naturally so the low wound pups are a perfect match. The versatility of humbuckers has also proved to be a rewarding step.

I hope to record some sound samples soon and get these up on the web so you can check out the tone for yourself. Whether or not the "Toneflow" theory has added anything is an unknown unless I build another exact instrument without the toneflow setup.........it still seems logical to me though that this combination of design steps would help to bring the Braziliian Walnut tone from the body into the mix more so than traditional build methods.

Comments always welcome and cheers for the interest, Jon Ward.

Visit My Website

I voted for Kenny this month. It was the guitar I would most like to pick up and play. Well done to all entrants, it is never easy casting one vote!

Brazilian is definately very easy to work with, but i prefer the tone of other timbers myself. I dislike QLD Maple, but that may be because Ive always had bad experiences with the merchants.

To get a nice light blue, you need nice light coloured timber. I'll probably post up a thread for the blue guitar soon, but otherwise just go to my website and view it in the diary. You'll see the maple is VERY white. The get a blue over a non white surface, you'll need to tint the clear.

Thanks a heap for this insight Perry. That certainly opens up some options for me with available tonewoods. If you ever want the 'secret' on good QLD Maple supplies....PM me!

Off to http://www.ormsbyguitars.com/ for a look see.........

Hey Perry,

Great looking build....just for a change! Derek has obviously said, top of the range everything please, hence the Brazilian Mahogany body and neck etc....which is totally appropriate for a family/tribute build. As this (BM) is known as the holy grail of guitar timbers and from what I gather, you are one of the only people left in OZ that has any, how does it stack up against currently available alternatives? eg. Sapele, African Mahogany, Makore etc....I mention these as they are in plentiful supply over here on the east coast.

I have used OZ timbers such as Blackwood and QLD Maple almost exclusively and have little to no experience with such exotics. I am very interested in YOUR opinion in this regard.

I am now searching PG for info in this blue stain process.......do you reckon a QLD Maple top COULD be stained blue given the orangey/golden base colour of the timber?....or is this kind of finish best left for US Rock Maple such as the tops I bought from you last year?

Cheers

http://undergroundmusic.com.au/index.php?m...products_id=563

Perhaps one of these Dimarzio Humbuckers from Hell in the neck position.....this is the sort of thing I am after. Anyone heard of these before? I have never owned an axe with Dimarzio pups......

Thanks Geo and Foil1more!

Geo, that's exactly what I was after...someone with more knowledge than I about such things! So that's how an acoustic guitar works (top driving sound onto back and assuming out the soundhole)......I had never really thought about this and it just seemed an interesting topic......you are right, at the very least, I have reduced weight and that is important as Brazilian Walnut aint' light....and this body aint' small!...

....speaking of weight, the Grover Tuners I was going to use come in at a massive 280gms each according to Stew Mac x 12 would be over 3kg's of weight hanging off the headstock!....so found some Gotoh mini's locally that seem to be great quality and are only about 170gms....will save about 1.3kgs in weight. Was going to go Kluson style for real light weight but the machines take up too much space........I am using a Chrome Gotoh hardtail 12 string bridge so the chrome Gotoh tuners will compliment nicely.

Foilmore1 I'm very keen on the blue. I agree, it could really enhance the whole pond effect......Queensland Maple is very golden/yellow in it's base colour so I am worried the blue would end up green! Hard Rock Maple is very white and takes stains really well as there is no colour conflict going on. Will have to research this in a big way if I'm going to try blue. I also remember Perry or Drak saying at some point that blue is one of the hardest colours to pull off.....hmmm....reckon I should post the query in Finishing? Also......best humbuckers for this build....hmmmmmm

No build progress today unfortunately.....other business going ballistic!

Thanks again guys....Jon.

Thanks for the positive comments guys.

Nice choice of timbers. Definately got me thinking with your chambering design. Is there anything significant with how it has been chambered? If it's a trade secret, best keep it to yourself, but it did get me thinking.

Pete, I don't know whether anything significant has been achieved with my idea of joining the chambers and I'm not worried about sharing the ideas around. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that ANYONE is making any SIGNIFICANT dollars out of luthiery other than PRS, GIBSON, FENDER and the Chinese (oh OK Stew Mac shareholders must be pulling in a buck or 2) so I'm not too worried about trade secrets. I absolutely do this for fun and hope that someone may buy the odd guitar here and there and get as much enjoyment out of playing it as I have making it.

One of the main reasons I decided to post this thread was to hear from experienced builders such as Melvyn, Perry, Drak, Mattia, Daniel Sorbera etc and heaps of others to see whether they could see any logic in this......perhaps it is already done, perhaps it is a load of tone voodoo hogwash .......it just made logical sense at the time that it MAY allow soundwaves/tone to flow through the body, potentially resulting in a more resonant sound than just a standard solid body, or standard chambered hollow body electric guitar? I'd love to hear from anyone with any experience in chambering, tone theory.....Perry I believe has done a lot of experimenting and whilst I don't want his "trade secrets", a nugget or 2 woud be great

Anderekel, crop circles made me laugh big time...good one!

WAK Guitars....interesting that you liked the burn marks....sorry mate, they are gone! Update pics to follow (including initial neck carve but more to do and some light top sanding to 120 grit and a quick rub with 180....this top spins me out!) and again, anyone with suggestions for stain colour if at all, pickups, wiring mods and tricks etc...that would be awesome! Thanks again everyone for their interest

I like pointy guitars Great job. The upper register end of the FB adds a nice 'evil' bent.....right up my alley. Keen to watch this one unfold......

Tonal Qualities of Timbers Chosen. I am trying to achieve a warm, full and resonant tone......trying to avoid that fender twang. In hindsight, I should have perhaps run with a 24.75" scale, however, the 25.5" will hopefully provide those 'bell' like tones Fender are famous for. I have had no experience with Brazilian Walnut before but have found it be one of the most pleasing timbers to work with....routs beautfully, smells AWESOME, router bits don't burn it etc. it is also quite dense.....router shavings are fluffy as!.........did I mention it smells nice

I have read that Brazilian Walnut should provide a warm tone and as it is 35mm and the top is 10mm, should be the dominant factor in that dept. QLD Maple to me is MID focused, tending towards bright, so that should balance things nicely. Rosewood of most varieties is fairly warm so should be ok there..........neck timbers should provide a complete balance of the tonal spectrum.

Any thoughts on the timber combinations? Also, what humbuckers do you recommend for a vintage, natural tone emphasing the warm side of things? As stated before, I'm leaning towards Alnico low output pups......GFS are ok, have used some of their other pups before but not the 59's.........

Also, any thoughts on electronic tricks that I could employ to achieve a wider variety of tonal options? I'm thinking 5 way rotary with volume and tone but as you can see, I have plenty of room in that Gibson sized control cavity to fit a few more bells and whistles in. Any thoughts?

Thanks people. That's all for now. I hope to have the frets installed and the neck carved and test fitted before my next update........

Unfortunately I don't have any earlier shots of the neck billet or FB blank etc.....the FB blank came from LMI and the neck timbers from various suppliers in Melbourne. I really like building guitars with only say, 3 timber varieties but on this one I really wanted to use a wide variety and showcase some really awesome timber.........I am a bit concerned though about the contrast between the neck colors and the body.........this is one of my favourite parts of any build......you never know exactly what you are going to get figure and grain wise with the neck until you cut down to depth and start carving!

And yes, I have oficially fallen in love with Madagascan Rosewood.....2 black lines run parallel with the FB all the way down....wicked! The cream binding was chosen to add a vintage look......any suggestions for pup rings?.......tone and vol knobs?........the bridge is chrome, the pups I am thinking of using have chrome covers......don't want too much chrome though....ideas???

Ok, this work was completed today...........neck pocket routed, pup cavities done, CC cavity cover done, roundover carve done (simple I know but I don't want to detract from this top and I have carved most of my recent builds).....burn marks will sand out easily.........

Ok, top glued to body and routed flush. Bridge holes drilled (yes the middle one is supposed to be just outside the centre line ).........

Here is the book matched and glued QLD Maple top. It is 10 mm thick..........ready to make some dust! This came out of 4m slab 38mm thick I picked up at a woodworking show in Melbourne a year ago for $180!!

Here is the Brazilian Walnut one piece body, 35mm thick. I have obviously routed the body shape and the chambers........I needed to reduce some weight and also wanted to achieve some of the tonal qualities I have heard chambering can create. There was no real plan here other than to work in a balanced fashion so the weight would be evenly distributed, and strength would be maintained.

Whilst I was routing away, I had this crazy idea of joining the chambers........my thinking was that by ensuring the pickup cavities were open to the chambers, that some of the sound may enter or be influenced by this network of air pockets......probably all TONE VOODOO in my head, but what the hey! This build has been named "Toneflow" on this basis. Any comments on this would be gratefully received, good or bad, it's just an experiment.........

I have always loved the sound of a 12 string guitar, probably influenced by the famous intro to Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here". So, a while ago I decided to build a 12 String Electric, Chambered Solid Body. I posted a question a while back re Pickups for a 12 String electric and received some excellent feedback and suggestions so I have decided to do my best at documenting the build with the photos I have and where I am at today......

I have also found it tough to find much info on 12 string electrics and thought this may be a good starting point for others keen to embark on such a project.

SPECS:

- Brazilian Walnut One Piece Chambered Body (custom shape inspired by PRS and the Gibson SG)

- Highly Figured Queensland Maple (OZ) Bookmatched top (I bought a big slab of this stuff last year and this is one of the billets that came out of it)

- 5 Piece Set Neck - Tasmanian Myrtle Centre, Vic Ash lines and Tasmanian Blackwood Outers. CF Rods for extra strength and an LMI 2 way truss rod. Book matched QLD Maple headstock veneer

- Madagascan Rosewood Fretboard with MOP Diamond Inlays

- 25.5" scale length, 24 frets, Gotoh Hardtail 12 String Bridge

- Decided on twin humbuckers, volume, tone and a 5 way rotary switch....... (I have a set of GFS 59 Alnico's, low output buckers....any other suggestions would be great)

- Plan on using 2 sets of Grover locking tuners although mindful of the weight of these things...........suggestions of light weight, quality tuners?

Pics with comments to follow in next post.........................

Thanks everyone for the replies. "It is just an unchangable geometric issue"......this gives me great comfort and confirms I'm not going mad! All of the suggestions people have made are very helpful and I appreciate it....thanks again.

Thanks Jammy.....just saw a post from a few days ago where this topic was also touched on....please contribute though if there are other thoughts ideas such as tips on how to achieve say a 12" to 16" radius on a tapered FB........I have actually started doing this manually.....constant checking with a straight edge and radius guages and only a LITTLE bit of sanding then check again.....no rocket science in this method.....any other tips anyone?

Also, if I radius then taper........how do I get bindings on such a thin (4mm approx) surface.....hard enough with 6mm thin strips to do it......accurately!

Also, to radius before tapering would totally change my build process as I glue the tapered, slotted, bound fretboard to the neck, then use it as a template to rout the neck flush to on a flat surface...can't do that if the taper isn't done etc....back to templates for necks etc which I'd like to avoid.

For those wondering, YES I did research this topic on PG 8/11/08 (that's 8th November for US folk)........and could not find this exact issue, although it may be buried in an unrelated topic........

New thread title and a sticky perhaps mods?

Hi Folks,

I am hoping some of the more experienced luthiers out there can help me in understanding a conundrum!

I like to radius my own FB blanks as it allows me to use a much wider variety of timbers, scales etc.....I do however have a problem with my technique and I just don't understand how to fix it.

OK, picture a FB blank, that has been slotted, bound, inlayed and TAPERED....43mm width at nut and say 54mm at the 12th with 6mm even depth across the FB, no twists, dead perfect flat, square etc..... Seeking a 12" radius......using a Stew Mac 12" radius block (I have a 2 foot long one also).......the 43mm thin end begins to take the radius first as the edges drop away and you start to get towards the centre being sanded......however, despite how EVEN and CONSISTENT one does this......due to the wider end being wider.....the wide end still has MILES to go......it starts to drop at the edges but still flat across centre of the fb with heaps more to take off........now if I kept going to get the correct 12" radius at the wide end, I would be left with a much THINNER FB at the wide end (as in 4mm at the centre or so and 6mm at the narrow end which leaves little room for side dots at the wide end) in as it would require much more sanding to take away the excess..........I have done this on all my builds so far and managed to get away with it by leaving the last 6 or so frets a bit flat in the middle, but I thought, I must be missing something here and want to get this issue sorted out.......I want it 6mm thick end to end, centre to centre.....then if I CHOOSE fall away. that's up to me, not forced because of this problem.

I know a little bit of run off (fall away) at the wide end can be ok for low action etc, but this just doesn't seem right to me. I am not sure that I have explained this very well but I hope someone out there reads this and goes AHA (lightbulb)....I know what this aussie is on about

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading my post.