Muzz

I cut down the piece that makes the back of the headstock/half the front of the headstock and got it ready to route about 4 mm off the face

and shaved it down

The ruler said it was just over 16 mm thick now,

pretty close, there's some room for sanding.

On 3/26/2021 at 3:49 PM, Prostheta said:

 

Oof! Maybe not painter's tape. Something thinner like veneering tape, maybe. That stuff is meant to disappear under a joint. I've always ripped back a tape mask and never had issues with glue contaminating the rod to the point of dysfunction. Only if you use an entire bottle, perhaps! That test is pretty much all you can do short of destructive testing to find the failure point. I love LMII/Allied Lutherie's rods though. Those are about as close to engineered as is reasonable. Torquing a welded adjuster triggers something in me. If it were a single-acting rod with a threaded nut bearing against the block, that would be a better design I think. Much more durable.

Like you do, I will be ripping the tape off the channel before putting the fretboard on, you are right you would need a ridiculous amount of glue to flood into the channel to gum up the rod, which couldn't happen as the top bar of the rod fits tight against the sides of the channel. Those Allied Lutherie rods look nice, I got mine from Australian Luthier Supplies. I think Gibson Marauders have a traditional rod , but I have never tried fitting one of those. And I will not be buying a 1970's Marauder truss rod cover those things cost over $100. 

To get me hyped, I am listening to Deryck Whibley playing some Metallica on his Marauder 

On 3/26/2021 at 6:37 PM, Bizman62 said:

Crimson Guitars is one of those. They cut the tape narrower so that it's only about 1 mm or even less past the channel edge. Judging by the looks and the explanation it's regular masking tape they're using.

Yep after getting the neck plane dead flat no need to put a 0.2 mm ridge down the middle of it or protect that rod from the glue cascading down the side of the channel and jumping into the threads  

On 3/24/2021 at 1:43 AM, Prostheta said:

Negative nancy here; those rods can be a bit dicey at times. The welds usually. It looks like a lot of the join between the adjuster and the adjusting rod disappeared into the pool. Not sure how best to test that before it gets committed to the neck, but worth a once over regardless.

The way I test rods is to put the end in a clamp and wind the rod with an Allen key, in 2 way rods test clockwise and anti-clockwise. That rod is all OK it's going to live to be a hundred years old and get a letter from the Queen on it's hundredth birthday   

On the topic of truss rod installation it's amazing what you see on the internet how to pages, one site I saw recommends putting tape over the channel when applying glue for the fretboard, so far so good, but the site recommends leaving the tape there and put the fretboard on!

The other great story I have heard (I do not know if it is true) is that Brian May played his Red Special guitar that "he" and his dad made for a few years before he realized that the truss rod had not been engaged. Definitely not recommended on slim necks.

3 hours ago, JayT said:

I'm basically going to copy his entire process - just putting that out there with no shame

That's great, hope it all goes well, I learnt how to make necks largely from this forum, it's terrific to share techniques  

I can picture Nikki Sixx playing the red one

The design looks great, I'm looking forward to seeing this progress

20 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

That scarfing jig is fantastic

Cheers, it's always good to try new ways of doing things  

On 3/21/2021 at 6:24 PM, Prostheta said:

Scarf joints are very valid constructional techniques and have been for millennia. The main advantage is massive reductions in short grain which is the absolute primary negative of angled headstocks in the first place. Why the anti-Norlin corksniffers hated on Gibson's '70s volutes and (I think?) scarfing is beyond me. They are excellent with zero disadvantages beyond cosmetics, and that bit is debatable as well!

Very true, I think that people who don't like scarfed necks just do not understand that the scarf joint performs such an an advantage in strengthening the headstock to neck transition zone.

This slimline 6.2 mm wide truss rod arrived yesterday, I have used one of these before, they allow the thinnest possible channel from the neck through to the base of the headstock, therefore causing the least weakening of the headstock base possible. 

That is a beer hammer

A must have for the man cave  

22 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

That's a clever way to glue the scarf joint!

Cheers, it worked well, scarf joints seem to be one of those things where there are lots of different ways to do it. It's funny, I still run into people that think a scarf joint in a guitar neck is a bad thing. Still, companies that don't do scarf joints in necks with angled headstocks keep guitar repairers in business so bless them!

20 hours ago, Prostheta said:

In all seriousness though, it's a valid solution but a few tweaks can rattle out possible issues. Reduced clamping pressure needs a good consistent thin film of glue on both surfaces. Pfohl glue rollers are pretty neat, but they waste too much glue on a single component layup! A notched spreader or a hair comb does the trick. If slip is a PITA, lay out your parts dry and shim up the neck part by say 0,5mm or similar. Drill through the areas either side and fit a couple of wood dowels for locating. In the layout shown, downwards pressure on the neck section increases overall pressure in the gluing area, with the dowels stopping the material from slipping out of location. One big clamp in a stable layup with cauls to distribute pressure is all that this really needs. It works.

If using dowels, bear in mind the shear force involved as it could easily split out wood from the dowel locations closer to the thin edges. I have literally never done this. 

Great idea to use dowels on the outside that will get cut away later. In a headstock located scarf joint that was going to get covered in veneer or laminate, the dowels could be put  in the area to remain, to become part of the joint. The other thing I have wondered about is uing nuts and bolts in the outside area that will get cut away and using them not only as aligners but clamps, has anyone done this?

Glue clamp caul experiment work well, I took itout of the clamps this morning

No stick to the greaseproof paper covered caul

Nice joint

I often think that it is good to take a pause at stages in a build and decide what are things that should be fixed and what are natural tiny imperfections that are what makes a hand made instrument so special. 

https://www.notreble.com/buzz/2021/03/01/bass-of-the-week-ajrguitar-mods-swift-triple/ what an innovative and gorgeous instrument, your customer will be the envy of everyone who sees it.

Today it is absolutely pouring down with rain in Sydney, good day for mucking around on my project. I used some scrap radiata pine and tried a new way for me to glue a scarf joint using a glue clamping caul. I first wrapped my caul in greasproof paper and put some more paper on the bench.

Then put some glue on the long neck piece.

Rubbed the glue over the joint plane and clamped it to the caul.

Then put some glue on the short piece joint plane and shoved it in the wedge,

Easy, everything is squared up, no trying to align and hold two slippery fish together, I probably didn't need any clamps, but I could hear the clamp police's sirens at this point so I put a lot of pressure on the joint, probably a total waste of time for a joint with dead flate planes but the sirens faded into the distance.

I'll unclamp it tomoz and see if my experiment worked., Have a rockin' weekend \m/

Glad I tuned in for this thread, beautiful work

Oh yeah, but wait there's more in the 'best' of Gibson's experiments, check out the Spirit II XL, Alpha Q-3000, US-1 and M-III and best of all, the Sonex, made from a central chunk of wood and wrapped in sawdust and resin. The Gibson company history is fascinating, if you can get your hands on a copy of the book, Totally Guitar: The Definitive Guide by Tony Bacon and Dave Hunter it is well worth the read

Found these in the spare parts box,

Yep, I have seen a few pictures of tune o matic guitars with no neck angle and raised up necks, it looks very strange. Some early 70's guitars were built that way I think. This guitar has a neck angle, and I have/am definitely going my own way with this, I am not trying to make a perfect copy here, I wan't to inject some of my own features into the mix. Here is the 13 year old body, this was the first guitar I made, with no templates!

and here is the practise on scrap neck from the Destroyer I made a few years back, it wil get used here a bit

It's beer o'clock

Looking beautiful and classy

I don't think it can correct lens distortion, in this case it's OK as I am going to draw out the head stock and the rest of the neck on paper. I am not going for a clone, just something that captures the essence of that model. Jim Martin's Vs were cool http://www.faithnomorefollowers.com/2016/07/happy-birthday-jim-martin.html

On 3/11/2021 at 8:06 PM, Bizman62 said:

At this point I had to google for a Marauder to figure out what it's like. An LP Jr with a Flying V neck?

If you're going to modify the headstock, have you thought of a straighter string pull?

Yes, the Marauder is a real mixture of styles and features, I really like the way they look. I'm going to start drawing up my plan for it on the weekend, I won't be able to modify the Gibson  chubby arrowhead headstock shape much because that shape has, ironically on a 57 varieties guitar, become so synonymous with the species for me, It's funny how we get used to certain combinations of features on guitars. although I love to see builders mix things up now and again  

On 3/11/2021 at 8:31 PM, Prostheta said:

It's generally better to scale off larger sizes such as tuner hole spacing or at worst the neck width. Measuring off the tuner hole width is incredibly prone to error. If you knew the headstock angle accurately, you could even infer a size froGibson m the spot faced truss rod access footprint. Having a photo of the back of the headstock with tuners installed and the actual tuner body dimensions could help build a value of tuner hole spacing. Those laminates might even be 25mm or 1", however that's difficult to get any reliance from unless you know it as a fact. Also, hole spacing for the truss rod cover.

Glad I chatted with you, I calibrated the image analysis program ImageJ using the distance between the truss rod cover screw holes (52 mm) versus the tuner holes and you are right, the truss rod holes give a more accurate calibration. If anyone wants the software you can get it here https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download.html

22 hours ago, 10pizza said:

i've had a few marauders on my workbench for repairs/setup. Nice guitars, not a model you see a lot. (which I like  )

good luck with the build!

 

Cheers for that, and yes I agree, the Marauder is a nice guitar, and very rare, that may be because Paul Stanley did his best to commit genocide on the species   this web page shows him smashing his way through who knows how many dollars worth of Marauders http://axeology.com/P76Marauder.html

Love the experimental stuff, I am betting this guitar turns out fantastic  

On 3/10/2021 at 2:08 AM, Prostheta said:

Very cool. Run by the numbers.

and the next challenge for me  where the numbers are going to be important is making a head stock that is not a modified Ibanez HS design. I downloaded these two images and I'll use the tuner holes which I hope are 10 mm diameter, to get a sense of scale  

16 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Trigonometry and general geometric mathematics are a key skill in so many areas of instrument making. It really does create a more solid base to work from, especially when dealing with precise work like this. Like I said, automatic applause bud.

Cheers mate, that is so right, a little bit of mathematics can really help in guitar making, and it is really cool seeing how things can be worked out before making sawdust.

I sanded the join surface on the other piece of rock maple tonight, 

Sanded it until there was no more sawdust, while listening to this awesome band

There is way too much wood in the headstock region, but just like beer at a party it is better to have too much than too little

22 hours ago, Prostheta said:

 

Automatic round of applause for this jig. Did you wangle this one into reality from the depths of your own mind or was it inspired? This could form the basis of an adjustable permanent jig given a few tweaks.

I saw a post on this forum of someone cutting for a scarf joint using a hand saw completely freehand and that was inspirational, but I knew that I did not have that kind of skill. So I designed the jig, yes, from scratch, here are my plans, my mistake placing of one of the dowels is crossed out and repositioned to where it should be. Who knew that trigonometry would come in handy some day.

I have started sanding the joint faces using this home made sled

One done

13 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I take it that this is not the finished item? 

 No I am 'finishing' a guitar I made about 13 years ago, I made a Marauder style body and put a premade neck on it. Now I'd like a a blonde neck on it with a flying V style head stock, and this is my lump of clay..

13 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

For a diddley bow it still lacks something...

 

I had to look up what a diddley bow was, this guy plays one well 

12 hours ago, ScottR said:

That's one hell of a good start!

SR

You know Scott, I think the same way, if you find a nice piece of timber it inspires you to try and make something musical and/or beautiful out of it. Here it is in the scarf jig.

Half way through

First cut finished

Nice piece of rock maple that has been sitting in my basement for a few years.

12 hours ago, n8caster said:

Thanks! Setting the neck is probably one of the two steps I'm most worried about. That and sawing the fret slots. I've got the correctly sized fret saw from stewmac, but their fret sawing jig was a little beyond my budget for build #1. I'm going to have to figure out how to make my own jig. 

Something like this works a treat and won't break the bank

9 hours ago, ScottR said:

I meant to mention...that I love the F-hole.

That sounds so dirty...

Which in a guitar is actually a good thing.

It's good to hear from @Muzz. He once had the distinction of authoring the longest running thread, POINTY STICK, I do think @Norris has probably usurped that honor by now though.

SR

Always great to chat with you Scott and nice to see someone mosey along the build pathway enjoying the journey