benno Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 (edited) Ok so im back, schools over forever and now i have a huge break before uni. some of u may remember me needing help on the little gem for my project guitar which ended up turning out fine. Now im moving on to make some overdrive, a copy of the tubescreamer. I have found schematics at GGG and runoffgroove. Both of these seem very different with the GGG version alot more complicated. Im guessing the GGG version in a more closer 'copy' of the TS-808 where as the ROG version just trys to emulate the tube screamer sound.. but i am really not sure. I would rather go for something simple.. From those who have any idea please let me know your thoughts on my project tube screamer.. GGG- www.generalguitargadgets.com runoffgroove.com.au EDIT: i am playing through a MG30 Marshal amp at the moment, which is solid state so if tube screamer only works well in tube amps maybe suggestions for other simple ODs for me to build. Ben Edited November 10, 2004 by benno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hey, Ben, take a look at RG's article on the TS: The Technology of the Tube Screamer That'll get you up to speed on the variations of the TS - The GGG board will build several variations, including the Fooltone derivative, so that's probably the layout to use. The Runoff Groove Tube Reamer is a simplified, unbuffered version that's a lot easier to throw together and sounds a little bit more aggressive and unrefined, at least to my ear (that's not a slam - I actually prefer it). Either one makes a pretty nice build, so you should probably give the sound clips a listen to decide which you prefer. Paul Marossy built a TS (808, as I remember, from the GGG layout), maybe he can chime in here with some more specific advice. I breadboarded a Tube Reamer, liked it a lot, but never got around to boxing it up (I got totally distracted with all those JFET amp sims ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 As lovercraft says, I have built the GGG TS808 Tube Screamer. I like it quite a lot. Don't have any specific advice for you though. So, you have a solid state amp, huh? Here is some suggestions of things you could look into: PNP Neg Ground "Boutique Fuzz" (GGG) BSIAB I or BSIAB II (I am partial to the original version, I have a PCB layout for it at my site...) Blue Magic (GGG) Shaka Tube- I love this one! http://www.diyguitarist.com/DIYStompboxes/ST1590BB.htm AMZ Mini-Booster 3-Legged Dog (ROG) I'm not totally sure how these would sound with a SS amp, but my thinking is that if you set you amp so that it's loud and clean (if that's possible), then it probably won't sound too bad with a stompbox for the distortion. I think you probably want to avoid overdriving your amps' preamp as much as possible so you don't get a mushy tone due to preamp distortion added in there, too. This would be my approach. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Librero Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Paul, I was looking into the Blue Magic OD pedal. The guy running GGG seems to be high on that pedal, and you remarked in your website how you liked it too. But how does it compare to the TS-808? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Oh, the Blue Magic is a great sounding circuit. I think it is similar to the TS, but it has its own flavor. I haven't done a side by side comparison, but I think I like them about the same at this point. That mid boost switch on the Blue Magic doesn't seem to do that much, but you can definitely see an affect on the signal when you are looking at it on a scope. I think it depends a lot on your rig and how you EQ it. I typically don't use a lot of mids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) Thanks for the advice ill look into it a little more, and also listen to a few of those other pedal samples if i can. Maybe I will go with the simplified one, cheaper and less things can go wrong . That Shaka tube looks interesting and i have seen a couple other pedals that actually use tubes.. um Tube Driver on GGG, but it all seems abit hard core for me at the moment although i do have a tube, not sure wat sort or if it is of any use. ansil sentit to me along with tsome other stuff as a bonus when i ordered a few parts off him. Might save it for later. Ben Edited November 11, 2004 by benno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) Ive decidided to go with the GGG tube screamer clone and order the ready to solder ciruit board from them. I have already come across some issues. I decided to order all my parts out of the Australian Jaycar catalogue, but it is missing a couple parts: IC - JRC4558D 51pF Capacitor (maybe meant to be 56uF?) 0.02uF Capacitor (but i assumed maybe it was meant to be 0.22??) 1uF 50 volt non polar capacitor (no idea- i saw 100volt non polarised and 50-volt bi-polar capacitors though) ANd thats it. I am pretty sure jaycar has their whole catalogue up on the internet www.jaycar.com.au . I would really like to order all my parts from one place so i was wondering if someone could have a look to see if i have overlooked these parts or alternatives or something from Jaycar. Thanks, Ben oh PS the Bill of materials is: http://generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?...d=90&Itemid=118 EDIT: I see on that website u gave me lovecraft people use lots of other OP amps from the JRC and it also tells is the name change as well (I looked that up and didnt find it either ), so should i just order one of the others that they have listed there? I have in my catalogue LM833N. I really dont have much of an idea. ok the 3rd and last edit to my post, i found the IC i need for tubescreamer at Small Bear.... mm American. (thinks about $5 postale for 40 cent IC) Thanks again Edited November 11, 2004 by benno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Librero Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 if you order from small bear, you might as well buy the rest of the stuff you need and then some. who knows if you get the urge to build another pedal with some hard to find component again. i'll probably be making some orders of my own later, and i'm no closer to America than you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) IC - JRC4558D 51pF Capacitor (maybe meant to be 56uF?) 0.02uF Capacitor (but i assumed maybe it was meant to be 0.22??) 1uF 50 volt non polar capacitor (no idea- i saw 100volt non polarised and 50-volt bi-polar capacitors though) In case you haven't figured this out yet, 51pF is not anywhere close to 56uF! If all you can get is a 56pF cap, that would be close enough. The 0.02uF cap is correct. If you can't find one, use a 0.022uF or (2) 0.01uF caps in parallel. A 100V 1uF cap would be fine. A bi-polar would would probably also work OK, but YMMV. EDIT: On the JRC4558D, you can also use a TL072, NE5532, NTE928M, KA358 or an OP275. You could even use an LM1458, but it may be a little noisier. About the Chandler Tube Driver at GGG, a lot of people have problems with noise with that circuit. I would build the Shaka Tube instead, it's not that different than the Tube Driver, a little simpler to build in fact. Everything you need to build one is at my site... Edited November 11, 2004 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 A word of advice (or several), socket the opamp. Buy several different kinds. I'm particular to the Burr Brown opamps, but the TI 4558 is nice, and the 4559 isn't too shabby either. I think the TI 4558 is a little sweeter sounding that the JRC 4558 (also known as the NJM 4558). You will here differences, some subtle, some not so subtle. Another word of advice, seek out the mods. I've done the more/less distortion, tweaked capacitors, upgraded capacitors, etc. etc. It's fun, and the pedal ends up being much more useful. (go to diystompboxes.com and check out the forum, look for a link to Frank Clark's site, and also check out Keeley's site). One last word of advice, you can buy TS5's on ebay for $20 to $30. They are excellent candidates for mods, and are the basic TS9 circuit, albeit with a much crappier box. Once you build an effect, you will probably become quite addicted to it. I know I am. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Yeah, that's a good point. I always use sockets for opamps and transistors. And, it is kinda addictive building stompboxes! "Hello. My name is Paul. I am a stompboxaholic..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Paul, you could have just said, "Hello, my name is Paul. Look at my website." I think we could have inferred the rest. I forgot to mention playing around with the clipping diodes too. Tweak these out to tailor the distortion to your ears. An odd number of diodes will give you assymetrical clipping (sweeter sounding). Start with two, and go from there. I first tried two different kinds, then three of the same kind, and finally, five of the same kind for a very transparent and sweet overdrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 javacody- Good point. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted November 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 In case you haven't figured this out yet, 51pF is not anywhere close to 56uF! If all you can get is a 56pF cap, that would be close enough. The 0.02uF cap is correct. If you can't find one, use a 0.022uF or (2) 0.01uF caps in parallel. A 100V 1uF cap would be fine. A bi-polar would would probably also work OK, but YMMV. Yer i noticed, i mean them both to be pF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Cool. Just didn't want you to have problems with it working... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted November 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 (edited) I had a look on aussie ebay only TS9s and TS808s for $100+ and i worked out i can get all the parts from small bear for AU$43 plus another AU$20 for the circuit board from GGG (no other option??? i mean its cheaper than buying all that etching stuff and id probly screw it up any how). And i can work out some sort of enclosure in dads workshop... looks over at the scrap metal heap and the welder. SO that works out to be bout $63... not extremely cheap becasue i have no guarentee it will work.. lol. oh and i have to buy a new soldering iron cause i had to give the schools back. Anyhow i think ill go for it. Edited November 14, 2004 by benno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Good luck. You will have fun! Let me know if you have any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted November 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 OK, an after thought, before i order my ready to solder circuit board. It would be a little difficult, but would save me $20 if i used perf board. Do many people use perf board for circuits this complex or for just simple projects? Just a thought, and i guess it would mean i would have to learn to layout a schematic onto the perfboard. Has anyone got an appropiate layout for tubescreamer (from GGG) on perfboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Sure, people have built that on perf before. I do a PCB whenever I can, it's just less hassle for me. I'll build some of the simpler circuits on perf, though. You are correct. When using perf, it forces you to interpret the schematic and lay it out yourself. I started doing my own PCB designs because I prefer getting it worked out on paper first. Then it's just a wiring exercise after that. It's also quite a bit easier to make a mistake on perf. You can also do a layout on paper for per as well. There are pros and cons for each method, as with most other things in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Paul, I totally agree - perf is great for quick-and-dirty builds, and if you're doing a one-off, it's probably not worth the time to design and etch a board, but if there's a board available, it'll make building and troubleshooting a lot easier (and faster), especially since you won't have layout issues with a proven board design. You could simply lay out your components on perf exactly like the GGG layout, but there's still the problem of getting everything connected correctly without crossing wires or getting input and output wires too close to one another, so it's probably worth the extra $20AU just to get that part done for you. Less time reworking = more time playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted November 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Ordered my 'ready to solder' board a min ago and placed an order with Steve at Small Bear, its great how he has the part lists all done up already, at least i know i am getting all the right components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 And unlike DSE, he's more than likely got it all on hand, so you'll actually get it in a reasonable amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted November 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Haha yeh that was tradgic, but they must have got mixed up and they sent everything out to me again, enough to make another one mini amp!! weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Good move. I think that the RTS board will save you a lot of time and headaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Cavanaugh Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 I can tell you from first hand experience that it's quicker, easier, and neater to do a PCB instead of perfboard. I worked with middle-aged to elderly women this summer stuffing PCB's... Of course, right now, I'm building a rather complex power supply (basically six in one) that I have no choice but to build on perfboard, because I had to design it from scratch as a project for my Electronics class. If I wasn't such a good solderer, that board would be looking like a nightmare! However, it still doesn't look anywhere near as neat as if I'd etched a PCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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