goth_fiend Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 i have been reading all over the net about 8 string guitars and the fact that they dont have a trem available (yet...) but what if i were to use a floyd rose, get 2 more saddles, and have a new baseplate and block machined and of coarse a lock nut as well, could that even possibly work or am I just having delusions of divebombing an F#? i have seen an ibanez 8 string fxedge bridge (fixed floyd) and that is why I ask, i figure thats more then likely what they did, also since you would obviously be dealing with more string tension, would it be safe to assume you may want to make a spring cavity for more they 5 springs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 I don't see any reason why it couldn't. I suspect that there just isn't enough profit in the market to justify Floyd Rose making one like that of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted November 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 that is true, I dont think that 8's will gain as much popularity as 7 strings have so i dont think we will se them anytime soon, which is why i asked if i decide to build an 8 i will give it a shot, lets get some more input on the subject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american_jesus Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 i'm sure you could, but you're going to have to screw around with the base plate, the inertia block(i think that's what it's called, the big weight on the bottom), the springs and everything for the extra tension. could be very cool, but it could turn out to be very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 and you probably ought to get a valium scrip before you start stringing it up the first time. six string floyd roses make me mumble, eight would probably make me kick my dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 On the other hand, what about an 8 string Speedloader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Waay back in '91 when you couldn't get 7-string hardware at all, we made a 7-string floyd out of a 6-string by installing an extra custom saddle on the baseplate next to the low E. It had no fine tuner, and it used the ball end of the string to catch under the baseplate. They just had 6-string lock nuts anyway. So the 7th string had just a regular nut piece made from graphite next to the lock nut. It was like a nut extension, without a lock. So the 7th string was non-locking at the bridge or nut. You could do the same thing with a 7-string OFR or licensed FR and a 7-string lock nut. Just have a regular nut extension for the 8th string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Actually, for an 8-string nut, you could take (2) 6-string locking nuts, and mill off the lower 4 sections on one of them....ta-da: 8-string locking nut. Of course, you'd have to drill/tap a new mounting hole for the back, but....still... 8-string SpeedLoader? LMAO. Not gonna happen, at least not from Floyd. You might see custom jobbies, but nothing from the factory like that. Yes, Goth Fiend- You will want at least one more spring available because of the increased tension. This means not only machining a new block for the trem, but also creating a new claw, and routing the guitar body for the extra room that's needed for those components. And of course, the added expense of an extra spring. As stated before, unless Charlie Hunter and Rusty Cooley are topping the Billboard charts, most 8-string stuff won't see major production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Kevan - I didn't mean an official 8 string Floyd Speedloader, I just had a thought since unclej brought it up, that yes, an 8 string floyd would be alot of work, and maybe making an 8 string speedloader would be a better plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Heh heh...that's cool. Either way, it's gonna be tough to see an 8-string trem from anyone w/o some major record sales/exposure. Another problem with an 8-string SpeedLoader is: strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 (edited) You'd have to get singles. But that's not that big a problem. EDIT: Or a set for a 7 string and one lower/higher string. Edited November 13, 2004 by spirit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 For what it's worth, I have now got a completed 8 string base plate for floyd saddles. Should work fine, there are a couple of issues with it though. 1. string tension, haven't strung it yet but I guarantee it will take 4 to 5 springs, not a huge deal. 2. Body strength for the bushings, I need to make sure I have a stronger body block, I have concerns about the strength of the body where the bushings are going in. 3. This is the big one, Floyd rose design royalties. I have looked into this and for what they want me to pay for approval don't expect to see an 8 string trem from me in a long time. The cost for "licensed under floyd rose" is astronomical Couple of other issues, the extra string tension means the pivot points of a steel baseplate will wear much faster, I'm working on putting hardened inserts in there. The whole plate could be hardened, but that makes the overall piece more brittle as well. Of course then there is the plating issues etc, so far my 8 string trem has cost me about $800 and I still don't know if it will work LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted November 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 (edited) i was figuring that cost would be an issue on it, so thats cool, im thinking I will do it later down the line, im workin on the design of the base plate and block right now, as for the claw, that wont be too big an issue, i was thinking of making the claw able to hold 7 springs so that would be 2 more springs in there if at it needed it (i would doubt i would need more then 5 but better safe then sorry! another issue i just though of is that 8th strings saddle, since the string is in effect a bass string, i dont know if it would fit, so i might have to have a saddle milled out a bit jeremy what kind of steel did you use on it? how long have you been working on it? any pics? also i dont think that i would have to worry about getting into trouble for just making one of these would i? you mentioned getting the "licensed under floyd rose" costs are a lot. also would it be safe to assume that new bushing would have to be fabricated as well? Edited November 13, 2004 by goth_fiend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 2. Body strength for the bushings, I need to make sure I have a stronger body block, I have concerns about the strength of the body where the bushings are going in. Jeremy- you might want to consider an extremly hard wood insert, or even moving to a metal insert. Mmmmm....7075..... I have a couple of other thoughts for ya, but we can talk about those on IM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Why IM, (unless you are refering to other stuff) I will love to see some of your ideas and contribute a bit to if possible, I was thinking on the steel side, or better yet aluminum since it's the latest hype and everybody says that it transports the sound waves better! I was thinking into a 5/8 X 5/8 X 1 1/4" aluminum block, threaded and helicoiled, pressed on a 5/8" mortise. You can make the aluminum block 1/32" larger than 5/8 if you want a thigher fit! I thougth about a round insert like the one that floyd uses but I think that a square one will exert more even preassure onto the wood. I will love to see it done, even if it is a mock up one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Why IM, (unless you are refering to other stuff).I've got some other stuff to talk to him about that doesn't really fit in this thread. Nothing personal, guys. or better yet aluminum since it's the latest hype and everybody says that it transports the sound waves better!Psst....."7075" is aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 2. Body strength for the bushings, I need to make sure I have a stronger body block, I have concerns about the strength of the body where the bushings are going in. Jeremy- you might want to consider an extremly hard wood insert, or even moving to a metal insert. Mmmmm....7075..... I have a couple of other thoughts for ya, but we can talk about those on IM. Inserts are great, but you still have to have the surrounding wood strong enough to withstand the insert it's all the loads in a small area that make it tough to do. I've seen the standard inserts on a 6 string crack the wood, so the trick would be redesigning the cavity to allow more "meat" around the bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Didn't the Floyd Rose patents expire or pass into the public domain a year or two ago? The new Ibanez Edge/Edge Pro bridges no longer say "Licensed Under Floyd Rose Patents" on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted November 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 i have no clue, but those bushings have been on my mind all day and all i can think of is to have a very dense wood or metal insert of somekind in the body or perhaps even an "anchor" of sorts that would bolt staight thru the body, less likelyhood of a crack there especially if your using a dense body wood(i dont think mahogany would work very well in this case) god how i want to make one of these sooo bad now!!!! also i was thinking if i do make one, that having space for 7 springs in the back would be satisfactory (or should i make room for say 9?-seems like over kill to me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drezdin Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 how about using more than 2 inserts or just different designed inserts. Maybe something that pivots with ballbearings like the vigier trem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 My bad on that one Kevan, I had almost always used the 6061, but never that 7075, is there any difference in the hardness on maleability? Never had a problem with 6061 and it was the most ready available in my area! Jeremy that's why I suggested the square insert it will distribute the load better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted November 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 drez, that might be an idea, but i think it would be tough to incorperate it into a floyd design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted November 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 how wide do you guys think the block would have to be for an 8 string floyd? of coarse i plan on making it out of solid brass(i have a 8"x2"x1/2" piece that is unmilled-sweet!) also what cost do you guys think would be involved in making just the base plate? (i was figuring if i can do the cad work myself it would save me some money) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Goth fiend, Unless you plan on making a hardened insert for against the posts, brass will not last long enough with that much tension. It is to soft, especially depending on the type of brass you have. Stainless is what I used, much harder to work with, but it will hold up at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted November 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 you mean it might not be able to handle the spring tension?i would think it could considering gotoh uses the same material for there blocks, i could be wrong though, i got a lot more research before i build this thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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