soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 My sarcasm is only toward these guys being so damn sure of themselves. I even said I can't be sure what those hangers might do, but I just don't trust them. But, these guys are 100% sure they can't cause harm. They don't really know that for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Here's the kind of "hanger" I think is the safest : http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/soa...gtr-holder1.jpg LMAO. It's funny that you believe that type to be the safest. I'll have to put my vote in for that type being the least safe. Many guitar manuf's have those side-mounts for their displays at NAMM. I've watched dealers, artists, and even company employees fumble, stumble, scratch/ding/dent, and even dump the guitar before they got it sitting in there correctly. It's only amusing to watch when it's not your guitar. :-) I've had mine hung for weeks at a time with ZERO tuning change, and no one has ever mis-mounted it. Ever. If you feel the "side mount" is better than the "hangar mount", then go for it. It's all you, my man. I'm sticking with my hangars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 (edited) Why would it be the least safest ? It's clamped with a cork-covered hold-down. Nothing is pressing the neck, just the string tension. Neck has stayed dead-on for 12 years or so. The frets will eventually wear and I'm pretty sure when they're pulled, I probably won't need to do any fret-board leveling. Edited December 5, 2004 by soapbarstrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Why would it be the least safest ? It's clamped with a cork-covered hold-down.Many guitar manuf's have those side-mounts for their displays at NAMM. I've watched dealers, artists, and even company employees fumble, stumble, scratch/ding/dent, and even dump the guitar before they got it sitting in there correctly. It's only amusing to watch when it's not your guitar. :-) Nothing is pressing the neck, just the string tension. I'm not quite following where you're getting this reverse tension from. If a guitar is hanging by it's headstock, where is the tension on the back of the neck? I see gravity coming into play due to the vertical nature of the hanging, but I don't see anything else in the equasion that would cause the neck to relief or backbow, or otherwise mis-shape it. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Many guitar manuf's have those side-mounts for their displays at NAMM. I've watched dealers, artists, and even company employees fumble, stumble, scratch/ding/dent, and even dump the guitar before they got it sitting in there correctly. It's only amusing to watch when it's not your guitar. :-) Ok, that makes it the least safest . about 10 years ago, I went to a music store, and they had a bass drastically reduced in price because the head stock was broke off and the body had some chips and broken knobs from falling off the wall hanger holder on the wall. Now, why that happened, I don't know and wasn't interested at the time in knowing all that detail. Perhaps it happened from " someone who fumbled and stumbled while trying the hang the guitar back up. So, that might make the hanger the least safest. If you want the best combo of safety and ease of use, we'll have to go with the typical floor stand, because if someone is playing guitar in a room with every type of stand/hanger, and the phone rings, the floor stand is the one they will be using that second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I see gravity coming into play due to the vertical nature of the hanging, but I don't see anything else in the equasion that would cause the neck to relief or backbow, or otherwise mis-shape it. Am I missing something? Yes, all the weight of the guitar being supported by the headstock. That' why I wouldn't trust it. Simple as that, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 i was at erlewine guitars a while back,and he had a very nice les paul style hanging from the headstock inside a glass case Yes, all the weight of the guitar being supported by the headstock. i still think that the small weight of the guitar does not counter the tension of the strings pulling it the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 That would be Mark Erlewine. I wonder if Dan would do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I put up a VERY NICE tutorial, with drawings, on 'that other site' a few years ago of some very nice wall hangars. Simple, cheap, effective, and they won't mark the neck joint over time like some hangars do. If you folks would like it up here, just let me know and I'll dig up the pics and post it again. I'll also add my cool (and super-cheap) case storage setup. 2-for-1! well of course that would be a good idea....especially the case storage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 You mod guys seem to be quite knowledgeable. I hope someday you can fix the forum from doing kooky stuff , like making a post look like it's had a recent reply, when in fact it hasn't. I'm actually interested in the tutorial. Might not be bad for a short temporary way of storing a guitar in my workshop area. And maybe when *you* do a tutorial, it's actually considered to be a tutorial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Hey, I'm just going by what I've seen at shows. The ones that are on hangars don't get fumbled-stumbled-bumbled; they just get hung up. I'll agree with you though- there is no accounting for what a human being can do. I've seen guys try to figure out a door knob. I've seen people wonder why the sun comes up. It's kinda odd that I always seem to be behind these people when I'm driving.... Try this: Have 20 guys try to get a side-mount guitar back on the mount, and have 20 guys try to get a guitar back on a hangar. Post the results. The floor ones are.....alright. Yes they're safe because gravity errors are minimized, but the Chip & Ding Factor goes up drastically. Especially if the phone rings. Yes, all the weight of the guitar being supported by the headstock. That's why I wouldn't trust it. Simple as that, really.We're talking about a piece of wood designed to work with 100 lbs.+ of tension and you believe that 6-8 lbs of guitar, held onto that piece of wood by 4 large wood screws, is going to alter that piece of wood in some way? Unless you have something applying force to the back of the neck (or to the front), the only factor here is gravity. You're not going to wake up one morning and have a baritone because it's hung on a hangar. The only line we're dealing with is up and down, and since it's gravity-based, it's going down. I'm sorry but I don't see any harm coming from holding the guitar vertically by the headstock. I also don't see any harm in the side mount or floor mounts either, as long as no one touches them. You mod guys seem to be quite knowledgeable. I hope someday you can fix the forum from doing kooky stuff , like making a post look like it's had a recent reply, when in fact it hasn't.Huh? I'm actually interested in the tutorial. Might not be bad for a short temporary way of storing a guitar in my workshop area.I'll try to get them up this weekend. I want to make sure the wood I used hasn't streched out from being hung these past two years. LOL And maybe when *you* do a tutorial, it's actually considered to be a tutorial.Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 (soapbarstrat @ Dec 5 2004, 01:00 AM) You mod guys seem to be quite knowledgeable. I hope someday you can fix the forum from doing kooky stuff , like making a post look like it's had a recent reply, when in fact it hasn't. Huh? In the "Put it to a vote section", a thread gets the bright green "new response" look to it, and moves to the top depending not on responses but on votes. I think. This may be the source of confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 (soapbarstrat @ Dec 5 2004, 01:00 AM) You mod guys seem to be quite knowledgeable. I hope someday you can fix the forum from doing kooky stuff , like making a post look like it's had a recent reply, when in fact it hasn't. Huh? In the "Put it to a vote section", a thread gets the bright green "new response" look to it, and moves to the top depending not on responses but on votes. I think. This may be the source of confusion. maybe it's something wrong with my computer then, because I see post marked as if a new message has been added, then it turns out the latest message is the one I had already seen a day or two ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 yeah i believe it is getting bumped by votes in the invision admin,there is a box which you can choose to bump a poll when a vote is added,as if it was a new reply.i assume that is the option that is chosen on this board. but i am not admin on this site,so i do not know if that is really the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 We're talking about a piece of wood designed to work with 100 lbs.+ of tension and you believe that 6-8 lbs of guitar, held onto that piece of wood by 4 large wood screws, is going to alter that piece of wood in some way? Unless you have something applying force to the back of the neck (or to the front), the only factor here is gravity. You're not going to wake up one morning and have a baritone because it's hung on a hangar. The only line we're dealing with is up and down, and since it's gravity-based, it's going down. I'm sorry but I don't see any harm coming from holding the guitar vertically by the headstock. I also don't see any harm in the side mount or floor mounts either, as long as no one touches them. I never said anything about *stretching*. My concern is with a fingerboard that is properly level, with the neck under string tension, and being kept that way, by how the guitar is always being stored. LGM says his stayed in exact tune on and off the hanger. I'll have to see it to believe it, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 The neck is under string tension no matter what positon it's in- hung by the wings of the headstock, resting in a side-mount, being played, in a case. There's always string tension as long as it's strung up. - If you hung a guitar by the strap button on the back, would it go out of tune/affect the neck? - If you hung a guitar by it's strap from a clothes line (inside, of course), would it go out of tune/affect the neck? I think that as long as there is not a point of contact or force on the back of the neck or the fingerboard pushing in either direction, hanging a guitar from it's headstock does no damage to the guitar itself. You're welcome to stop by here anytime and test out any of my guitars. As long as it doesn't go from 80F to 30F in an hour, they're all rock solid. Here's a little preview of the Hangar Tutorial: http://tremol-no.com/images/hangars/WALL007.JPG (the EGYPT *was* on a hangar at one time; now it's got it's own special glass case) I couldn't find the old pics I did 3 years ago for that 'other site', so I'll do a new CAD image for you guys with the numbers and stuff. They're pretty simple, and very strong. EDIT- HANGAR TUTORIAL IS HERE: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=12806 Soap- how about the case storage one I'm gonna do? I'm sure you'd like to get all those cases out of the way, no? I'll check into the vote bumping. That annoys me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Seems that Larivee guitars stated in the owners manual that the warranty will be void if the guitar is stored on a hanger. Perhaps they can actually tell if a guitar has been stored this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Where? http://www.larrivee.com/data/warranty/warranty.html I scanned the rest of the site and couldn't find anything about hangars. If you'd like, I can give them a call tomorrow and find out the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Well look, somebody said, "tune your guitar, then hang it, then tune it again, see if it changes" guess what, it doesn't! I have never had a guitar fall from the hangers I have in my room, as far as I'm concerned if there was any type of hanger that would be harder on necks it would be the side style one soapbar showed, you now have gravity pulling down on the neck rather than it all hanging inline, but I don't believe that to be a problem either. I've had guitars hang on the wall for years, damn, some of them have so much dust on them you KNOW they haven't been played in years, and they're fine. The humidity and temperature changes I'm sure have a bigger effect on the necks than hanging does. I can't say 100% for sure that it doesn't damage them, but from my experience with my own personal guitars, as well as all the guitars I work on and set up for music stores here in town, I would feel pretty confident in saying it won't hurt them at all. I would never hesitate to hang any of my guitars, if you don't want to, that's fine, I'm not being 100% adamant about any of this, soapbar, I caught the sarcasm in your post where you quoted me, I can only assume you are talking about me being the one who is 100% sure it won't hurt anything, but your posts come across more like you're 100% sure we're all wrong. This has got to be one of the stupidest posts I've seen on PG ever oh, and for what it's worth, the guitar was tuned with a peterson strobe tuner off and on the hanger. The guitars are lock nut equipped. Also, I just looked, my larrivee manual says nothing about hanging guitars voiding the warranty, the guitar store I got it from has about 300 Larrivee's, every single one is on a hanger in the store Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 You're welcome to stop by here anytime and test out any of my guitars. As long as it doesn't go from 80F to 30F in an hour, they're all rock solid. So I can test drive the EGYPT if I'm in the area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 UPDATE: Hangar tutorial is done and can be found here: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=12806 So I can test drive the EGYPT if I'm in the area? Sure. Just give me 20 min. notice so I can get the underwear off the floor... I also changed the settings for the Polls area. Single votes will NOT bump topic; only actual posts will. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 (edited) Well, I did the "test" a few minutes ago. Had guitar in floor stand, tuned it, then held it up, with headstock "ears" resting on my thumb and index finger, like the guitar is held in a wall hanger . When in the hanger position, it went slighty flat. That would mean it's magnifying the string pull slightly, and causing the note to go slightly flat, which is what I had suspected all along. I stress *slightly* flat, but it was noticable on the tuner. Now, if it exaggerates string pull slightly, I have to wonder if it also exaggerates climate effect change on the neck. Forget about me trying to test that out - LOL About the Larivee info. I think it was this google newsgroup thread where that was mentioned : http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&...wsvr%26rnum%3D5 EDIT : actually, before when I suspected it would change string pull slightly, I really had no idea if it would increase the pull or decrease it. Now, after the test, I see it works *kind of* like on the neck-jig, with the "pull down" strap at the nut area. Edited December 6, 2004 by soapbarstrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 So I can test drive the EGYPT if I'm in the area? Sure. Just give me 20 min. notice so I can get the underwear off the floor... You have so much on there that it takes 20 minutes to pick up?? Heh, just kidding. Now I wish I had some reason to go to Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Well, I did the "test" a few minutes ago. Had guitar in floor stand, tuned it, then held it up, with headstock "ears" resting on my thumb and index finger, like the guitar is held in a wall hanger . When in the hanger position, it went slighty flat. That would mean it's magnifying the string pull slightly, and causing the note to go slightly flat, which is what I had suspected all along. I stress *slightly* flat, but it was noticable on the tuner. Now, if it exaggerates string pull slightly, I have to wonder if it also exaggerates climate effect change on the neck. Forget about me trying to test that out - LOL Dude, do you store your guitars in some reverse-gravity chamber? Alternate universe? Wormhole? Blackhole? How in the holyhell does the tuning go FLAT if it's being PULLED on? That officially defies the laws of physics Also, what kind of guitar are you using? Strat? Larrivee? Acoustic? Electric? Double-neck? Steinberger? Bowser- I need time to bring the wet/dry vac up from the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 How in the holyhell does the tuning go FLAT if it's being PULLED on? i second that question.i read it several times to make sure i was reading it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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