ctams Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 in my Saga Les Paul clone kit. I have a hum that won't go away on my stock LC-10 kit. Everything is grounded properly. But, when I touch the strings, tailpiece or jack, it silences. It's worse as the electrical interference in the room goes up, but no matter what the interference, always quiets down immediately when the strings etc. above are touched. What could this be? I have tried extra gounding, etc, but nothing helps. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJPUC Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Yeah i was gonna ask a similar question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 have you double checked to make sure that your tailpiece is grounded? the wires could be reversed on your output jack but it really sounds to me like the tailpiece isn't grounded properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctams Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Hey, thanks for the post. Yes, the tailpiece is grounded properly... the ground wire comes from my solder joint on top of the volume 1 pot, up through the hole for the tailpiece stud, is stripped and then wrapped around the inside top of that stud, which is then pushed into place with the wire wedged in place, as if a washer. To rule out this possible item, I took a long wire and touched it to the tailpiece while grounding it to a pot... it made no difference in the hum. I have not tried reversing the wires on the output jack. Will try that next, once home today, and we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 in my Saga Les Paul clone kit. I have a hum that won't go away on my stock LC-10 kit. Everything is grounded properly. But, when I touch the strings, tailpiece or jack, it silences. It's worse as the electrical interference in the room goes up, but no matter what the interference, always quiets down immediately when the strings etc. above are touched. What could this be? I have tried extra gounding, etc, but nothing helps. Thanks. Sounds like electrical interference from something else in the room actually. When you touch the strings, or anything metal, the buzz goes away. That's normal. I'll bet you are playing the guitar near the computer screen or a floresent light. Turn those things off and I'll bet that the buzz goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Other things that can cause hum/buzzing is transformers, such as the ubiquitous wall wart. Motors can also cause interference, too. Did you shield all of the guitar cavities? What's funny to me is that you have humbuckers in that guitar kit, no? Usually, humbuckers are pretty quiet, even with really high gain stuff (not counting microphonics). Are you sure that the pickups or output jack are wired correctly? There was a similar post not long ago where a guy had the same problem. It was corrected by reversing the wires on the output jack, which in this case, I have a hunch will work as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Paul has a good point. You might have a ground loop in your effects chain. To test that, just go straight into your amp with no extra stuff to muck up the signal path. I had a bad wall wart one time and when it was plugged into the tuner I would get a nasty buzz. It was really weird because the tuner is really a dead end on the effects chain. Just getting a better power supply fixed the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctams Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Thanks for all the ideas. I have since this afternoon reversed the wires to the output jack... made the noise far worse, so I put it back. No, I have not shielded any of the cavities, but that may be next. I know I get some interference from my pc, lights, etc. The guitar is perfect... silent... when fed straight into a Korg Toneworks with headphones, away from any other electronic sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Considering that the Saga kits are made with the cheapest components available, it's not surprising that you're getting a little hum and such. It's probably just the pickups and possibly the "solderless connections" on all the wires. Hard solder everything together, shield the cavities, and upgrade to quality brand-name pickups and I bet 99% of that hum will go away. You're always going to have a little hum with passive electronics, humbuckers or not. It sounds like your grounds are fine if the noise goes away when you touch the strings--that's what the purpose of string grounding is. You just have cheap microphonic pickups and lousy wiring. Nobody's fault but the manufacturer, and just remember that they're only trying to keep it inexpensive. They're only trying to get $100 for a box of parts that cost them $5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratDudeDan Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 i had this same issue with my strat. shielded it, still hummed like mad. tried everything, then realized that the actual shield wasn't grounded, instead acting as a massive antenna for noise. i ran a jumper wire from one of my pickup screws to in beween the washer and the nut on the output jack. i know it's crappy, but i kinda like the look, and it works. you might have something like that going on. i found this out, 'cause when i touched the screws, it [the hum] got louder. grounding that solved all of my problems except for the fact that i still practice under a flourescant, blasted thing...i just turn it off and turn all the lights in the room next to me on, open the door. i'm fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctams Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Thanks for the tips. I realize this is a cheap kit, but it finished really nicely in flat black lacquer (like a piano finish) and sounds really good from those little potted humbuckers. I live near a Guitar Center store, where you can play anything they sell, and this kit sounds every bit as good as many of the real Les Pauls I've picked up there. Also, because I did the finish work and set it up with lots of time to do it, the fit and finish is actually better than Gibson's in some regards, and I like the flat, satin type finish, particularly on the neck. It doesn't drag and grab like a slick poly finish can. I actually took this kit guitar to NYC after I finished it in November, where Les Paul still plays once a week at age 89. After the show I had him look over the guitar and sign it... right on the headstock, between the tuners! Les liked it, and when I described the hum problem to him, he said it was likely a ground issue. "Make sure you check the pots." That, coming from the man who invented the electric guitar! What a great night that was. So, to make a long story a little shorter, I have a special affinity for this guitar and will spend a few bucks on it. I like these little humbuckers, so I don't want to replace them right now, unless they are absolutely the culprits (but they are potted, so they shouldn't be, right?). I am satisfied with everything but the hum. Where would my money best be spent next? I am pretty certain the grounding issue has been put to rest. The Guitar plays sperfectly silent when on Toneworks and headphones. It sounds like I have a somewhat normal hum that could be reduced. Should I start by shielding and then grounding the cavities in copper foil? What about replacing any interioir wiring with shielded wire? Is that necessary, and if so, which wires would benefit? By the way, I have a picture of Les discussing the guitar with me. Does anyone care to see it? Thanks for the help here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 (edited) Yeah, let's see that picture! 89 and still kicking, huh? Wow. Well, I guess it wasn't the output jack after all.... On the hum, here is what I would do: I would shield all of the pickup and control cavities, making sure that they all have continuity with ground. In my last guitar project, I used this 2" wide self-adhesive "metal repair tape", which is just some aluminum foil with a sticky backing. I cut the pieces to size, placed them in my cavities, and then used some heavy duty staples to join all of the pieces together. As I went along, I checked for continuity between all sheilding. Once that was accomplished, I soldered a wire from ground to a wire terminal that was attached to the shielding via a screw into the body. Major improvment. My single coils are really quiet, even with some pretty high gain pedals I have. BTW, to do the staple part, I drilled some 1/32" holes with a Dremel Tool and then used some needle nose pliers to insert the staples into the holes. Some light tapping with a hammer and a piece of scrap metal rod drove them all the way into the body and maximized contact, ensuring good continuity between all of the pieces of aluminum. If you are careful, it looks good, too. Believe or not, it works! I should have done it before I completed the guitar, though. It was kind of a PITA to do it after the fact, though... Edited December 17, 2004 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctams Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I'm off to HomeDepot to buy copper roof flashing to shield the guitar. I think I'll just solder the seams/joints together. The stuff is 10inx20ft x3mm thick, so it shouldn't require many seams. Do I need to fasten the shielding to the wood other than having the 4 pots holding it down? Also, I guess I'll run a small wire from a solder point on the copper shield to a pot, right? I'll post the pix of the Great One, Les Paul, soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctams Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I was wrong. Les Paul is actually 90! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Yeah, copper shielding is probably a little better still. Are you sure that stuff is 3mm thick?! If so, you going to have a hell of a time bending that stuff! I think you might want copper foil instead. Anyhow, I would definitely glue it to the guitar cavity so it can't move around and possibly short anything. Or you could even use some special conductive paint. Stewart MacDonald sells it as well as other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctams Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 They must mean 3mm thick including the tar and paper, because the copper is only a little thicker than heavy duty aluminum foil. I completed the shielding, soldered the seams, tacked them into place, grounded each cavity to the main volume pot, and it seems to have helped... seems much quieter. I'll know for certain when I take it to a bud's house, where the fluorescent lights, etc. add lots of noise. I still have to post that pic. For anyone interested, the Home Depot copper flashing worked real well. I didn't remove the paper from most of it because it was a pain, and had no problems soldering with the tar and paint present (always soldering on the copper side). Thanks again. I'll be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) Cool. Hopefully that will get rid of most of the hum. Thanks also for the tip on the cheap copper shielding trick. You know, I had one more thought on those humbuckers. How many wires are coming from the pickups? Some humbucking pickups have four wires (like DiMarzio), and if you wire them wrong, you could get two parallel single coils instead of a humbucker, which would give you a lot of hum... Edited December 20, 2004 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 ...if you wire them wrong, you could get two parallel single coils instead of a humbucker, which would give you a lot of hum... Yes, but the only way you could wire them parallel that wasn't humbucking would be to wire the singles out of phase, and the brittle tone and lack of bottom and volume should be immediately obvious. If it sounds like a humbucker, you can be reasonably sure the factory wired it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yes, but the only way you could wire them parallel that wasn't humbucking would be to wire the singles out of phase, and the brittle tone and lack of bottom and volume should be immediately obvious. Yeah, that's a good point. I'm not an expert on guitar wiring, it was just a thought. Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctams Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 The humbuckers each have two wires, not four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Well, you can't wire those wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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