Someone Teach These People How To Build Guitars

[Daniel Sorbera]

check this out hahhahaha hahahahaah The strings arnt putting enough pressure on the top. not to mention it looks UGLY. Ugly like some sorta swamp thing.

[lovekraft]

Luthiers have been trying to find a way to reduce the tension on the top for years, so they could use a lighter bracing system, and free up the top to vibrate more readily. This is just another attempt - I've never played one, so I can't tell you how well it works, but there's nothing basically unsound in the reasoning to suggest that it won't work. Jeff worked for Ned Steinberger back in the day, so he's no dummy -he may well know something we don't.

[darren wilson]

I saw that a couple of weeks ago, and while it's intriguing, i don't see how spreading the string tension out over the whole lower bout is any more beneficial than anchoring the strings in a heel block or floating tailpiece of some kind.

[frank falbo]

Darren, I guess fanning them out would put a sharp break angle on the saddle, but then again, it doesn't because the break angle is pre-saddle, not at the saddle. Then the middle two strings have way less break tension than the outer two.

I can't tell what I think about the 6 different "sound sources" from the tension of each string, vs. a single source. (standard bridgeplate)

Basically I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until I play one. (if ever) And major props are in order for making a truly adjustable neck. It's a floater like a Strat with a tilt adjuster or something. Then again, how good can that sound when the neck isn't tightly anchored to the body? It's a huge puzzle to me. I saw it about a year ago and hated it instantly, now I don't know anymore.

I have two ways to reduce the tension on the top while still applying aggressive downward pressure against the saddles. Maybe someday I'll get them patented and share them. (I still have to build the second one, it's only a drawing) Until then I have to sit back and ridicule this Babicz while congratulating him at the same time!

[syxxstring]

The Breedlove/Bridge Doctor concept certainly works in thier guitars. I can't bash it till I try it.

Unfortunatley trying it in Las Vegas means going to the troll

[Myka Guitars]

I agree with you Darren, the taipliece idea would probably do the same thing. And this has been done before with the Selmer/Macaferri gypsy jazz guitars.

Every adjustable neck system I have ever heard about does anchor quite firmly against the body. Harry Fleishman uses a system where there are two bolts pulling the neck against the body and 3 set screws holding it off that are adjustable. You loosen the 2 main bolts to bdo the adjustments. It is very stable. Also check out Mike Doolin's work.

[stageleft]

I actually played one of those a month or so ago at guitar center in Queens NY. I liked it, although i can't say I really heard or felt any real difference from any of the other "standard" guitars I played that day. It is a very well made guitar, and I would really be interested to see how it holds up long term. That will be for someone else though.....I got a taylor.

George

[ToneMonkey]

My initial thinking on destressing the top would be to drill 6 little slots behind the bridge that the strings could pass through (without touching the top) and mounting them to a block attached to the bottom and the very back of the guitar.

Tadda, unstressed with the exception of the strings pulling down on the bridge. All the force that the top sees is the (near) vertical force on the bridge.

Good or bad idea?

Kaj

[frank falbo]

That's basically the idea I that I haven't built yet. You'd string it from the butt end of the guitar, by the strap button. But to alleviate the extra string length needed you could have long tubes with a "catch" in them, like the way the strings sort of disappear into the back of a vintage strat trem. Then the tubes would round upward so the string would protrude from the top at the right trajectory. Otherwise you'd be trying to fish the strings through those holes forever.

The other design I have already built, and I guess I'll talk about that one when one of you guys figure it out too!

[Myka Guitars]

Aw c'mon Frank! Don't hold out on us...What did you build?

[ToneMonkey]

The other design I have already built, and I guess I'll talk about that one when one of you guys figure it out too!

Have something pulling in the opposite direction of the strings to cancel out their force, leaving (in theory anyway) an prety much unstressed top.

Hell man, I should start building some of these ideas instead of posting them on the net

Go on, if that's not it, give us a clue

[frank falbo]

Don't you think I should try to patent it first?

I've never really make any "real money" off of my ideas, they've all been stolen so far. So maybe someday I can patent something, and then hold the world hostage like Floyd Rose did throughout the entire 1980's.

If someone either beats me to it, or (in most cases because I don't patent anything) someone else independently invents it also, then I'll be glad to share it because I'll have nothing to protect anymore.

Tone Monkey's idea is represented pretty well by that JD Bridge Doctor. That's a pretty good idea. It attatches to the bridge and counteracts the string tension by pushing in the other direction. That's not what I've done.

Now please all of you stop thinking about it. I don't want anyone to guess.

[ACSpike]

great, without your prior art someone else can hold the world hostage

[Pr3Va1L]

Hey! I'd just like to add some to this thread... I know it's a really old thread, but today I got to try a Babicz...

There was a show in Montreal where there were about 40 different luthiers... Well you can guess I checked them all out (some build really weird things!!) but 2 guitars really struck me there. There was a Babicz (which I REALLY had been wanting to hear for a long time), and a fanned fret acoutic...

Anyways, back to the Babicz, I have no idea why, but that thing actually works. This guitar was really alive. Sounded clear and VERY articulate! Like... I could play a chord and then stum a few strings and they would ring out really clearly.

Also, it was extremely dinamic. It didn't sound the same at ALL depending on how hard you played it and if you fingerpicked, etc. I really liked the change compared to a lot of acoustics...

Also, the neck system of his, it's really weird idea, but pretty cool. Basically, his neck is movable in a vertical direction with a single bolt, and while the strings are still on. The reason, he said, is that you can have perfect action without adjusting the saddle and stuff like that (I.E. You could use it as a slide guitar and then in 2 minutes have a regular guitar ready). It also seems that the guitar sounds very different depending on the height of the neck...

And btw, I saw a picture of the bracing he uses... There's almost none, or at least not for countering string tension (only 2 braces, actually (plus some for where the strings are anchored...))

Anyways, I just wanted to revive that thread because I was really impressed by the guy's ideas and the sound of that thing... (I was really sceptic before trying it, btw.)

[Nitefly SA]

The Breedlove/Bridge Doctor concept certainly works in thier guitars. I can't bash it till I try it.

Unfortunatley trying it in Las Vegas means going to the troll

Just hide his gold, that'll keep him busy for a few hours.

[erikbojerik]

I've never really make any "real money" off of my ideas, they've all been stolen so far. So maybe someday I can patent something...

When I was 10 and learning to do chores around the house, I thought up an idea to have a sponge-type mop with a scrubby pad on the edge, you flip the mop over, scrub, then flip it back & wipe.

Ten years later I see it in the store. [/headslap]

[guitarchump]

Just think of how rich that guy is now LOL. Not bad becoming a millionare off some 10 cent peice of scotch bright pad on the side of a mop!

[Nitefly SA]

I thought up a power strip with tentical-like arms so that you could use ALL the outlets when using power adapters instead of just 2 or 3(I needed 2 power strips to get all my adapters in). I was messing with the idea of calling it "the octopus". A year or two later I'm walking through target and BAM! there's the "power squid" same exact idea except one thing, it exists. Its inventor of it is on some beach and me left pissed and, in ownership of one....

[Pr3Va1L]

Heh, I had tought of making some camera boxes that would be put in touristic places (like... somewhere where you can see the liberty statue in the background or stuff like that) that would take pictures and send them to you via e-mail or print them... And Last year I saw one here in Montreal.

[rlrhett]

I hate to be the wet blanket in all of this dreaming of patents, but as an attorney who works a lot with start-ups, each with the "GREAT" idea, let me say:

1. Getting a patent is not cheap. A reputable attorney in So.Cal. will charge you between $8K and 15K for a mechanical device, more for chemical or biological.

2. The prior art is literally mind-bogglingly broad. The examiners always make you work to prove that your invention is non-obvious and novel. This takes time, money and a strong stomach. Imagine investing hundreds of thousands of dollars (see below) while your patent is pending just to get an action letter from the examiner rejecting all your claims. People have had nervous breakdowns for less.

3. Once you have the patent, you have no guarantee that you will make money off of it. How much will someone REALLY pay to use your invention, even if it is useful? How much would YOU pay to license the invention?

4. If you are going to manufacture the invention yourself, it can take literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, to bring a product to the US marketplace. Do you have the money for prototypes, tooling, facilities rent, travel, marketing, etc.?

5. If someone rips you off, do you have the resources to sue them? What if they are in China selling your doodad on the internet distributed by some guy in a warehouse in LA, or Detroit or Charlotte? You could spend $35K on a lawsuit just to have them disappear once you finally have an injunction.

Yep, sorry to say, the guy who thought of putting a brillo pad on a mop probably didn't make any money off of it either. The guy with a million dollars and the know-how to market to supermarkets and big box stores is the one sitting pretty.

Unless you really have the resources to market your invention, I suggest sharing it with the community, getting the props you deserve, and feeling good about contributing to your fellow luthiers is probably the best option for most people.

[Daniel Sorbera]

Getting slightly back on track.

I went into my local sam ash a few days ago and saw one of those guitars.

Unfortunatly they had it up behind the counter and wouldn't let me play it

But it did look very interesting...

[psw]

Unless you really have the resources to market your invention, I suggest sharing it with the community, getting the props you deserve, and feeling good about contributing to your fellow luthiers is probably the best option for most people.

Yep...hence the DIY sustainer thread. There are novel ideas and approaches involved but I have no means to market or otherwise take advantage of it and I have enough heartbreak as it is. In the end, sharing and growing ideas through a forum like this and active participation by others will grow an idea faster, so if you have something...it's worth sharing. Well said... pete

[Hoser Rob]

Jeff Babicz does know how how to make guitars, I dare say a lot better than anyone who posts here by a long shot. Never heard one so I won't say.

However, I think it looks silly and I don't know where you'd get strings that long around here.

[fryovanni]

Jeff Babicz does know how how to make guitars, I dare say a lot better than anyone who posts here by a long shot. Never heard one so I won't say.

However, I think it looks silly and I don't know where you'd get strings that long around here.

It does seem pretty silly looking at the title of this topic. I wonder if it is possible to change that to "What do you think of this design" or "What do you think of Babicz design ideas".

If you are rounding up a PG possie to go teach Babicz. I seriously doubt you will get many volunteers (at least that have built an acoustic).

Peace,Rich