Why Grain Filler And Sealer?

[Mickguard]

I have a question --if sand n' sealer acts as a grain filler, why use grain filler?

And here's another question -- reranch describes grain filler as 'having the consistency of peanut butter' , but the only stuff I was able to find here for that is pretty liquid --so maybe that's not the right stuff?

I did find a sand n' sealer finally though. At least, I think that's what it is --damned French, why won't they learn English?

Last question: in the auto store, in the rattle can section, they sell a couple of different rattle can-based filllers --one's thicker than the other. Has anyone used these and are they a good sand and sealer?

[BJPUC]

I was gonna ask a similar question. And I have resources like Home Depot, Wal-Mart...etc......Any Help?????

[Drak]

Sanding sealer is NOT a grain filler.

The reason sanding sealer exists is to make it easier to sand due to it having SOAP in it as an ingredient. And it DOES seal the wood, therefore, it seals the wood, then makes it easy to sand. Sanding sealer.

Says nothing about being a grain filler.

Grain filler fills grain. Grain filler. Fills grain. Hahahahaaaaa!!!!

There are a few different types of grain filler with somewhat different consistencies. And quite possibly, whatever you were messing about with, you didn't stir it up maybe? The heavy stuff in grain filler will settle to the bottom and needs to be stirred up. The top, if left undisturbed, will look very thin and watery to the eye.

The auto-stuff, I don't know. I'd have to see it to see what it contained to tell if it was safe to use. Also depends on what you're putting over top of it.

[BJPUC]

what are some good brands of grain filler i can find here in the states???sorry to keep dragging this on! thanx

[Mickguard]

<<Says nothing about being a grain filler.

Okay, I'm not clear why one has to fill the grain then in that case --isn't it just to seal the wood so it'll be easier to paint?

<And quite possibly, whatever you were messing about with, you didn't stir it up maybe?

Yep, this is possible. Though stirring wasn't mentioned on the label

<<The auto-stuff, I don't know. I'd have to see it to see what it contained to tell if it was safe to use. Also depends on what you're putting over top of it.

The brand's Carlux. They have a complete line from scratch to finish, which helps (although they don't have a grain filler, since they stopped making wooden cars)...for the next guitar I'll be using a color coat for the back....I'd like to go with a clear coat over the natural grain, but that depends on how well my glue lines come out!

[Drak]

<<Okay, I'm not clear why one has to fill the grain then in that case --isn't it just to seal the wood so it'll be easier to paint?

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OK, let's look at your terminology, you just mixed the two products as if they were one, so let's clarify what one does and what the other does.

Read first post again.

Filling grain and sealing wood are 2 completely different operations, but I understand why you're confused if you've never used either one yet.

Actually, I never use sanding sealer. I know some others promote it, and I think what they're trying to do is make a system that will work for just about anyone who is willing to try it, so I'm not knocking Re-Ranch, he's just trying to promote a system that is repeatable and works for the widest audience, which is a great thing to shoot for, but the sanding sealer is most of the times unnecessary IMO. I never use it anyway. But for a newb, or a guy who will do one single guitar, it's a good way to go to make things go easier (I guess)

Sanding sealer is typically used from an aerosol bomb, and you can think about sanding sealer -exactly- like you'd think of a can of lacquer, because basically, that's exactly what it is, with soap product added to make it sand really easy.

Well, if you took a can of lacquer and shot one or two coats on a guitar, that would certainly seal the wood, wouldn't it? And that's exactly what sanding sealer does. It's nothing more than a can of lacquer with a little bit of soap product in it to make it sand real easy. That's it.

Grain filler is like a paste, or like a mudpie. It fills all the little holes and voids and grains in the wood surface. But part of applying grain filler is wiping everything back off that didn't fill up the voids, so with grain filler, you are not sealing the wood at all, just making everything level by filling in the open grains in the wood, kapish?

<<The brand's Carlux. They have a complete line from scratch to finish, which helps (although they don't have a grain filler, since they stopped making wooden cars)...for the next guitar I'll be using a color coat for the back....I'd like to go with a clear coat over the natural grain, but that depends on how well my glue lines come out!

Yes, it IS recommended that you stay within one product line if at all possible, especially if you don't yet understand all the interplay issues of using these various products.

Behlen's makes EVERYTHING you need, from grain filler, to sanding sealer, to lacquer, to just about everything I can think of, if you're looking for a reference company to use.

[rhoads56]

double post shenanigins

[rhoads56]

Hmmmm......

I can spend hours filling grain, with, err, grain filler, or i can spend five minutes using sanding sealer (one coat, spray gun, areosol, or more time consuming: paint brush), and 5-15 minutes of sanding (as you have to do anyhow).

Sanding sealer is not called sanding sealer because its easy to sand. Its called sanding sealer because it seals wood, and sanding scratches, and grain. Its self levelling, and quick drying. It FILLS the grain.

Think of it like primer, if you like.

Its a high solids, clear lacquer based product, specifically designed to give a quick, solid, sandable, FLAT surface, with which to continue lacquering over with a compatible lacquer. Using lacquer only, can take 3-15 coats just to fill the grain, sanding sealer needs one, SOMETIMES two coats.

There is a reason its used by all furniture manufacturers, because its quick, works well, and it fool proof.

I am unsure of the "grain fillers" Drak uses, but the ones ive tried are a compromise (time and quality), and therefore a waste of time.

[Drak]

I never use grain fillers either.

I think they suck myself.

I was just explaining exactly what product does what and why.

Doesn't mean I use 'em.

My grain fillers are either clear or dyed epoxy, CA glue, or regular lacquer these days.

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Sanding sealer is not called sanding sealer because its easy to sand. Its called sanding sealer because it seals wood, and sanding scratches, and grain. Its self levelling, and quick drying.

__

Same damn thing basically.

__

Its a high solids, clear lacquer based product, specifically designed to give a quick, solid, sandable, FLAT surface, with which to continue lacquering over with a compatible lacquer. Using lacquer only, can take 3-15 coats just to fill the grain, sanding sealer needs one, SOMETIMES two coats.

__

True, I didn't mention it was also a high-solids product, which it is.

I think what he needed was a crystal clear explanation between these 2 products and what you use them for.

They both have their place, it just depends on what kind of finish you're shooting for.

And I think he's getting his information from ReRanch, so I think it's important to explain why Bill does use these products, even tho you or I may not.