silvertonessuckbutigotone Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hi, I was just lookingat a few wood suppliers and saw that there are different sections between Curly Hard Maple and Curly Soft Maple. I am smart enough to know that hard is harder than soft, but by what degree? Is soft too soft to use for necks and tops and the like? Is one easier to work with? I was just wondering because if I can use either, I'd have more of a selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MzI Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I guess i can take a stab at this one, generally speaking the soft version will come from western big leaf, same as quilted maple, the hard version usually comes from eastern hard rock maple. The hard version you can use for necks, i used some with purple heart laminates in my last bass, talk about rock hard, the soft version i believe you cannot unless its as super thin laminates between other hard pieces of wood, im not totally sure bout that tho, someone with more experience will need to answer that for you. if you do decide to use the hard curly maple for a neck just be careful because you cannot run it thru a jointer or planner or use a spokeshave on it, it will chip out and destroy a nice smooth finish that you have, i used sand paper and a rasp to do most of my shapping and had little to no problems at all MzI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 according to what i have learned from drak and others...hard maple is the wood of choice that as a top balances out a mahogany body to get that killer les paul tone. soft maple is more for looks,if you want quilt. but soft maple is considered unsuitable for necks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertonessuckbutigotone Posted January 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 I talked to a luthier I know through my dad. Bill Moll, I emailed him about it. And told him my purposes for the maple (maple/ebony/purpleheart/ebony/maple laminate neck) and he replied with this to say: "You definitely want “soft” maple. Almost all maples are actually plenty hard for our purposes but, hard maple, also called rock maple or sugar maple, is harder and denser than is needed, and very difficult to work with – a real bear to cut and carve." I dunno what I will do. I'll probably get 2 small quantities of both and try them out and expieriment with them. Any other opinions feel free to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MzI Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 hard maple is definetly not too hard to work with, ebony and purple heart thats a different story, after working with mahogany and black walnut, mahogany especially i feel they are too soft, the maple i worked with for the neck was quite nice actually shaped alot easier, mainly its hard but not so hard that you cant sand it and get a nice shape out of it, but if you are going to be using ebony and purple heart, depending on the size of the pieces of maple you use id think you would be ok, just dont go to thin, you can always add carbon rods if you dont feel that it will be strong enough MzI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 umm...there is not a guitar company i know of that uses soft maple for necks. why would a luthier worth his salt say that workability is an issue when you are using it with ebony and purpleheart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 *Anything* Bill tells you can be taken as Gospel. He has more experience than anyone on this forum, and has turned out countless guitars which would make your jaws drop. If he tells you soft maple is the way to go, then soft maple is the way to go. Wes, with all due respect, soft maple is significantly harder than mahogany, which is one of the most widely used neck materials. Maybe it isn't used by Fender et al for one piece necks, but in a lamination with ebony and purpleheart... come on! I'm also sure that what Bill meant was that using rock maple will make your life harder than it needs to be, since there is no need for the extra hardness of sugar/rock maple in your specific situation. I don't think he was saying that hard maple is unworkably hard - he uses it in his archtop necks, so he works with it a lot. Anyone who has any doubts about the position of authority that Bill Moll speaks from might want to check out his work: http://www.mollinst.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertonessuckbutigotone Posted January 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) My plan for the ebony and purple heart, is about half an inch of maple on both sides and semi-thin bony strips, then about 3/4" of purple heart in the middle, this all varying on this thickness of the neck. Right now this is just a rough estimate. The main reason I think Bill might have suggested to me soft maple is because he knows this is my first from scratch build and the soft will be a lot easier to work with for me. And he wasn't saying that hard maple was UNworkable, only very hard to work with. Thanks for everyone's input. And yes, Bill is a master builder. I got to job shadow him. It was a great experience. Edited January 22, 2005 by silvertonessuckbutigotone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Wes, with all due respect, soft maple is significantly harder than mahogany, which is one of the most widely used neck materials. Maybe it isn't used by Fender et al for one piece necks, but in a lamination with ebony and purpleheart... come on! no problem.we are all here to learn,right? but i still question the choice of soft maple in a neck for tonal reasons... and i do remember a member of this forum who bought a curly maple neck blank which was too soft and unsuitable for the fender neck he was building. but since i have seen hard and soft maple side by side and i know them to cost the same money(at least where i buy wood),it is still illogical to me to suggest that the minor workability difference between the two is in any way a factor when the neck already has ebony and purpleheart in it...even hard maple is easier to work than those. and yes i have seen his site.i looked it up before i made my first reply.they are very nice looking guitars.but luthiers are just people too. my point is...why reccomend soft over hard maple in this case?my carved top is a soft maple body with a mahogany top.believe me,there is not much difference at all in the workability of that wood anyway...at this point i accept no ones word as gospel.and i seem to remember you questioning neal moser's method of building a neck thru,so with all due respect,i know you do not either...eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 *Anything* Bill tells you can be taken as Gospel. He has more experience than anyone on this forum, and has turned out countless guitars which would make your jaws drop. If he tells you soft maple is the way to go, then soft maple is the way to go. I definately have to disagree here!!!! EVERY professional guitar company on earth builds their maple necks from hard maple. Except for custom builders there are no exceptions I know of. Most books on guitar building recommend to use hard maple. I myself buy from the owner of the company supplying Peavey, Fender, etc. with neck woods. This supplier sold all neck blanks for the Peavey Wolfgang Series. I asked that guy exactly this question and he told me not to use soft maple because of several reasons: 1. It is not stable enough for a neck if not quatersawn or laminated with stronger woods and tends to warp 2. It gives you a neck that is very easy to bend 3. A soft maple neck gives the guitar a quite mellow and dull sound (this may be desired in some scenarios) I myself choose to build the neck for my 7-string from quatersawn soft maple laminated with bubinga anyway, because I wanted the curly figure. While the neck is stable enough due to the laminates and the soft maple being quatersawn it sounds way to mellow for my taste. I will build a new one from hard maple. So the bottom line in my opinion is: You definately can build necks out of soft maple, but it is only suitable for a certain sound and certain construction techniques which make up for the soft maple's weakness. Describing soft maple as the way to go when 98% of all guitar necks are made from hard maple with good reason is quite ridiculous.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Context people..... context!!!! The guy's question was about the wood to use in his specific situation, and Mr. Moll's and my answers were tailored accordingly. He's using it to add .5 inch of thickness each side of a neck made with laminations of ebony and purple heart.... he could use over-ripe Brie and it would be hard enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Okay....in a lamination you can use them. But the resulting sound still depends on the thickness of the maple stripes in the lamination. If they make up the majority of the neck wood they can rob you of the highs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrum4food Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Context people..... context!!!! The guy's question was about the wood to use in his specific situation, and Mr. Moll's and my answers were tailored accordingly. He's using it to add .5 inch of thickness each side of a neck made with laminations of ebony and purple heart.... he could use over-ripe Brie and it would be hard enough! ← [/quo hee hee hee. Sure id be hard enough to drive nails. Application gents. Mr Moll is using soft maple on his guitars for soft tones, jazz tones, dark rich tones and I'm sure - exquisit tones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertonessuckbutigotone Posted January 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Actually Bill doesn't use soft maple on his necks, he uses hard maple. I think the reason he suggested to me to use soft is because I was using ebony and purpleheart which would accumulate to be a very bright dense tone and to balance that out I would use soft maple. The strength of it wouldn't be an issue also due to the purpleheart and ebony. I think I'll be fine as long as I have nice pickups and an appropriate body wood. Thanks for the comments guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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