TheoLogic Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 First, the book came yesterday! Yes!!! Now the question. I finished laminating the neck yesterday and despite the fact that I planed the wood then spent hours sanding it I am seeing tiny gaps in spots between the pieces of wood. Is this a huge problem, or can I fill the gaps with CA or a mixture of glue and saw dust? Will this be strong enough to support 6 strings or should I start over with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Well, ideally there should be no gaps, but if you are to the point where sanding/planing more is going to make it too small, try this: clamp it up as if you were going to glue it, but don't glue it. If the gaps close up with minimal clamping ( finger tight with just a few clamps ) you should be ok. Attempting to fill the gaps, especially with the sawdust, will likely make things worse. If there are still tiny gaps, the glue will fill them as you clamp it. you may see a glue line, but this happens. Chalk it up to experience, you'll get the hang of it. Good luck, George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassman Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 As long as the spaces between the laminates are minimal there should be no real problems- sanding them before you glued them up could easily have caused this to happen. When you plane the piece make sure that each time you send them through the planer there is no debis stukc on the underside of the lumber of on the infeed table- this will lead to thinner spots on your lum ber and thus gaps in the glue lines. These gaps at best, are not very deep- if so like I said then it might be OK. But gaps between lumber would really bothers me- I would scrap them but you might be able to get away with with. I just laminated a couple of birdseye/bubinga neck last night- birdseye is a real pain to surface properly- but it can be done it go surface in he smallest incremtns your tools will allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Did you plane the faces and THEN sand them? If so, that is your problem. It is hard to keep a surface flat when sanding especially when it is long. The more you sand the less flat it is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 there should be NO gaps whatsoever. i have a feeling you didn't get proper glue coverage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Well, I must have some gaps in my brain, because I totally missed the fact that it was already glued together. ( It was way back in the first sentence of the original post- can't expect me to remember that far back. ) In that case, I agree that it may be a little too fubar, especially if the gaps run all te way thru. Don't scrap it, though. I'd say keep at it, and if you still don't like it, build another. Then at least it served as a practice piece, and the next one will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Two ideas: If the gaps are small and you can't see through them, fill them with epoxy and keep going. If the gaps are more severe, just rip it down the glue lines, replane everything, add another pair of laminates to make up the width difference, then try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 I agree with Wes, it sounds like you didn't get good glue coverage. I used to have that problem, cause I didn't want to use too much glue. Glue is cheap, and if you get the piece clamped right, the excess will ooze out the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannoG Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Did you have enough clamps to apply pressure all along the seams? And/or cauls to spread the clamping pressure? Just wanted to bring this up in case you try again with the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badams Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Man dont worry about it. Push some glue into the cracks then sand it while the glue is good and wet still to fill them. Be extra careful to get any glue off the face of the wood before you start your finishing or it will show big time Glue is so strong that if you put your neck under enough tension to snap the wood would give way before the glue. The neck should be fine just give it a little more attention next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Glue is so strong that if you put your neck under enough tension to snap the wood would give way before the glue. no,the BOND created by wood glue is stronger than the wood,but alphetic resin glue itself is very weak.if you have a poor joint,it greatly weakens the join.and that is the glue you should be using on a neck. but erik has the best ideas,imo...i think you should cut it apart and start over.this time use a stiff block of wood on either side of the neck to clamp to,and make sure you get good glue coverage,and you will be amazed at how tight the fit is(if the surfaces are properly prepped) laminated necks are easy,when you get it down...i have to say i haven't had a seam problem yet...i just use alot of clamps and extra wood for blocking to apply the clamp pressure more evenly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Why do newbs with no idea try to help out??? START THE NECK AGAIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 I like to use a pair of long aluminum angle irons as my clamping cauls, they're straight as an arrow, 2" on a side. Home Depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 "Why do newbs with no idea try to help out??? START THE NECK AGAIN" Harsh. But I agree. If you are only at the laminating stage I think your time is worth much more than the wood that you will have to replace. Also you may never be happy with the product and it will haunt you. Did you do a dry fit before you tried to apply glue? It may seem like a waste of time but it sure can pay off. Peace, and best of luck to ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 "Why do newbs with no idea try to help out??? START THE NECK AGAIN" Harsh. But I agree. If you are only at the laminating stage I think your time is worth much more than the wood that you will have to replace. Also you may never be happy with the product and it will haunt you. Did you do a dry fit before you tried to apply glue? It may seem like a waste of time but it sure can pay off. Peace, and best of luck to ya! ← well you don't have to replace the wood.just rip it down the glue lines and replane it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 badams...your nonsense was deleted.rhoads broke no rules with his posting,but you broke several. i have copied your trash into the moderators section so a decision can be made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I agree completly. If the dry fit isn't butt tight than you need to re-joint your boards. Glue is not filler. Sawdust in glue is a bad idea. It will guarantee a failure. You should only use about ten square pounds of pressure with your clamps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 badams...your nonsense was deleted.rhoads broke no rules with his posting,but you broke several. i have copied your trash into the moderators section so a decision can be made ← Ive said it before, i'll say it again..... WE NEED AN "OUTRAGED N00BIE" TITLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 what gets me is how some guys reccomend this shoddy work...as if a poor laminate is just fine and dandy. i thought the idea of building a guitar was to make one better than what you could buy reasonably...but i guess not. i mean really...you can buy a low end esp or ibanez for about $200 that will have poor fits and such,if that is all you are going to go for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Even a $200 Ibenhad has perfect glue joins though Wes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 my $150 Washburn has perfect glue joints, the only complaint is the laquer has cracked in a spot (right by neck pocket, like on some ibanezs) Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 All guitars do that dude. Well, probably 20% of new guitars with a bolt on neck. Especially on the bass side, treble side isnt so bad, but still does happen. Its all got to do with the thickness of the wood, the sharp internal angle of the neck pocket, and moisture (or lack of actually). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Even a $200 Ibenhad has perfect glue joins though Wes. ← definately true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Badams (Keith Adams, keithadams@socal.rr.com), sending personal degrading insults about me, my country, and the guitars i build to customers specifications, via this message board AND email, will get you no where with me. I have forwarded a complaint to the mods. Hopefully you wont have an account here soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 hey badams...rhoads may have a harsh way of speaking...but he is always right about this kind of thing...and guys like him are necessary to keep guys like you from convincing others that "good enough" is actually good enough. and judging a guitar as garish,when it was made for a customer to be exactly what was asked for,and judging a guy's entire base of work on that one guitar that you don't like,is foolish. and i must say...in your interests you say Builder of fine solid body electric guitars but how can that be...when you suggest to a guy to use a poorly laminated neck,instead of merely ripping it down the glue lines,replaning it,and glueing it back together without gaps. at least rhoads is a consistent perfectionist in his advice.and if you were also a perfectionist,then a guy telling a newb to "leave it be...good enough" would bother you as well. i don't see even a single pro (and there are several on this site) suggesting that gaps are acceptable.i only see newbies suggesting it. sorry if you can't handle a reasonable critique of your advice.but that is the responsibility of everyone here with experience...to make sure as much as possible that the newbs build the best guitars they can. so you need to accept that if you give what someone percieves as bad advice,you WILL be called on it...but you are free to debate it,in a reasonable manner. do you understand human civility?do you understand that disagreements do not automatically stir up empty "i am a badass,i will destroy you" type of threats? that p.m. of yours sounds like it comes from a teenage hot head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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