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Fluke

Should marijuana be legalized/Decriminalized for personal use  

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Right then, I've finished work so it's now offically the weekend :D

I'm going home to educate myself on a big fat bifda and a few cans of beer. I'll set myself an exam on Sunday to smoke no less than 5 joints and drink no less than 5 beers.

I'm expecting a B+ as I'll always manage to smoke the joint down to the bottom, but I always spill beer down my chin (talk about a drink problem) :D

Have a good weekend whatever you're up to.

Kaj :DB)

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You don't need to do somenthing to know anything about it, you just need to educate yourself. 

But, whatever,  :D

Well ya lost me there Maiden. What you just said basically is studies is just as good as doing, and I know you know that's not true. If that were true, Litch would be a great guitar builder! B)

I know of two people on a personal level and have heard of otheres that it's becoming more common people 'self medicating' depression issues with the stuff because the side effects of the perscription drugs caused as much or more harm than good.

I find it kinda funny that it's legal in many locations as perscription pain medication for cancer patients and the like. If I had cancer and was in pain, GIVE ME MORPHINE!

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tonemonkey where do you live again!!!! its almost 4:20.... :D:D

time to lighten up on this one :DB)

everyone has a right to thier opinion, what needs to be discussed is how this impacts society.... does the cost of making it illegal out weigh the costs of it being legal?

thats what people need to think about, we need more of a majority rules society....

example, I live in chicago, traffic here is getting really bad, they need to expand the express ways, but the environmental people are saying that there needs to be less traffic. what to do? build more express ways so that the majority of the people can live comfortably.

The problem is that society has out grown the rules and regulations that are in place. look at how much the internet has changed things??? society needs to adapt to these changes, take LGM's post on copying a guitar....

knowledge is power and for every for legalization study there is another one that says the opposite thing.

I know one thing don't say its bad because someone told you its bad. If you do not have 1st hand experience in things then don't comment. Yes there are 100's of examples of why drugs are bad and good, my grandfather died of cancer, he went from 150 lbs to 80... you think I wanted him to smoke a little so he would eat, and feel less pain?

at the recreational level drugs become very very shaky grounds, but medically come on people....

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I'm still are in the armed forces, busting my ass to defend the freedom a lot of uss take for granted.

I don't know why you will say that it is my lack of education just because the fact is that it is illegal and that a lot of dealers are getting out with just a slap in the hand for selling drugs and are back in the business the very next day. If punishment was harder at least it will make them think about it. If the pot got legalized, they will still people selling it illegaly, just because it will be profitable.

and I think that your Bro should be ashame, not because of that he use to mug you about it, but because he fell for it (smokes), but you know what, is your health, and if you want to do it, go ahead, just make sure that who ever you buy it from, don't kill you, a friend or anybody close to you, because he was going to get caught and decided to out run the cops or any other situation...

The problem with drugs is not only the dealer ofr te user, is all the underground ecology that it involves, so good luck and tchuss.

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I think most people would agree that it is impossible for pot to be legalized in the US. It would be political suicide for any candidate for just about any office to take that stance (certainly for President). It just isn't going to happen. What will happen is the same exact thing that went on with alcohol during prohibition - people will find a way to do what they want.

I really believe that alcohol is a much larger problem than pot. I have had too many altercations with people who have been drinking to think otherwise. Alcohol is seriously dangerous. So what do we see on TV ads - loads of people having fun with their favorite brand of beer and kids diving into empty pools when smoking pot. That kind of propoganda is pure crap and is very disturbing. I don't know if the creators of these anti-pot commercials really believe this stuff or if they have been brain-washed with the rest of the crowd. It makes no sense whatsoever that alcohol is legal and pot is not. I undestand how that came to be here in the US but that doesn't mean it makes any sense.

People who have never tried it do seem to be at a disadvantage in really understanding the difference between the propoganda and the actual effects of the drug. For those who have never tried it and still think that it makes people want to do evil and dangerous things - I am here to tell you it's just not so. On average, the worst thing that happens to a room full of stoned people is they decide to order a pizza or watch cartoons. With alcohol, well, you all probably have your own horror stories. It doesn't get much uglier than a room full of drunks - something dangerous or violent is almost certain to happen.

I wish more people could understand what it's really like and see what's happening with the misinformation campaign currently in full force here in the US.

Sorry if I sound on the offensive here. The false advertising that I see almost everyday on the subject of pot really bothers me. I hate to see people completely misinformed the way they are. It's not so much the marijuana topic but more the government taking advantage of people and assumming that they are gullable to such a degree.

PS - I used to smoke daily during college and some of high school. It's much more rare for me to smoke nowadays but I haven't lost sight of the truth.

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Another day, same old song and dance.

Every single time I see a thread like this, and I have seen dozens over the years, the outcome is -exactly- the same as this one.

Completely meaningless.

Some people who used to get along now have a rift between them for absolutely no good reason.

And a lot of people want to openly admit to their past sins not thinking that every single thing you say or do on an internet forum can be documented and may come back to haunt you one day.

Not a single thing has changed in the public mindset/consensus about the issue at hand.

That's why on some more moderated forums topics like these (hot-button topics) simply aren't allowed, and get deleted immediately if they do show up, NOT because some MOD wants to be a censure-happy geek, but because it's pretty well-known that --nothing good- will come of threads like this, and the people who start threads like this usually know in advance what will come of it, but they do it anyway.

I have seen people get banned from forums for starting threads like this more than once, and I agree with that, because I already know how stupid it is to even bother discussing it on a guitar-oriented forum.

So.....

Someone here please tell me ONE SINGLE POSITIVE THING that has come out of this thread, because I've seen dozens of them before, and they all turn out exactly the same way this one has.

Worthless. Totally and completely worthless. Except to polarize folks who before this thread weren't polarized.

Thanks a lot Fluke, you're a real winner in my book.

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drak, i disagree. I find debates like this to be intellectually sharpening and can open peoples eyes to something they didn't previously understand. It helps people get a feel for the views of others, and even thought they sometimes instigate arguements, i think they still enrich discussion. Isn't it great when you see two people act friendly toward each other while carrying on a civil arguement somewhere else. JMO. Neal

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Herbert-- any relation to Herbert Hoover, who appointed Harry Anslinger, major opponent of marijuana, supporter of the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act, propaganda artiste extraordinaire, and (oh yeah!) lying scumbag?

Curtis-- bagged rolling tobacco is legal, unfiltered cigarettes are legal, and then there's always bongs. :D

Any way you cut it, a pack a day is still worse than a joint a week, filters or no filters.

Pot is not illegal because it is a carcinogen. Nothing should be -illegal- because it is bad for you. The nation has a much bigger obesity problem than it does a marijuana problem, but the government has yet to outlaw Lays, pork rinds, or Twinkies.

If something poses a major societal risk, like heroin or crack cocaine, then that is grounds for keeping it illegal. Marijuana does not pose such a risk. In fact, I would dare say that potato chips and fast food pose a much higher societal risk to our nation than marijuana ever has.

You also work your way into a "slippery slope" logical fallacy-- just because you smoke won't make you play music loud or forget where you put things. Pot may make you forgetful and cause a lack of coordination, but it doesn't make you inconsiderate of others. Besides, an increased risk of noise violations hardly constitutes grounds for the illegality of a substance. Also, if you forget where you put a ticket, then it serves you right to have to pay more. Again, not so great a risk as to constitute legitimate grounds for outlawing marijuana.

On a side note, look into the 1938 marijuana murder trials. Some funny stuff there.

Dude, my best friend smokes dope almost everyday, today he just went out and bought a gino, so i do know that it does change you, he gets violent, and stuff (i wanted to say something else, but i would have got a warning) and, when i do play guitar with him, and he does smoke a few bowls, he DOES crank the amp WAAAY up, almost to a point of blowing the speaker, and he will not listen to anyone when hes stoned

have you ever smoke weed? have you ever had a really good friend, that when you go camping, he thinks its funny to roll a fatty, climb a tree and take a big sh!t on your tent? no, its not funny, its pathetic, and sad, its happened, almost to a point where i dont even hang out with the kid anymore, so dont tell me that its not worse then ciggarettes or anything, and a pack a day is worse then a joint a week filters or no filters, yea, it dont take a god damn rocket scientist to figure that out :DB) i am talking about 2 cigarettes to 2 equal sized joints, which is worse? the joints, no filters, it aint brain surgerory you know

Curtis

P.S. what i did find amusing out of it all today is how he was talking about how he wants to get his PHD, a few minutes later he was asking what a PHD was, lmao... hahaha

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This suggests to me, Curtis, that your friend is an a-hole. I don't blame the drugs for that. I blame your friend for that.

Also, there's no point in comparing 2 joints to two cigarettes. Obviously the unfiltered smoke is worse for you. However, an "average smoker" smokes maybe 2 packs every three days (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt), so that's 26 or so cigarrettes a week. Compared to a joint on Friday and one on Saturday? It doesn't take a rocket scientist. :D

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This suggests to me, Curtis, that your friend is an a-hole. I don't blame the drugs for that. I blame your friend for that.

Also, there's no point in comparing 2 joints to two cigarettes. Obviously the unfiltered smoke is worse for you. However, an "average smoker" smokes maybe 2 packs every three days (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt), so that's 26 or so cigarrettes a week. Compared to a joint on Friday and one on Saturday? It doesn't take a rocket scientist. B)

what about an average smoker to an average pot smoker?? I know this is probaly makin you a little ticked off, but i still believe that someone who regularly smokes cigarettes and pot, the pot is definetly bad for you

ohh and wes, i can blame the pot for him eating all my choclate chip cookies? :D

Curtis

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I don't have anything against dope but if you smoke pot everyday it does change you. Go to a highschool and talk to everyone who smokes pot everyday and you'll notice they're dumber than Ricky from Trailer Park Boys, or they sound very dumb and slow. This of course doesn't effect everyone. It's when people abuse it imo that you get problems, and the abusers therefore end up leading into a gateway. Those who smoke dope at parties, for medical reasons, to relieve themselves from stress from time to time or something along those lines rarely end up goin through the whole gateway crap. I think dope should be used for medicinal purposes only, and I don't mean if you're suffering from chronic arthritis thats when you can only get it, but for all the things it's been proven to help.

just my 2 cents

-Jamie

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what about an average smoker to an average pot smoker?? I know this is probaly makin you a little ticked off, but i still believe that someone who regularly smokes cigarettes and pot, the pot is definetly bad for you

Bad for you, yes. Worse for you? Not necessarily.

I'm not ticked off, per se. It's just that you're using manipulated statistics that only seem to mean something to an uneducated viewer, and I'm gonna call you on it. I, too, can throw pro-pot propaganda at you, but that's not the point. The point is to have a legitimate debate about facts, not fiction.

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tonemonkey where do you live again!!!!  its almost 4:20....  B)  :D

Nah dude, I'm on British time.

and I think that your Bro should be ashame, not because of that he use to mug you about it, but because he fell for it (smokes), but you know what, is your health, and if you want to do it, go ahead, just make sure that who ever you buy it from, don't kill you, a friend or anybody close to you, because he was going to get caught and decided to out run the cops or any other situation

First off - My bro is ashamed of many things (not that he has to be) and I would say that he is much more likable person now that he has the odd bifda.

And as far as my dealer goes, he's a very nice bloke. He only deals as he kind of screwed up his education a long time ago and it's about the only way that he can feed his quite large family (his missus has 3 kids from a different marrage which he took on). It's not really an option for him to get a full time job, his youngest daughter is quite seriously ill. I really can't see him trying to kill someone, infact just because he deals a bit of dope doesn't make him a potential murderer or even a bad person for that matter. Christ, if he was the type of dealer that you seem to have in your head, why the hell would I associate with him or let him near my house? I wouldn't.

As for my weekend exam, I would give myself a C+ because I didn't drink any beer :D ............ We (my fiancee and I) did manage to polish off a few bottles of champagne that were left over from the engagement though :D

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I'm still are in the armed forces, busting my ass to defend the freedom a lot of uss take for granted. 

I don't know why you will say that it is my lack of education just because the fact is that it is illegal and that a lot of dealers are getting out with just a slap in the hand for selling drugs and are back in the business the very next day.  If punishment was harder at least it will make them think about it.  If the pot got legalized, they will still people selling it illegaly, just because it will be profitable. 

and I think that your Bro should be ashame, not because of that he use to mug you about it, but because he fell for it (smokes), but you know what, is your health, and if you want to do it, go ahead, just make sure that who ever you buy it from, don't kill you, a friend or anybody close to you, because he was going to get caught and decided to out run the cops or any other situation...

The problem with drugs is not only the dealer ofr te user, is all the underground ecology that it involves, so good luck and tchuss.

ok I know i'm probably going to shoot against popular opinion on this but I wanted to share with you somthing I encountered in my own services with the armed forces. I was with the Parachute Regiment ( 3 para ) in bosnia. Let me give you all an exaple as to why I'm so against any kind of drug...

The Serbs were well known for the terror tactics they used. we had a case ( and i'll give you the date cos god knows it sticks in my mind 19/04/96 ) and a Serb had decided to get a young kind no more than about what 6 or 7 years old to run towards an anglo / american barracks with god knows how much c4 taped to his chest. We later learned that the kid had been gotten high on weed and told if he didnt get to the bunker within 60 seconds the kid was gonna explode. ( the poor fu**&^er was going to explode anyway for gods sake ). Now think about it your with IFOR (n part of the european rapid reaction force ) as i was and some CHILD is running at you with C4 all over him. you know you either shoot him and save many lives or you dont. The sad thing about this story is my BEST mate was on duty that night. his name was MAT and i know the poor sod didnt have the balls to shoot a kid. Instead he ran towards the kid to try and disarm him. i spent the best part of a full day picking my BEST mates brains up from the sidewalk. So I'm sorry if I dont agree to wahts being said here but I do agree with Maiden.

Frankly there are many better ways to get yourself off. If your to shallow to need the smoke well poor sorry you. of course its down to what you feel you can control and understand, but trust me anyone in any kind of altered mindstate can cause destruction and hurt to many people. That includes Drinking and even regular smokes. Frankly I ask everyone on this forum please do what you do responsibly and dont scar those of us who dont do it. However before you next take the chuff think about yourself and your life and imagine just for one moment what your life would be like if you DID actually cause someone harm. Trust me being on the recieving end... It SUCKS

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why is it that people in other countries can have booze legal, but here in america we have some pomp and circumstance about people turning 21.  if you grow up respecting something then most likely you wont abuse it.  how can you go to war for the USA at 18 but not buy a beer till you are 21?  You think things are messed up here?  come on now, we need another revolution!

Actually you can fight at 17. I agree with you here. Why do we have kids dying for "the cause" (not a political stab) who cant even vote, and my ass can smoke ciggies, and drink to my hearts content? I'm 22, and for health reasons I cant join the military, not that I would if I could anyhow. Not trying to open a new can of worms now either.

As for weed? I guess I'm more responsible than most. I dont smoke often, and I wont drive afterwards. I actually walked 2 miles home one day because I was stoned. Most ppl would just drive. Weed is like alcohol to me....fine in moderation and used responsibly. The extemes pointed out were not responsible use, and one was just plain screwed up, and I'm sorry to hear that. I dont blaim the weed, I blame the mofo who got the kid high and taped C4 to him. He could have used alcohol too. I have no problems with weed, not because I smoke occasionally, but I do have a problem with irresponsibility with it. I have a huge proplem with meth tho.......

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OK then folks, after reading my posts from a bit more of a neutral standpoint I feel that some might get the wrong impression so I would just like to say the following.

I am in no way promoting or recommending that anyone smoke, personally I couldn't give a toss what you want to do. If you want to smoke then educate yourself and do what you want. It is certainly no ones business saying that you can't. (But do me a favour, if you do start smoking, lay of the tobacco, it's lethal and will get you hooked even if you think it won't - just like me and the missus)

I would also like to agree and disagree with Draks post. This topic could have gone one of two ways and I think that it's fallen on the reasonable debate side (which is lucky because all hell could have broken loose, which I believe is what Drak didn't want to happen).

Finally......Eddie, that's a nasty story but I really don't think that the weed has anything to do with it. It seems as soon as people find out that there is even a weak link with the weed then they automatically think that's to blame. I don't pretend to know the whole story but surely there were other factors like a war for example?, brain washed kids?, occupying forces (and I use that term loosely hopefully not to cause offence)?

Oh, I would also like to add that there are plenty of people that say weed is 100% safe. This is utter bollox, nothing is 100% safe. If you’re a bit prone to being a bit of a nutter (in a head thinks funny things kind of way) then think hard about smoking. Also, like Litchfield says be responsible.

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I would also like to agree and disagree with Draks post. This topic could have gone one of two ways and I think that it's fallen on the reasonable debate side (which is lucky because all hell could have broken loose, which I believe is what Drak didn't want to happen).

drak was correct and still is.everyone reading this topic is judging the posters based on what the poster writes and how it agrees or conflicts with the readers own personal beliefs.

because we all know that opinions are only accepted if they agree with what YOU(the reader) think

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Well yeah, but take Maiden and Eddie, after the last few posts.

I haven't judged them, they're still the same as the were a few days ago, the only difference is that they don't smoke dope. It makes no difference to me, I still like them.

The point that I was trying to make is that this was a (mainly) adult converstation about it. I think that most people here will look past the fact that some of us do something that they don't agree with. Look at Maiden, I posted just after him in a different thread (kind of a congrats on a good scallop) and he replied back, there was no hard feelings or bitchy comments.

I can certainly see yours and Draks point (I always try to see the agruement from all sides - there is inevitably more than 2) and to some, even quite a large extent, you're right but we're all adults here.

Anyway, maybe this is a good time for the thread to die before anyone gets offended or it does have an adverse effect on the good nature of PG. I'm a hippy I don't like conflict :D

Edited by ToneMonkey
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Sorry Eddie, I didnt mean to sound like I missed your point. I agree what happened was wrong. However, that was the most extreme misuse of a substance ever. It was cold, irresponsible, mean, and just plain wrong on so many levels. And honestly, it does grieve me that there are people out there that do that. Same thing with pedos getting kids liquered up so they can have their way with them. That's not the substance's fault, the some sick fxxxer misusing a substance to get what they want. Its the cold reality that the world is not a safe place anymore (nor was it ever) that I dont like. I say we criminalize those assholes, let them burn in hell, and move on as a society.

Edited by litchfield
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Thats cool Litch. Look I agree with Wes its a personal thing and some people have differing attitudes and views. Tonemonkey yes you are right there are always other factors involved again I agree with you. personally I'm just saying look this is my experience and this is my view. I have nothing against those who do smoke dope its a personal choice just like alcohol. i just wouldnt want it to be around me, and I would hate to have my life affected by someone that was high smasing the car into me or my friends or anything else.!

peace all

:D

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