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Hey guys.  I got this same message in a PM from Wes a little while ago.  I'll explain it as best as I can.....

There's really not much we can do.  The messages are in PM's or emails.  Those are both private, and don't affect the rest of the forum. 

If the guy gets saucy and POSTS such things, then....well, you've all seen me in action.  :D

If you see ANY disrespectful posts, PLEASE hit the "Report This Post To Moderator" button in the thread.  It takes 20 seconds to click it, type a one-sentence explaination, and send it off.  We will handle it from there.

And for the uber-sensitive, posts like "You should have used 800 grit instead of 400 grit." are not disrespectful.  That one is a little blunt, but it's HELPFUL.  Learning to distinguish between the two will take you far in life.

On a slightly odd note:  Did anyone else notice that the last two lines of his first PM/email are almost a direct quote from "Grosse Point Blank"?  Kooky.

CHECK THE MODS SECTION, he has played up and made threats in posts, and WES POSTED ABOUT IT IN THE MODS SECTION AND BRIAN AND KEVAN DID NOTHING.

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Did nothing? You're damn right I did nothing.

Look Perry, I'm not gonna babysit your email or hold your hand while you open each message. In fact, I can't. I'm ****way**** over here.

Forget it.

Not gonna happen.

You're a big boy now. You can do it on your own.

Besides, that's not my job. My job is to keep this forum running smoothly.

Yes, I've read all of his posts.

Yes, few are borderline considerate, and most of them are worthless.

Yes, I've seen the guitar in his profile.

Yes, I got the half dozen email forwards from Perry.

No- I will not suspend him until he breaks the rules. To date, he's not broken the rules.

If you don't want PM's from him, use your Control Panel and block him.

If you don't want email from him, use your email controls and block him.

If he dishes out bad advice, correct him (if you so desire).

I've not found ANY threats in ANY of his 11 total posts. If I missed something folks, show me.

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It's kinda tricky to deal with that kinda personality. You are giving them the attension they are looking for by reacting. He is probably trying to provoke a reaction and folks thats what we are giving him. Let him play with himself for a bit then he will get board and move on.

Rhodes, can't you block all e-mails from a specific sender. Most junk mail filter software has that feature. He is just looking to waste your time dude, and that is about the worst he can do.

Too much drama gonna go work on a soundboard, Peace all... Rich

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why should i have to?? He started his ranting on here, got his posts deleted, the mods did nothing, and he started on the emails. This has been going on since JULY 2004, its not just this week.

His posts are downright FALSE AND MISLEADING, and his posts towards me were obscene and uncalled for.

Its problems like this that make PG.com worse everyday... lack of moderator action. But, thats just one guy's (and a heap of PMs in support) opinion...

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Perry- do you not grasp that I have ZERO CONTROL of what's said in emails and PM's? I can't even see those, let alone moderate or delete them. Sorry, but you're on your own there.

You need to distinguish between "post" and "email" and "PM". I can only deal with his POSTS.

As far as the deleted post (singular), I did find it, and Badams will get a warning, and his Warn Level will be increased.

If/when he breaks the rules again, a 2-week suspension will happen IMMEDIATELY. It will be read-only; no posting.

Its problems like this that make PG.com worse everyday... lack of moderator action. But, thats just one guy's (and a heap of PMs in support) opinion...

Indeed it's just one guys opinion. Remember that. Every time you visit.

Look, you guys have to help us with this. It's *YOUR* Forum. There are only a couple of moderators, and over 3000 members. We *try like hell* to get to every thread and every post, but there's just not enough time in the day. That's also why there's the "Report This Post To A Moderator" button. USE IT! PLEASE! This way we find out about this stuff AS IT HAPPENS; not too late after damage has been done.

Good.

Now hurry up and reply so I can delete this whole damn thing.

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Hang on a second... yeah this guy is a complete numpty but how would all of us react to comments like...

Why do newbs with no idea try to help out???

Come on I've seen way too much newb bashing on here recently. just cos some of us ( not particularly me ) have more experience than others does NOT give the person the right to be down right rude. Or for that matter to act in an elitist way. Or indeed generalise about the good number of DECENT new members that join PG. But whats the real point of being so agressive when its just possible the fool may have thought what he was saying may have helped? Frankly any idiot that did follow his advice well more fool to yourself pal. I digress

We are ALL here for ADVICE regardless. If your here simply to throw your weight around and not understand this or be able to accept the fact that yes newbs do try and yes newbs to make mistakes well sorry but what do you seriously expect??? ok the guy was wrong thats obvious but how about showing a little more restraint to another fellow member newb or not. Yes ok the guy turned nuts thats fine and believe me im not defending that. But I've seen comments like..

I've got some newbs to bash and how about later we go beat up some newbs... its pathetic frankly. Grow up and act with a modicum more maturity. All it will serve is to turn those GENUINE people who want to learn and build guitars away, and thats what were all here for yes?

No didnt think so. So next time a "newb" posts something how about pointing him in the right direction rather than being blunt and agressive. PG was formed on these values by Brian. Lets try to not forget that.

Ok good now I fully expect to get slammed for this but yknow what? I'm old enough and mature enough to take it. I said what I think, those who have a problem, fair enough.

Cheers all :D

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LOL, when I deal with difficult people I usually send them over to mimf too! Thats a quick slapdown. Its unfortunate that the person took your reply the wrong way. I guess he thought he was on top of his game and didn't expect his advice to be dismissed so casually. I guess we gotta take the good with the bad. Maybe not alot can be done in this forum, ie. its out of moderator's hands unless it actually happens here, but you could send a complaint to his ISP. I don't care how far away a person is, I take verbal abuse very seriously, especially if there are family members etc. who might be answering the mail.

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Im with Eddie on this topic. Like what this dude was saying to Perry was idiotic as hell it pissed me off, but there are other times where I feel really bad for people. They come here for advice and they just get shot down. Just dont expect people to come on this site/forum with all the of the knowledge in the world. But I do see a lot of bashing for the people who ask repetative questions like scale length and stuff like that, which should be searched...I would love to help out Brian to gather some info up for those FAQ's that arent answered on the main site.

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Im with Eddie on this topic. Like what this dude was saying to Perry was idiotic as hell it pissed me off, but there are other times where I feel really bad for people. They come here for advice and they just get shot down. Just dont expect people to come on this site/forum with all the of the knowledge in the world. But I do see a lot of bashing for the people who ask repetative questions like scale length and stuff like that, which should be searched...I would love to help out Brian to gather some info up for those FAQ's that arent answered on the main site.

Thanks xebryusguitars I apreciate that, another point I'd like to raise is the comment of...

Its problems like this that make PG.com worse everyday... lack of moderator action. But, thats just one guy's (and a heap of PMs in support) opinion...

ok if its such a problem then why still be here? Why not leave? I'm sorry about this because perry I have the utmost respect for you as a builder I truly do but comments like that from such a seasoned member as yourself really dont help anything do they? Kev is right were all old enough to deal with this and although I also wish he had broken the rules enough to be banned he hasent. Thats a fact so lets stop whinging about it and get on. I say this because its getting like the whole changing of the rules stuff again. And lets do a head count of how many members whined then and are still here shall we??????

seriously. :D

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Oh yeah just wanted to add a tiny little point if you dont mind. As he said, I have a ton of respect for you Perry and the work and the advice and your tutorials have save people time, money, and efforts. And thats why when people get bashed by the experts, it affects them the most because the experts are the people that know the best. What I don't understand about calling people noobs and stuff is that people go out of their way just to tell the person they're a newb WITHOUT ever stating the right way of doing things. I never really saw the point to this. I would just like to see some responsibilty because there will be nobody to look up to anymore for advice without fear of getting hurt.

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Sorry, guys, but that won't fly! He didn't come here to learn, he came here and started spouting bad advice, potentially costing other hard-working newbs unnecessary time, money and effort - Perry is not the one making it more difficult for beginners in this situation! I know nobody likes to be spoken to like they're an idiot, but I've never seen anybody get slammed for asking a reasonable question ( and just for the record, "Hey, I'm uncoordinated and have no experience with woodworking, finishing, metal work or electronics - can somebody tell me how to make a Trussart?" is not a reasonable question :D )

If the more experienced builders have to avoid pointing out bad advice to spare the feelings of people who didn't have any business posting in the first place, they won't bother posting at all. As for the FNGs, it's not so much how long you've been here, but how you act and what you advise when you start posting - if you're a know-it-all who gives bad advice, you should be publicly chastised with regularity until you stop, even if you've been here since Day One. I don't see any tendency to attack people for being respectful and intelligent.

Kevan, I understand your reluctance to get everybody riled up after last year's isilliness, but you do have the authority to act if you choose to - ths is Rule 7 form the Forum Rules on the main site:

7. Members found to be logging on to the forum using multiple id's or expressing ill will towards other members or the web site and forum it self (even outside of the forum) can and will be terminated, after all this is a place to share information and learn, not a hang out for immature people to do nothing but rant.

Now, can we get back to whatever we were doing before this distraction showed up? :D

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Sorry, guys, but that won't fly! He didn't come here to learn, he came here and started spouting bad advice, potentially costing other hard-working newbs unnecessary time, money and effort - Perry is not the one making it more difficult for beginners in this situation! I know nobody likes to be spoken to like they're an idiot, but I've never seen anybody get slammed for asking a reasonable question ( and just for the record, "Hey, I'm uncoordinated and have no experience with woodworking, finishing, metal work or electronics - can somebody tell me how to make a Trussart?" is not a reasonable question  B) )

If the more experienced builders have to avoid pointing out bad advice to spare the feelings of people who didn't have any business posting in the first place, they won't bother posting at all. As for the FNGs, it's not so much how long you've been here, but how you act and what you advise when you start posting - if you're a know-it-all who gives bad advice, you should be publicly chastised with regularity until you stop, even if you've been here since Day One. I don't see any tendency to attack people for being respectful and intelligent.

Kevan, I understand your reluctance to get everybody riled up after last year's isilliness, but you do have the authority to act if you choose to - ths is Rule 7 form the Forum Rules on the main site:

7. Members found to be logging on to the forum using multiple id's or expressing ill will towards other members or the web site and forum it self (even outside of the forum) can and will be terminated, after all this is a place to share information and learn, not a hang out for immature people to do nothing but rant.

Now, can we get back to whatever we were doing before this distraction showed up? :D

Lovekraft you have a good point there however is there really any need again for the above post? No. Is perry old enough and mature enough to be able to block these messages from a complete nutter? Yes. Should he have known Better? Yes. And ok I know we all get annoyed with this s**t I do also but there is a way with dealing with it. IF you see someone post complete rubbish on a post then reply in a decent manner explaining why... dont just tell the guy he is an idiot otherwise that is the kind of reactin you can expect.

I understand where you are coming from but seriously all this will achieve is to stoke the flames and I myself would like to think as a member of PG which I am extremely proud of we are better than that. If a noob posts a point which is wrong then whats wrong with being polite and saying ok look I think this what do you think? rather than oh your a T****er. Does that really get anywhere???

As for CerealK Ill tell you now he is one of the best guys I know and Perry frankly you know nothing about him. i'll tell you now he is a model PG member the difference between yourself and him is that he has respect. I'm starting to think you dont and that all your using this forum for is your own ends. Prove me wrong and forget your anger just start doing what as you yourself said was here to do helping newbs not ABUSING THEM!

:D

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Lovekraft you have a good point there however is there really any need again for the above post? No. Is perry old enough and mature enough to be able to block these messages from a complete nutter? Yes. Should he have known Better? Yes. And ok I know we all get annoyed with this s**t I do also but there is a way with dealing with it. IF you see someone post complete rubbish on a post then reply in a decent manner explaining why... dont just tell the guy he is an idiot otherwise that is the kind of reactin you can expect.

I understand where you are coming from but seriously all this will achieve is to stoke the flames and I myself would like to think as a member of PG which I am extremely proud of we are better than that. If a noob posts a point which is wrong then whats wrong with being polite and saying ok look I think this what do you think? rather than oh your a T****er. Does that really get anywhere???

As for CerealK Ill tell you now he is one of the best guys I know and Perry frankly you know nothing about him. i'll tell you now he is a model PG member the difference between yourself and him is that he has respect. I'm starting to think you dont and that all your using this forum for is your own ends. Prove me wrong and forget your anger just start doing what as you yourself said was here to do helping newbs not ABUSING THEM!

:D

eddie, maybe you dont understand. I could care less what cerealk is like as a person, he aint in here doing the mod thing, so get rid of him.

I never called ANYONE a tosser, it is YOU who is blowing this all out of proportion. All i ever said was "Why do newbs with no idea try to help out??? START THE NECK AGAIN."

I DIDNT NEED TO POST A 500 PAGE EXPLAINATION OF HOW TO FIX THE PROBLEM, someone had already done that.

i can deal with his constant email abuse, but i want him banned from PG AS PER THE RULES.

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Lovekraft you have a good point there however is there really any need again for the above post? No. Is perry old enough and mature enough to be able to block these messages from a complete nutter? Yes. Should he have known Better? Yes. And ok I know we all get annoyed with this s**t I do also but there is a way with dealing with it. IF you see someone post complete rubbish on a post then reply in a decent manner explaining why... dont just tell the guy he is an idiot otherwise that is the kind of reactin you can expect.

I understand where you are coming from but seriously all this will achieve is to stoke the flames and I myself would like to think as a member of PG which I am extremely proud of we are better than that. If a noob posts a point which is wrong then whats wrong with being polite and saying ok look I think this what do you think? rather than oh your a T****er. Does that really get anywhere???

As for CerealK Ill tell you now he is one of the best guys I know and Perry frankly you know nothing about him. i'll tell you now he is a model PG member the difference between yourself and him is that he has respect. I'm starting to think you dont and that all your using this forum for is your own ends. Prove me wrong and forget your anger just start doing what as you yourself said was here to do helping newbs not ABUSING THEM!

:D

eddie, maybe you dont understand. I could care less what cerealk is like as a person, he aint in here doing the mod thing, so get rid of him.

I never called ANYONE a tosser, it is YOU who is blowing this all out of proportion. All i ever said was "Why do newbs with no idea try to help out??? START THE NECK AGAIN."

I DIDNT NEED TO POST A 500 PAGE EXPLAINATION OF HOW TO FIX THE PROBLEM, someone had already done that.

i can deal with his constant email abuse, but i want him banned from PG AS PER THE RULES.

ok perry right now all you are seeing is red dude. Take a pill and relax I still think given everything your being emotional rather than reactional. Cerealk is on here a lot more than you think so just take it easy ok. You got stung by a nutcase but then again you have to admit you were harsh to the guy yes? can you admit that? You thin your the only one who puts up with this guy? Or snorky? or camcool? are you the only one who reads the posts? no course not and I thank you for pointing out his mistakes but next time rather than a one liner we can be more constructive? thats all Im sayin

Oh and why should cerealk have to leave cos you think so? He has been a great help to many on here including my bro. cheers

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Eddie, I'm usually polite to everyone I speak with, and I try not to visit my personal difficulties on the unnvolved and/or undeserving, but I absolutely understand and share Perry's frustration with rude, uninformed arrogant people who feel like the guy who yells the loudest has won the debate! If that is the level of discourse you would prefer, then by all means, be polite to those who are talking though their hats so as not to disturb their delicate sensibilities, lest they accuse you of poor workmanship and ovine lust - I personally think they should be publicly ridiculed in order to correct their behavior, but that's just me. Why should anyone be required to be more than vaguely civil when correcting someone who is setting up the very people you seem most concerned about for failure by gving them bad advice with the appearance of authority?

I'm not angry about any of this, and I certainly mean you no personal disrespect, but I can't agree with your assessment. However, since you seem to think that my opinion is responsible for (more) ill will, I'll bid you and this thread adieu, so as to cause no further harm - I do hope everything works out.

Edited by lovekraft
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Eddie, I'm usually polite to everyone I speak with, and I try not to visit my personal difficulties on the unnvolved and/or undeserving, but I absolutely understand and share Perry's frustration with rude, uninformed arrogant people who feel like the guy who yells the loudest has won the debate! If that is the level of discourse you would prefer, then by all means, be polite to those who are talking though their hats so as not to disturb their delicate sensibilities, lest they accuse you of poor workmanship and ovine lust - I personally think they should be publicly ridiculed in order to correct their behavior, but that's just me. Why should anyone be required to be more than vaguely civil when correcting someone who is setting the very people you seem most concerned about for failure by gving them bad advice with the appearance of authority?

I'm not angry about any of this, and I certainly mean you no personal disrespect, but I can't agree with your assessment. However, since you seem to think that my opinion is responsible for (more) ill will, I'll bid you and this thread adieu, so as to cause no further harm - I do hope everything works out.

Lovekraft I aopogise if you think my post in ANY way refered to yourself as it didnt. I have nothing but respect for your opinion same as anyone elses. My point as per my oroginal post is flaming the newbs and triggering those newbs to attack with fragrntly blunt or plain agressive comments which they didnt incite. Yes ok maybe they ARE SILLY and NIEVE but still would you like to be treated like that under any circumstances?

and then further attacking mods of PG with no real ammo. The sad excuse of I dont see you on here does not cut it. We beg to differ but no hard feeling man! :D

BTW perry who opened this thread originally? Me or you? So whos blowing mate? All I"m doing is sticking up for the coutless times you have made reference to your superiority comapred to us lowly members with smart comments or franlky blunt replies my friend. If you would like to see some give me a shout. Oh and I refer you also to a previous posts question you conveniently ignored...

And lets do a head count of how many members whined then and are still here shall we??????

:D

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All i ever said was "Why do newbs with no idea try to help out??? START THE NECK AGAIN."

I DIDNT NEED TO POST A 500 PAGE EXPLAINATION OF HOW TO FIX THE PROBLEM, someone had already done that.

Yes...wes did explain his mistake, than you started this whole problem by bashing him when the mistake was already pointed out.

If anyone thinks everyone in this forum is supposed to be perfect and know everything, than they're looking in the wrong place. Stupid questions are bound to pop up no doubt, but if you adress them differently, these problems wont occur. I just wanna say that these newbies has the UTMOST respect for VIP's because they know what they're doing. And even more respect for someone that owns a guitar company. When getting shot down by someone that you really respect, they will get furious naturally.

I do support this guy getting suspended because what he did was uncalled for and totally out of smite and was truly one of the most immature things ive seen in awhile but also itd be nice to have a better way of telling people that their wrong

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