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i agree wholeheartedly with rhoads and lovekraft on this. i have seen this guy(badams) in action from the time i deleted his first aggressive post and put it in the mod section for perusal.

i am sorry but as i have always understood the rules harrassment through emails and p.ms is not something i would ever imagine would be tolerated by the administration of this site.

if this type of behavior is permitted,then why in the hell am i running around deleting cursing

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Posting on the forum is like finishing a guitar.  The more you polish it, the nicer it looks.

:D

ok well its time for bed. Unlike perth were three hours ahead of you dude so post away and abuse me all you like. cant reply till morning though. Be safe perry and try not to take this personally ok. Its not mean that way. :D

Im not angry, seeing red, or pissed at you personally. Take that as you will.

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Well lets just close this, I just wanna say one last thing though, I think Eddie was talking more about bashing as a whole, not this one specific case.

Lets just forget about this and laugh at bit and at other peoples misfortunes

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/awfulweatherman2.html

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/recordstore.html

SNOW DAY! haha sorry, just found out no school, so i get to have fun now

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I'm not the fastest tool in the box nor the best around here by any stroke of the imagination. Never claimed to be and never will..........

When it comes to taking time away to handle my own business I do it and appoligize for not being around as much as seems to be needed. Seems to me every time I'm gone for any extended period of time somebody gets in a fight with somebody else and of course I walk into the middle of a bar room brawl so to speak.

I will say this, the issue of attacking people via post's was made clear and using the forum to call people rude names is definately not a family atmosphere nor should it be in PM's either now that I am learning about it.

Yes I am the one that edited the Title and sub title of this thread because it was clearly against the rules of name bashing by calling somebody an arsehole (scews my french, we say in the south). I realize by doing very little research into the subject that this was brought on by an attack from somebody that acted on their own as what has been discribed as a forum troll in other cases of the past and that person took it one further step to e-mail me directly with an appoligy.

A few hours later the same person e-mailed me again with no reply from the first e-mail sent to me to call me rude names as well and threaten Ormsby from this day forward to 5 years from now. I have never spoke or met this person to the best of my knowledge so for them to attack me unprevoked speaks volumes about their caracture and I understand the frustration when people here go through dealings such as this.

The member has since been BANNED!

In the future I would appreciate anyone that is threatened via e-mail from this board or through PM or directly via post to get in contact with me either through e-mail direct (skip using my PM) or by calling me directly at my office. Do Not I repeat PLEASE DO NOT let them drag you down to their level by breaking the rules yourself in an attempt to get everyones attention. If you report the problem to a moderator they will take action into their own hands just step back cause it can take some time.

The reason I say it can take some time is the mods will give the member (noob or not) a chance to cool down and explain what is happening and make it right, that is only fair even though they were the one offending somebody in the first place. It has happened in the past and everyone settled down without further incident.

If you see a person giving advice in a thread that you question, then question their advice with the challenge to show you how or why it is better, remember there are well over 1000 ways to paint a guitar, not all of them are meant for you so maybe a new persons method of doing something will make no sence to anybody but themselves.

In the end the reason the forum is here and interactive to begin with is for people to share and learn, form an opinion about how something should be taken care of when it comes to the modification or building of a guitar. The more opinions I feel, the better and slamming or group attacking will only come natural to those more experienced yet less tolerent of others in a forum, and it is harder for some to stay away from the pack then others.

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Ya know, I've been following this thread, and I have to say, although Perry is harsh in what he said, he's correct.

His comment about "why do newbs with no idea try to help out" came when Badams posted AFTER some realisitic advice came out.

I feel the same as Perry, when people just come out and say something stupid and try to give advice that will obviously damage their work, something blunt should be said.

Over on Jemsite I just went off because there was somebody trying to tell another member it was safe to spray VOC's with ONLY a mask. BULLSH*T!!!! If you wanna die you can, so I said something that could be taken as fairly cutting.

As for Badams, I think Brian did the right thing, it was a pure attack in and out of the forum, according to rule #7 he should have been terminated.

Now, I won't agree that it's due to the mods participation or lack of participation that PG is going downhill, but I do see the content lacking a great deal lately and there is getting to be more and more bad advice, I've chosen to stay quiet about it while Perry has voiced it more.

Both Perry and I have started posts regarding this in the past, it just gets old.

Everyone says "just put up a post to helpfully answer the question"

That's all fine and good, but then you get some idiot slamming you like Badams dide, or, simply very few people read your post at all. Not many people read all the posts in a thread, that's why you see the same answer repeated so many times.

What I see is a huge amount of answers that people believe would work good in theory, and maybe they would, but until you've actually done them, and KNOW for fact they work, please don't say it. It seems the overall age of the forum is getting younger and younger, that's cool, new blood, new builders is all good, but it's bringing with it inexperience and poor advice.

Often I see a thread that by the time I see it, there has already been 20 posts of crap put in, I don't bother posting because 21 posts deep, the people who originally posted either won't see it or they've already screwed up their guitars.........

Anyway, enough ranting, this is the longest post on PG I've made in a long time and it's primarily bitching, I don't like doing that, sorry, I don't agree with how Perry handled everything, but I think some bending of the rules was being done a little as rule #7 is pretty crystal clear. Anyway, I'm off, later :D

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Be careful what you wish for guys......

According to Rule #7, Perry would garner a 2-week vacation:

"You are a pathetic, simple minded fool."

"Moderators- do something about this clown."

And then a few direct slams against the Admin here:

"...and Brian and Kevan did nothing."

"Its problems like this that make PG.com worse everyday... lack of moderator action."

"It would be nice if the mods re-familiarized themselves with the RULES they ARE SUPPOSED to enforce here..."

Also, even though it's a quote FROM AN EMAIL, swear words are NOT to be posted (Rule #3). That was made VERY clear in another thread several months ago. Another rule breakage on Perry's part (I edited them out at a members request).

An apology? For what?!!? Doing what I'm supposed to do?

Don't hold your breath.

Ok, are we done here?

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I do want to chime in here and say that I think the Mod's are doing a great job along with the Admins. It's alot of stuff that goes on in a forum of this size and it's really hard to keep track of every thing at all times, I'm sure of that. So first off, just want to take the time to say thanks guys for all you do and yes I'm glad you banned him for PMing people with threats. So, Brian, Kevan, Wes, and all the rest of you guys.. Thanks..

Also, I really think Perry is a great person and probably let his emotions take over and in return, came across as someone who he's not. Like him or not, he is a great builder and a great asset to the Project Guitar community, not only for his building skills, but his passing along that knowledge freely to anyone who needs help. I truely think that he wants to keep the message board as free from all the bad advice as he can. I know that it would really have been bad if I'd have listened to alot of advice I had gotten on this forum when I was first starting off, some of it was extremely bad advice and I ended up making some mistakes from listening to some of the advice, it wasn't until I was versed enough in guitar building that I could detect BS. I don't see how it hurts for Perry to be our BS detective, I really think that it would save alot of new builders problems down the road. I do understand that he probably doesn't word his replies as nicely as he could, but I also don't think he's got an ego problem either, it's just his way of pointing out bad advice. It's simply because he doesn't want people to ruin their projects by taking such bad advice, in my opinion. Sure he's made some mistakes, but haven't we all. Maybe things will settle down now a little and everyone can find a new appreciation for each other.

I also wanted to apologize to Drak, simply because I misread and misunderstood completely what he was saying in his post and I know he supports the Mods and Admin's fully.

Let's all get back to building great guitars now!!

Matt Vinson

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Kev,

You know you're one of my best friends, but I can't just back down on this one, I really can't, I'm not seeing things the same as you. Not questioning you or your authority, I just don't agree that Perry has broken rule #7 as much as you say.

"Pathetic simple minded fool"

Yeah, ok, an insult I agree, but in context it was an opinion stated correctly, the guy was throwing insults around at Perry regarding him, his work, and his country. He was very direct towards Perry, and opinion or not, the attacks by Badams are very simple minded and foolish, they are simply harsh words formed by an uninformed person making statements about Perry, and his work, without ever seeing or knowing either of them.

"Moderator's do something about this clown"

I don't know how this is a violation, he's asking the mod's to do something about a problematic person, Clown being a descriptor but hardly an insult IMO. If he'd said do something about this ******* idiot piece of trailer trash ***wiping loser" then ok, it's an insult.

From dictionary.com

Clown

A coarse, rude, vulgar person; a boor.

Perry's description is not an insult, simply a proper description

As for his comments about moderator action, well, I guess I was surprised that something wasn't done sooner after reading the whole thread itself, I can see it being looked at as an attack, but again, still opinion, he's not coming out and saying "Brian and Kev are idiots who refuse to do anything" maybe it's kind of the same, I dunno, perception mainly.

His last comment about

"It would be nice if the mods re-familiarized themselves with the RULES they ARE SUPPOSED to enforce here..."

Is valid though as it was blatant that rule #7 was broken, you know that Kev. I see a few things that slip by in the rules here, I just don't really give a rats rear end.

The swearing, yeah, I knew that was a rule breaker at the beginning, and if Perry catchs crap for that I understand, and I think he would too.

The bottom line is, we have some very valuable members here, members who are higher profile, who actually do this for a living and are VERY good at what they do. Being a higher profile makes you a target for people like this to attack. It's my opinion that these members who are of higher profile, and experience do deserve a little extra protection. If not, they'll stop coming here. I receive hate mail from this site, I've mentioned it a few times, I just don't give a crap as it's usually one or 2 emails and it ends, in Perry's case it was a run of them.

I don't know if it's jealousy or envy, or just plain stupidity that makes people jump out on others, but it happens, there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that's just not worth dealing with, but I guess should all be brought to the front so everyone knows that this is not an isolated incident.

If you want the pro builders on here, there has to be a reason for them to be here, for guys like Perry and Myself, it's to help the people who really need help, when I get emails saying what a rip off I am, or what crappy guitars I build, and I see it's an email coming from PG, it does make me sit back and say, "I don't need this crap" and consider not posting. If there is a continuous problem, and the emails are coming through the email button at PG, I would certainly expect something to be done ASAP.

I rarely ask questions on here, but I come here to try to answer questions, just like the mod's I'm not PAID to do this, I have no obligation to answer anything, I come here on the little spare time I have to try to provide answers to the people who really want them. Perry is another who does the same, time is limited but we still come on our own free will to try to help out.

I don't think he or I, or anyone else is any better than anyone on here, we all started at the same place, but when a long time member is getting ripped on by some immature little clown (not breaking rule #7) it's going to turn them away.

I know that Perry, Myself, Craig, and a bunch of others don't have the notoriety of somebody like John Suhr, or Dan Erlewine, or those guys, but I can pretty much guarantee that if they showed up here, they'd be treated like celebrity's which is lame considering they're doing the same job that we are, they've just done it longer.

Remember, rock stars or famous guitar builders are no different than us, they just have really cool jobs, there is a member on this site who in his first post was a VIP, simply because of his past experience in the industry, I don't knock that at all, but his work is no better than many people on here, and his experience no greater, but he's revered on here for some strange reason :D

Again, this isn't questioning you Kev, you're a great friend, and I hate this crap all around, but I don't see that Perry was in the wrong here, if anything, I would side with you Kev, you are my friend, Perry is a guy I've spoken with a few times on pm, but I totally respect him for his talents, skills, and his shoot from the hip attitude, hmmmmm, that same attitude is one of the things I respect about you Kev, I just don't quite get this whole post, I don't really see what Perry did that was so wrong according to the rules............

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Not quite, Kevan - that threat towards Perry was both retaliatory and unnecessary, and definitely not up to your usual standard of fairness. Punishing the messenger simply because he's called attention to the results of your inaction is more than a bit unworthy of you. After all that brouhahah last year, I understand that we've prioritized running a clean, civil kid-friendly forum (and I don't think that's a bad thing), but when the administration's inability to act quickly and decisively leads to situations like this, they have to share responsibility for the results. Somebody was notified, as evidenced by the deleted posts - past that point, it was your job (collectively - I'm not singling you out) to take immediate action of some kind, and that action should have eliminated the impetus for this entire thread. Own up, the ball was dropped - Perry may have overreacted, but he's not the only one here who's made a mistake, nor was his the first error in this chain of events.

As always, I mean no personal disrespect - in general, you guys do a superlative job of keeping order in this little asylum, no mean feat in my estimation! And as always, feel free to ignore any or all of what I've said - it's just an opinion... :D

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Ok, I think I get it now.

Wes- no sleep for you, ever again. Got it? Good. You must only visit one site online, and is to be this one. Every 60 seconds, you must click "View New Posts" and search each and every thread for possible signs of infraction. Clear? Ok.

I'm not sure what kind of 'swift and immediate' action you're looking for, but this whole thing has transpired in less than 24 hours. Perry's first post was yesterday afternoon. I know this is incredulous to the rest of the Forum, but the Mods and Admin here actually have LIVES, and stuff to do, other than check on the forum every 5 minutes.

All sarcasm aside, I think this was handled quite quickly.

Action *was* taken: Wes deleted the initial post, then explained what was going on to us in the Mods section. I said to Wes exactly what I said to you guys a few pages back. He understood, and Brian agreed.

THEN......Perry started this thread.

I sent a warning to Badams.

He got all saucy and emailed Brian with some nasty stuff, and got himself banned.

From post deletion to banning, all of that happened in less than 18 hours.

This thread, by the way (as Brian pointed out) was a rule breaker with it's title. It was founded on a rule break by Perry.

That's where the snowball started. Until that time, there was just a "stern" post, and a problem post.

If the way Wes and I handled the situation was incorrect, slacking, or whatever, I'm sorry but you'll need to take that up with Brian.

(Wes- I was just kidding. You can go back to teenageasiancheerleaders.com. ) :-)

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I'm not sure what kind of 'swift and immediate' action you're looking for, but this whole thing has transpired in less than 24 hours.  Perry's first post was yesterday afternoon.  I know this is incredulous to the rest of the Forum, but the Mods and Admin here actually have LIVES, and stuff to do, other than check on the forum every 5 minutes.

All sarcasm aside, I think this was handled quite quickly.

Action *was* taken:  Wes deleted the initial post, then explained what was going on to us in the Mods section.  I said to Wes exactly what I said to you guys a few pages back.  He understood, and Brian agreed. 

THEN......Perry started this thread.

I sent a warning to Badams.

He got all saucy and emailed Brian with some nasty stuff, and got himself banned.

From post deletion to banning, all of that happened in less than 18 hours.

Not to contradict you Kev, but that simply isn't true.

Badams (Keith Adams, keithadams@socal.rr.com), sending personal degrading insults about me, my country, and the guitars i build to customers specifications, via this message board AND email, will get you no where with me. I have forwarded a complaint to the mods. Hopefully you wont have an account here soon.

Note the date. After 20 days of apparent inaction you may have some insight into Perry's agitation, hmm? Not an attack on anyone you understand, just the facts.

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Sorry guys.

I didn't get ANY notification (post alert in the Mods section, PM to me, Report This Post email, or anything else) until yesterday. Wes *did* post in the Mods section on the 8th, but I didn't see it until yesterday. Could be a new software thing; could be a Mac thing....but if I don't see it, how can I address it?

Ahhh...but when I did finally see it....what happened? :D

There were also 20 days where Perry, or any other forum member, could have PM'd or emailed me or Brian. Nothing, from anyone.

Even after we sign on two new Mods, we're STILL going to need the members help with this type of stuff. The board is simply too large for 3 or 4 guys to do it by themselves. It's YOUR forum, and a quick PM or email shouldn't be asking too much.

Thanks.

Sorry this all had to happen, but it did, and now it's over with. I'll await Perry's response, then this thread will be closed, and soon it will be deleted.

Lastly, you guys know that Badams is sitting somewhere touching his naughty place reading this whole thing, right? Don't worry- Brian set him up to not be able to visit the site at all. He can't even read it. At least not from his house. Maybe from the library, or a friends house, but not from where he was.

It's all over.

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Don't worry- Brian set him up to not be able to visit the site at all.  He can't even read it.  At least not from his house.  Maybe from the library, or a friends house, but not from where he was. 

It's all over.

Gotta love IP bans :D

After reading this, ive come to conclude (with my knowledge :D ), that this guy obviously isnt man enough to ever adress this issue, he goes around posting fictional info, which is half true and half right, but maybe more wrong then right :D . There is no use in fighting over whether or not the mods something at the time, even if it was a tad slow, all that matters is hes gone for good now. Dont regret what happened in the past, look foward, El Capitan! B)

EDIT: I cant type for nothin'

Edited by AlGeeEater
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Thank you Brian. You are a gentleman.

Jeremy, and the rest of the crew, thanks.

Kevan, i have no words for you. Feel free to give me the two week ban you so very much want to hand out. It might make you feel better. Then, post a smart alec reply, trying to take the heat off the situation, so we can all end this.

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Kevan, i have no words for you. Feel free to give me the two week ban you so very much want to hand out. It might make you feel better. Then, post a smart alec reply, trying to take the heat off the situation, so we can all end this.

Let's do a quick check here:

Did you get a warning?

Did you get a 2-week suspension?

That's what I thought.

You're welcome.

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hey kevan should we press the report button for small stuff like posting 5 pictues not in a tutorial?

You can post for the person to check the rules regarding picture posting in threads, or you can hit the button. It's entirely up to you. It can be a large infraction or a small infraction, but if you bring it to our attention, it will certainly help. Moderators and Admins *LOVE* emails and PMs from you guys when it's for a reason such as this.

I did find out that there's a software bug that's not allowing me to see new posts in the Mod's section. I've spent the last few hours checking into that. That's not an excuse; it's just an update. I'll get it repaired ASAFP.

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(Wes- I was just kidding. You can go back to teenageasiancheerleaders.com. )

is that a real site?cause don't think i won't go there.

nope, it aint a real site, but if you want some, pm me, LOL

Hey Kev, what bout smilies? whats the limit on them????

Curtis :D

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