drbassman Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I have a 30" scale bass neck with a mild warp. Once I get the warp out, anyone think I should install carbon fiber rods in it (I'm doing a new truss rod anyway) to keep the neck stablized in the future? I was just wondering if anyone has used them on a smaller neck like the 30" scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaga_Mike Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I would say go for it, especially if it is a thin neck. I've been thinking about making a Hofner-esque 30 inch bass next and after reading a lot I've decided that graphite rods are the way to go. What truss rod are you going to use? I haven't done the measurements to see if a 24" hot rod (stewmac) would fit in a 30" scale neck, but that seems too long in my mind. I would guess that you're gonna cut one to length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 (edited) Hey Mike, the actual fretboard on my Fender neck is 21" long, so a rod of 18" or so would probably be best. I'll know more once I yank the old fretboard off. Fender rods typically run from the bottom edge of the heel (where the adjustment screw is, ugh!!!!) to about 1-2" below the nut. A 24" rod would definitely be too long. I also might be able to rehab the old rod once I get my hands on it. A lot to consider as I tackle this one! Edited March 3, 2005 by drbassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I hope some of the big guns jump in on this topic because I am unclear on the concept of carbon stiffeners. I don't grasp the effect they have very well. Also, Warmoth now makes a side-adjust neck that I have used and found to be GREAT! I wonder if this feature could be incorporated in your neck rebuild. The adjuster is right at the cutaway and is a slice of heaven to fine-adjust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I hope some of the big guns jump in on this topic because I am unclear on the concept of carbon stiffeners. ← They simply improve the rigidity of the wood neck, making warping less likely. Lots of basses have them now. It's tempting since I'll have the neck opened up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I am using carbon rods in my tele project that I am working on. They are .24" rods and I routed a 1/4" round bottom channel for them. I covered them with maple fillets glued in with titebond. From what I have seen, some people will say that theyre a great addition to a neck and some will tell you that theyre not really necessary. I figure that if all they give me is a little piece of mind then theyre worth it. Now regarding your situation, why are you going to take off the fretboard to correct a warped neck? I dont see why that would be needed or how it would help. Have you tried adjusting the truss rod? Unless it's broken (t-rod) or somthing I dont see why the fretboard is being removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Now regarding your situation, why are you going to take off the fretboard to correct a warped neck? I dont see why that would be needed or how it would help. Have you tried adjusting the truss rod? Unless it's broken (t-rod) or somthing I dont see why the fretboard is being removed. ← Ithe neck had a really big warp (too much relief). The truss rod is maxed out, can't be tightened any further, even with the neck in a vise to take pressure off of it. The neck was heated and put in a vise, which took about 60% of the bow out. It still has a warp and further heat won't help it. Mostly the heel is flipped upwards a bit, not an uncommon problem with bolt on necks. So, I'm going to remove the fretboard, check out the truss rod and replace, unless I find a fixable issue with the current rod. Essentially, I'm going to lightly plane the face of the neck at the top 2-3 frets and the bottom 4-5 frets. Once I get it flat/levl, I'll install the new board. I was wanting a maple board anyway, so this is a good excuse to do this (besides the warp). Not any other options with this neck, really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Sounds like cutting off a leg to fix a broken toe to me unless I'm missing something. I would personally just refret. You can back your rod way off, relevel your board, refret and be in good shape. I'm assuming if you're confident enough to replace a fretboard I don't need to go into detail on all the steps involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Sounds like cutting off a leg to fix a broken toe to me unless I'm missing something. I would personally just refret. You can back your rod way off, relevel your board, refret and be in good shape. I'm assuming if you're confident enough to replace a fretboard I don't need to go into detail on all the steps involved. ← A Mustang bass neck only has a 1/8" thick fretboard, so there's insufficent rosewood to relevel the board and refret, it's gotta come off the face of the neck or not at all. The truss rod doesn't work either, so I'm curious to dismantle it and see what's going on in there. If it weren't a vintage neck that I liked in the first place (and have a use for), I wouldn't bother. As for being confident, I am, in spite of my ignorance! I've built and repaired basses for my own use for 3 years, so I'm willing to tackle this project since the only costs are the materials and my time. Thanks for the mention of help. If I get stuck I won't hesitate to ask! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Ahhh. I figured you'd already explored your other options, but some people do like to make things harder than they need to be. On the original question, if the c/f rods will make you more comfortable, I say go ahead with it. It'll add stability, but some people don't like the "stiff" feel of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 It's probably worth mentioning that whatever tone you came to know from the neck will be changed by all the major work you're doing. So if I say "graphite rods will change the tone" its somewhat irrelevant, because if you replace the rod and the fretboard, you're basically making a new neck. I can appreciate graphite rods, but in principle I like a neck to be made of wood, and made strong enough that rods are unneccessary. A graphite rod will basically take the natural vibrations of the wood and put them in a headlock. It chokes it off. But I have used graphite in repairs a lot. Especially on old, weak, vintage stuff that is already tender and fragile. I'll use graphite as an insurance policy, as in "fix it once and it's fixed forever" Since you are going to pull the frets anyway, you might consider trying a refret with oversized tangs, to strengthen and backbow the neck. You can read about compression fretting in various Dan Erlewine rants and the like. If it doesn't work for you, you're no worse off besides the cost of the fretwire. You'll just pull the new frets and continue with your fretboard removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I can't believe I didn't think of compression fretting. Probably because I've never used it. I'm not sure how much warp you have, but it could be the solution. There might be a thread over at Dan's section on the LP forum about it. If not, the Guitar Player Repair Guide has a pretty thorough section on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I can't believe I didn't think of compression fretting. Probably because I've never used it. I'm not sure how much warp you have, but it could be the solution. There might be a thread over at Dan's section on the LP forum about it. If not, the Guitar Player Repair Guide has a pretty thorough section on it. ← Well, see there.....it only took a couple minutes and you guys hit me with something I didn't know. So how does compression fretting work??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 OK, you guys got me already! How does compression fretting work? LP forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 If you use a fret tang exactly the same or slightly wider than your slots, the frets (once installed) have the effect of creating a stress that runs counter to the string pull. I've seen this on every new neck I've fretted. Are you going to replace the fretboard? If so, I'd use a thicker one, at least 1/4". If not, you could back up the existing fretboard with another layer (rosewood, ebony, whatever). That will increase the neck stiffness all by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 (edited) Opps, double post! Edited March 4, 2005 by drbassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 (edited) If you use a fret tang exactly the same or slightly wider than your slots, the frets (once installed) have the effect of creating a stress that runs counter to the string pull. I've seen this on every new neck I've fretted. Are you going to replace the fretboard? If so, I'd use a thicker one, at least 1/4". If not, you could back up the existing fretboard with another layer (rosewood, ebony, whatever). That will increase the neck stiffness all by itself. ← I figured that's what you all meant by compression. Might be worth a try. The frets on this neck were probably shot in from the side back in 1975, should I anticipate any problems removing/replacing them? Some folks recommend they be put in the same way when being replaced rather than tapped in like I would do. BTW, LP Forum. That isn't Les Paul is it? I told you I was ignorant about some of this stuff!!! Edited March 4, 2005 by drbassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Yes it's les paul. I think you have to register to get to Dan's section, but it's free to register. http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/index.php?s= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted March 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Thanks Devon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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