Jivin Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I've read a couple of fairly indepth interviews with Dime in magazines where he went into decent detail about how as time has gone on, he has found himself a little unhappy with the sound of the 500XL for some applications, and that was what drove him to start talkng with SD since they had been hounding him for some time. Now not actually owning either myself, I can't comment too much, but I have tried both on a number of occasions, and im getting pretty sick of people just bagging the Dimebucker just because they've heard some know-it-all claim the Dimebucker sucks and the 500XL is the ONLY thing dime EVER uses as if its gospel or something. From what ive read, dime uses the dimebucker in some guitars (and obviously the guitars he uses for photo shoots...), and the 500XL in others (probably most of them). I've seen one or two videos that I cant remember the name of now, where on closeups, it was obvious he was using a dimebucker, and it sounded great, and a few local acts ive seen have used dimebuckers and some of the most awesome, crushing metal live tone that ive heard. Im certainly not pointing fingers at anyone in particular on this forum, im realy just venting. I'm not for or against either of the pickups particularily, im just sick of people around the place in general (music shop guys, other forums ect) bagging the dimebucker for reasons they dont actually know are true, and then spreading the word, creating this army of people who dont really know anythign and haven't actually heard the pickups claiming that one is better than the other the moral? dont take too much notice of any opinion that isnt objective about what they are saying, and just listen to both for yourself (if you have that option). *takes a deep breath* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalo1022 Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 after lookin through my posts i relaised i sounded a little irate adn seemd to bash the dimebucker....ive played a dimebucker adn i ahve an L500 i personally fell the L500 is alot better needless to say the dimebucker is still a great pickup. As far as tone goes well i played it through a Fender Bassman toally clean and wen you roll back the tone all the way it soudns quite nice actually.......i wouldnt exactly say it was twang but the highs are definitely present and the low end is very tight with this pickup so it doenst get very muddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh15 Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 well thanks to all and im pretty set on the l500xl now so i will be giving bill a ring to order it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Jivin - I think you are absolutely correct. People do seem to want to hitch their wagon to a bashing when it seems like the "cool" thing to do. I'm definitely not saying that anyone here is doing that but that is the impression that I get from reading other forums. I also don't really know why it is so important to know which pickup he used at which point in time - it's not like you're going to duplicate his exact sound just by using the same pickup. Just try some pickups and see what you like and what works best with your rig. There should be no shame in using any particular model or brand pickup as long as it sounds good to you. It doesn't matter who made it or how it was made or what it was supposed to be a copy of (if that's even the case here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh15 Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 no im not trying to copy dime at all i just play alot of hard rock /metal stuff and i know that this pickup just screams and i knew it would be perfect for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hey, Jivin', no disrespect, you're entitled to your opinion, but I haven't seen anybody actually badmouthing the Dimebucker. However, that said, it is a mass-produced copy of the hand made 500XL at three times the price - unless it's three times as good, it simply suffers by that comparison. I've owned both, I prefer the original, but even if I liked the Dimebucker better, should I spend enough to buy two more pickups for any small tonal advantages that the Dimebucker might have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh15 Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 this l500xl is a high output pick up so lets say my amps volume is on 5 just to make things easy and im playing the neck pickup and then i switch to the l500xl in the bridge for a solo, is it gonna sound way louder than the neck pickup? i dont want to overpower it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Hey, Jivin', no disrespect, you're entitled to your opinion, but I haven't seen anybody actually badmouthing the Dimebucker. However, that said, it is a mass-produced copy of the hand made 500XL at three times the price - unless it's three times as good, it simply suffers by that comparison. I've owned both, I prefer the original, but even if I liked the Dimebucker better, should I spend enough to buy two more pickups for any small tonal advantages that the Dimebucker might have? ← Hey Lovekraft - Don't worry, no disrespect taken, im sure we can all discuss this sort of thing maturely. Firstly, from what i've seen, the Dimebucker is about $90+P&H and the L500XL is $50+P&H, so its not quite 3x as much I suppose your right - if your going to look at it very closely, a large number of people arent necessarily bagging the Dimebucker, and I suppose I will have to admit they are more talking up the L500XL than bagging the dimebucker (if that made any sense ), but I think my point still stands. On forums and around my local area, it seems almost every time the Dimebucker comes into conversation, there always seems to be at -least- one bloke who has to chime in with "duhh dime never used the SEYMORE (sheesh) pickup, its just a crap copy of the one he really used, which was like a Bill Lorrence or something". And most of the time that person doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, and is just regurgitating 2nd,3rd,4th et al hand information. Maybe I just notice it more than other people, or maybe im just hearing things, but it just irks me Cheers, - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dangerouso Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I have no experience with the BL, but I put a Dime in a guitar with an Alnico II Pro in the neck (it was my Slash/Dime guitar). The Alnico is pretty low output, but it was okay with the Dime. The drop in level was noticable when switching, but not to the point anyone would have put it down to anything other than changing from bridge to neck. Also, hate to say it, but automated production does not = lower quality. In fact, any Six Sigma Black Belt will tell you that any process with heavy human involvement will not surpass 4.5 sigma or so. You MUST automate to approach 6. It's simple: people make more mistakes than machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User01 Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 i dunno if this has already been sed, but here goes wake up! dime DID use BL L500xl pickups... he used it for years and years, if you dont believe me, ask on sum pantera board or sum metal bored, they will tell you that what i have sed is correct and that the L500xl pickups kick the **** outta a dimebucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Also, hate to say it, but automated production does not = lower quality. In fact, any Six Sigma Black Belt will tell you that any process with heavy human involvement will not surpass 4.5 sigma or so. You MUST automate to approach 6. It's simple: people make more mistakes than machines. Sorry, but that's just not entirely correct. Especially in the field of manufacturing custom guitar pickups. For all intents and purposes, neither the Dimebucker or the L500XL are really hand-made. Both are made using machine winders with humans at the controls. What you'll find that's different is the attention to defining, measuring, analyzing, designing, and verifying that Bill Lawrence puts into his manufacturing operation versus what Seymour Duncan puts into his operations. I'd be willing to bet with the insane focus Bill puts into eliminating "eddy currents" in the design and the individual testing of each pickup, BL is probably much closer to the Six Sigma goals than SD can possibly be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dangerouso Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Look, I know nothing about how BL or SD has their production set up. I was simply attacking the notion that handcrafted inherently means higher quality. Not always true. I am willing to admit that a CNC machine can cut more accurately and faster than I ever could with fewer mistakes! Just a clarification as to how I was measuring the sigma level. I was refering to sigma levels coming out of production, not as reach the final customer. Sure enough, you can put out a much higher sigma level to your customer by inspecting quality in after production, but in the long run it is much more costly to your company than simply building quality into your manufacturing/production process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I agree with Dangerouso in that there does seem to be a misconception that a small business always produces better products than a large company. I've seen too many comments from people over the years that leads me to believe that some people blindly follow that track. From what I have read about the BL pickups, I'd expect that they do actually pay close attention to details and produce great products - I just don't agree with the attitude that some people have towards the larger companies. Maybe what bugs me the most here is that the Dimebucker is viewed as a copy of the BL 500. I don't see it that way (and maybe that's where I'm wrong here) - it's a pickup that Dime endorsed made by SD. If it were meant to be a "copy", and SD priced it so far above the original - what sense would that make? I have a feeling that it is not meant to be a direct copy/replacement but just another pickup that Dime liked to use. I have no doubt that it probably was based on the BL pickup but I don't know if it's really meant to be SD's best shot at re-creating it Am I wrong? Shouldn't you be buying what you think sounds best? If you can afford it, what's the problem in buying a pickup that you think sounds great at 3 or 4 times the price of another? The more I think about it, the more the whole debate seems pointless. Maybe the loyal BL fans are just using the Dimebucker as a way to feel good about BL by putting down SD? Who knows, who cares? Man, I'm in a crappy mood today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Lord, this has gotten silly! I particularly liked the 6 Sigma discussion. That explains why PRS quality has skyrocketed since automation! As for small business being synonymous with higher quality than mass production, it's really ironic to have to defend that idea on a forum dedicated to craftsmanship, and I won't bother trying. There's nothing wrong with the Dimebucker - it's a good pickup for Metal, and it's obvious that Darrell used it at least on occasion, since it would have been a condition of his endorsement contract. Whether or not it's better than a 500XL will depend on your rig and your ears. As for it being a copy of the 500XL, look at it - it's pretty obvious that SD at least tried to cop the look of Dime's classic 500XLs for his signature pickup, and the sound isn't that much different either, so I'd have to call it a copy, just like the Seth Lover is a copy of the original PAF. Big deal! Listen to both and buy the one you think sounds better - it really doesn't matter what anybody else thinks! I don't see how you can go wrong either way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 (edited) It's about to get worse... <sarcasm> Are you kidding me?! The Dimebucker is PURE CRAP!!! Sure, I don't own it and I've never installed one, but I can tell you it's NOTHING like the XL500--The REAL Dimebag Darrell pickup!! Even the L500XL being made by Willi Stitch, formerly known professionally as Bill Lawrence, is nothing compared to the Real Dimebag Darrell pickup--the XL500 made by the REAL Bill Lawrence company owned by Jzchak Wajcman!! </sarcasm> If you've never heard of the Lawrence v. Wajcman soap opera, check out the stories on both www.billlawrence.com and www.billlawrenceusa.com. It'll make this thread look like an episode of SpongeBob. BTW, Bill and Becky Lawrence are the good guys...Wajcman is a wanker. Edited March 11, 2005 by crafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 i dunno if this has already been sed, but here goes wake up! dime DID use BL L500xl pickups... he used it for years and years, if you dont believe me, ask on sum pantera board or sum metal bored, they will tell you that what i have sed is correct and that the L500xl pickups kick the **** outta a dimebucker. ← Ok really, you should have at least quickly browsed this thread before posting that. No-one in this thread has said that Dime didn't use the L500XL. I even acknowledged that he probably used it the majority of the time. Regardless of their stance on the subject, pretty well everyone on this forum knows that he used the L500XL. Forget it anyway... I've made my point, I don't any need to have to repeat myself. And for the record after having a quick look at a couple of pantera message boards, I've decided I think I know where a lot of the "I have nfi 500xl" sheep have come from. And just before I finish, I should just make it clear, if you've played both and prefer the L500XL (or the Dimebucker for that matter), then thats all good, I can respect that, i'm not bagging either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I wasn't going to post since I haven't had a BL or will ever if I have to wait to get it, I rather pay a bit more and get one right away. But to say that DIme didn't used the SD is BS. He did and as far as I can remember had since the SD took over with the Dimebucker. I have a few of the last pics that were on the net right after he died, with the new (or at least back) Dean guitars and all the pics that were close enough to see, had the SD Dimebucker on it. And to make sure I just put the Guitar World CD-Rom from March 2005, the one that has the Dime Tribute, were he is ripping the heck out of a Dean Urban CAmmo and it has a Dimebucker on it. And this is the guitar that Dime brought up to the Krank factory!!! Do you think he would have brought it there to test his amps if he didn't like the sound? As far as to know which is better, do what was said before, get both and try them and draw your own conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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