mushy the shroom Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Hey I'm considering having a glass/metal fretboard CNC machined, and I was wondering how glass would work as frets (some of the frets.. sort of a "continuing" inlay). How fast would it wear down compared to stainless steel frets or nickel-silver? Does it have a high probability of shattering? Does it provide a drastically different tone from metal? Is it hard to machine? Thanks to anyone who knows the answers to any of these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 wow.. talk about bright.. if you want bright and glassy.. that would do it. I know nothing about the structural properties of glass. run of the mill glass probably wouldn't holdup very well but there are all kinds of industrial glass products that are bery hard to break. As far as tone.. if you've ever played any slide.. people either play with metal slides or glass slides for the "bottle slide" sound.. No other way to describe it but glassy.. shimmery.. kind of crisp and on the surface.. The metal slides dig in and really let a more uncolored tone come across.. I would imagine it to be similar with glass frets.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Window glass and stainless steel are about the same on the hardness scale. I'm not sure where tempered safety glass or pyrex fall in (which are what'd really be pretty much your best options), but they can't be that much higher. I've never used glass in frets and don't know anyone who has, but I imagine you'd have a pretty hard time shattering tempered safety glass frets (can't promise anything). I doubt it would have a lot of impact on sound, but glass is much stiffer than metal, so if it did anything it would make things brighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester700 Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Even harder than stainless would be some types of high carbon tool steel or ceramic. But these would be even harder to shape into frets, and in the case of ceramic, probably too brittle anyway. I'm happy with my stainless frets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Can you machine glass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) First double post - score! Edited March 8, 2005 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Can you machine glass? ← I don't think you can machine it with a mill but it can be ground into shapes (that's how lenses are made - a very, very fancy grinding wheel). If you were going to do it, you wouldn't be able to have fret tangs (too brittle if its that narrow) and your biggest problem would be holding the glass down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushy the shroom Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hey thank you all for your replies. That helped clear that up. I still have the issue of machining glass, which will be large inlays spanning several frets, inlayed on a fretboard of metal. The glass needs to be transparent (for LED's), so that the inlays light up... I think that if I CNC mill the metal and glass parts seperatly, it'd work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hey thank you all for your replies. That helped clear that up. I still have the issue of machining glass, which will be large inlays spanning several frets, inlayed on a fretboard of metal. The glass needs to be transparent (for LED's), so that the inlays light up... I think that if I CNC mill the metal and glass parts seperatly, it'd work out. ← Have you ever machined glass before? I'm not sure how well a CNC mill will work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkchoglit Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 this thread reminded me of an article i read about this guy named ned evett, he plays fretless guitars that have glass fret boards . here is a link to a page wheres you can see some of his gitars, i think they are all (besides the dobro) fernandes guitars that he customized ned evett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) I think it would be cool, just dont drop it on the c-ment Edited March 8, 2005 by AlGeeEater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unusual71 Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Well im sort of a machinist, and yeah, anything can be machined on a mill, it doesnt even have to be CNC. I would definitly recomend a small carbide tip end mill running really high speed with LOTS of coolant for cutting glass, and move across the piece stupidly slow, who cares if it'll take an hour, it'll be worth not messing it up. When your done you NEED to post a picture, im dieing to see how this is going to turn out its brilliant. As for attaching the frets, you can't have tangs because the metal wont give, so an epoxy is probably your best bet, that, or machine the fretslots with a dovetail slot, or T slot, so that it slides in from one end, then glue it to keep it from ratteling. this way it can't get pulled up, and if you want it would look good to put some sort of metal purfling on the ends to make sure those glass beauties NEVER come out, Good Luck man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 You'd have to machine each piece with the EXACT radius of the board (even crazier if it's compound) to get them to seat without breaking. Have you thought of using acrylic instead? It would be MUCH easier to work with, and it polishes up to look like glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Sorry to rain on ya'lls parade but there is no way that I want to be bending steel strings on glass and then sliding my little fingers rapidly back and forth. Just becuase we can do something and it looks neat does't make it a good idea. All it takes is one small chip and you're in for an extended period of not playing. It is also a pain to have to get the blood cleaned up using only your picking hand "cause you've got the other one wrapped up. Fretboards and necks flex. Glass doesn't particularly like to do this. Get a chip in an amorphous solid like glass, even a non-visible eensy tiny one, flex the board and you've got a self surgery kit. This just sounds like a recipe for disaster. I like the plexiglass idea a lot better even if the stuff does scuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Just saw a mention of Ned Evett up there...He is an awesome player, I saw him live supporting Joe Satriani and he was great - maybe even better than Jon IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Best bet for glass is to grind it with silicon carbide grits; you can work down in grit size and buff it smooth just like nitro or poly, but you have to use many more grit steps and go very fine in the final stages (like 6 or 3 micron). But...I gotta think that the strings will scratch up the glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) ya wouldn't the strings scratch up the glass prety bad? Edited March 8, 2005 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I wouldn't want to be anywhere around someone cutting glass in a milling machine. Way to brittle. And to echo what someone said above, with the flex of a guitar neck, glass would be a very poor choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Again, please remind me what the advantage is if glass actually worked? I think you'd be better off changing your tone with wood, pickup, electronics, bridge, and nut selection myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushy the shroom Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Yeah, I'm not actually trying to change my guitar tone, just trying to find a translucent alternative to acrylic that I can use for frets... the frets arent going to be inserted into the fretboard, rather machined out of a billet of glass that follows an inlay pattern that corresponds to a metal fretboard machined the same way. I guess that if it breaks I'm outta luck, but I can make the whole setup easy to replace, so I could just machine more glass. As for bending, I'm considering using a non-adjustable truss rod that works in conjunction with the metal fretboard and neck joint so that the whole neck remains rigid.. a little inconvienent, but if it doesn't bend there's no need for an adjustable truss rod, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I would use quite a bit of cf in the neck so it doesn't get too neck heavy. You're still going to have flex. Definitely use some sort of safety glass if you try this. Like Doc said, the tiniest little chip could have its way with a couple of your fingers so quickly you wouldn't notice until you saw blood running down your guitar. I'm not saying it can't be machined, but I wouldn't go anywhere near the machine while it's running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) Interesting concept but I have my reservations as well. As mentioned, a fretboard as brittle as glass could have difficulties when conforming to a flexing wood base. But I can't say if the amount a neck will flex is beyond the stress limits of the glass. Glass WILL flex a little bit. Although glass has a "hardness" value of steel they share no other properties. When I quotate "hardness" I am referring to the hardness in relation to resistance to plastic deformation, indentation and abrasion. But when a load is applied glass has a MUCH lower failure point ie. more brittle than steel. So if you plan to install glass frets even the smallest gap under a fret is a prime target for cracking when string pressure is applied. Edited March 8, 2005 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unusual71 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Glass is very strong and with carbon fiber rods to lighten it up, it would probably NEVER flex or warp. Wood does this because of moisture, temperature, et cetera, and glass wouldnt have that problem. You would probably make it correctly so that nothing would chip, but you can't be certain. Glass is increadibly strong remember, but I would be crying in fear the first time I (or my human guinie pig) stringed that sucker up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I'm guessing your not gonna be hammering in the frets on this one right.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Moisture and temperature are the absolute least of your worries. Ever heard of string tension? If all we had to worry about was warpage, necks probably would've evolved to something a lot different than they are now. He's also not talking about making the whole fretboard out of glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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