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Hey Kevan...do You Give Everyone Such A...


Guest Filthy McNastie

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Don't Feed the Trolls.

Here's a bright idea. If he wants to keep creating new accounts and flooding the board with his vitriol, simply stop responding. Wasting time by feeding a troll is a sure way to kill a board by keeping us from focusing on the real purpose here--building and modding our guitars.

Filthie--great name BTW, dork--anyway, I'm only going to say this once. Stop posting here. Your attitude and presence are not welcome here anymore. If either of those change, fine, re-register under a completely different name and you'll be welcome back. Otherwise, don't expect anyone but the new people who don't remember you to reply to any more of your posts. If things change, great, but the regulars here have a long memory and I don't think you'll be getting much help from them anymore.

Call me out if you want with Filthie #3 or whatever, but I'm through wasting my time with you. I hope everyone else is, too.

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You know what, i can barely count all the rules broken buy this dude. Hey jerk, check this site out :

http://projectguitar.com/menu/forum.htm

Please, read them, then post.

1. This is a family friendly forum open to the general public, as such you should take into consideration that the opinions, questions and follow up answers expressed in the forum may not be accurate.

2. The Moderator's donate their time and efforts (for free) to make sure that all rule's of the forum are enforced. They have the last word if an issue should arise and the full backing and support of the Forum Administrator. Should you see an infraction of the rules please contact a Moderator or the Site Admin. immediately.

3. There is be no flaming, derogatory remarks, use of continuous fowl or explicit language (The Old Golden rule applies, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all)

Wow, you broke the first three rules, in a row :D:D

7. Members found to be logging on to the forum using multiple id's or expressing ill will towards other members or the web site and forum it self (even outside of the forum) can and will be terminated, after all this is a place to share information and learn, not a hang out for immature people to do nothing but rant.

I asked a guitar related question...I got the hammer dropped on me because I didn't follow a rule that's not even posted anywhere... and you're calling ME arrogant?

Of course searching isnt posted as a rule. If you were really around forums, you would know that its common sense, not a rule.

Im sorry for such the long post, but this guy is very slow. Yes, feed the trolls, but i want him to know hes wrong. He has broken 4 of 9 rules. All in what, a few weeks? Mommy and daddy should monitor his computer activites. So your thread got closed? Big deal, dont come back b!tching about it. SEARCH. Why the hell do you think forums have a search feature? For lazy people like you? No, so that there isnt 50,000 threads about pine for a guitar body, or how to finish them. Maybe, you should have searched, then if you didnt find something, post that. This would have never happened then, would it?

Edited by AlGeeEater
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Guys, please don't take this as my siding with Filthy, but as much of a jerk as he's been from his first post through his last one, he does touch on a valid point, albeit heavyhandedly.

Wasn't the point of all these "board renovations", starting with Kevan becoming an admin to clean this place up and make it generally more professional and respectful?

If so, one must admit that jumping on new members like Kevan did is not exactly the warm, professional welcome we're trying to achieve here.

Kevan, I understand it's your style to be tough and sarcastic when laying down the law, and it works when dealing with older members or people who come in here -way- out of line. It's just that a simple "search first; thread closed" will suffice for first posts if we want to attract new members, not scare them away.

Please don't think I'm trying to tell you how to do your job. I just think that perhaps you don't realize that what you take as sarcasm or satire often comes across as anger to new members. Wait for them to get the hang of the forum first, then by all means smash their respective heads into proverbial walls. Every member needs a good slapping around every once in a while; just hold off until they're experienced enough to see it coming.

Dan D

skibum5545

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skibum, Kevan didn't jump on him, he pointed the right direction and closed the thread. And we all know he would haved been jumped anyway by somebody else, just that Kevan got him before any one else. Or like I said before his post would have been ignore alltogether. THe reason why KEvan posted the way he did, is the same reason I did here . If you start your question wrong, don't expect to get much help. And if he has actualy modded some other forums, he is well aware of the search function and how to use it.

Jeez, just by going to the front page of the PG forum, he can see the tutorials section, ...

Like crafty said, and I think is the best idea here, just ignore the dude and carry on with our place!

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Dan- While I understand what you're saying, I can't find any examples of "unprofessional" and/or "disrespectful" in my post here:

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=15166

Personally, I think it's a lot kinder than "search first; thread closed".

There's no sarcasm from me in that post, and I don't believe I was harsh- at all- whether people know me or not. If you see otherwise, please point it out.

BTW- I didn't suspend that first account. I wanted to give him at least 24 hrs. to bury himself.

As Algee pointed out...job well done.

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Wasn't the point of all these "board renovations", starting with Kevan becoming an admin to clean this place up and make it generally more professional and respectful?

If so, one must admit that jumping on new members like Kevan did is not exactly the warm, professional welcome we're trying to achieve here.

I have to disagree. Warm is very subjective. I know a lot of people here don't like the MIMF because it seems a little harsh, but I find it VERY professional, and there seems to be a lot more respect over there than there is here. When you have petty arguments like this going on every 5 days, it seems unprofessional to me. I think the mods do a very great job, but if anything I think they are too lax. Kevan gets a hard time for being mean, but he puts up with a lot. Personally, I think all threads like this one or dumb question threads should be deleted without a chance for reply. Perhaps send the person a PM asking them to search (that might also eliminate the "public ridicule" factor) after deleting the thread.

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Guys, please don't take this as my siding with Filthy, but as much of a jerk as he's been from his first post through his last one, he does touch on a valid point, albeit heavyhandedly.

Wasn't the point of all these "board renovations", starting with Kevan becoming an admin to clean this place up and make it generally more professional and respectful?

If so, one must admit that jumping on new members like Kevan did is not exactly the warm, professional welcome we're trying to achieve here.

Kevan, I understand it's your style to be tough and sarcastic when laying down the law, and it works when dealing with older members or people who come in here -way- out of line. It's just that a simple "search first; thread closed" will suffice for first posts if we want to attract new members, not scare them away.

Please don't think I'm trying to tell you how to do your job. I just think that perhaps you don't realize that what you take as sarcasm or satire often comes across as anger to new members. Wait for them to get the hang of the forum first, then by all means smash their respective heads into proverbial walls. Every member needs a good slapping around every once in a while; just hold off until they're experienced enough to see it coming.

Dan D

skibum5545

skibum, the reason this entire thred is here is because mister filthie put it here! I got yelled at (if you call it that) for being a NOOB and not using the search function my first few posts here. I was so new to forums I diddnt even know there was a search button B) But I diddnt go crying to my mommy and start a nasty thred after they told me how to do it right. I was like" o ok stupid me, soryr guys" And weny about my merry ways. It's not what happend but how he responded to what happend. This is whats gonn happen in life. You have people who are gonna tic you off. Thats just how life is. But it's how YOU respond to whats happening that shows how mature you are. It doesNOT matter what the other person did to you as long as you personally deal with it in a correct manner.

Ok can you please close this thred? There is no sense in keeping it open...

:EDIT: I just read the orginal post and I dont think IMHO kevan did ANYTHING wrong. He did NOT come across to me as being the tinyest bit mean or nasty. He was just doing his job and trying his best to make the forum work for all of us so we can build great guitars!!

Man I hate it when people get into the equasion. When people are involved things -always- go wrong. I dont see why it has to be this way though. Theres a forum called guitar nuts where it's mostly about wireing guitars. It's somewhat small, about 1000 members but ALL of them are VERY VERY nice and polite and always search and are always kind and considerate. The moderator there NEVER has to do anyhting because the people act like adults. You know what? I think adults act more like children than children do! In my experience children do what they are told and are nice and curdious and respectful. Adults on the other hand (I know there are MANY expections) act like mister filthie here.

Ok I'm done ranting about how screwed up socity is... B):D:D

ignore me if you will :D

Edited by Godin SD
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Theres a forum called guitar nuts where it's mostly about wireing guitars.  It's somewhat small, about 1000 members but ALL of them are VERY VERY nice and polite and always search and are always kind and considerate.  The moderator there NEVER has to do anyhting because the people act like adults. 

That's what you'd think going to the MIMF, but there are always people making places like this rotten. When the mods have absolutely zero tolerance and delete unnecessary threads, it creates the illusion of maturity on everyone's part.

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Theres a forum called guitar nuts where it's mostly about wireing guitars.  It's somewhat small, about 1000 members but ALL of them are VERY VERY nice and polite and always search and are always kind and considerate.  The moderator there NEVER has to do anyhting because the people act like adults. 

That's what you'd think going to the MIMF, but there are always people making places like this rotten. When the mods have absolutely zero tolerance and delete unnecessary threads, it creates the illusion of maturity on everyone's part.

Yes, but the reason mods do that is because theres always one bad apple in the bunch. Thats the reasons boards have mods. For the reason that people like dirty rotten jerk can be dealt with accordingly. If we didnt have mods, hell this forum would be an all out slugfest IMO. Mods keep things under control. You know what, good thing Kevan responded before anyone else, because im sure it would have been worse if somebody went and acually called him a noob or whatever. Good thing Kevan was polite, or like i said it would have been worse. Kevan did what he had to, and did it fine.

Bottom line is, dirty stinky rotten, whatever his name is, is a troll. Close the thread, ban him and move on. Hes obviously got a bad attitude, and doesnt like to be told something other than what he wants to hear.

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What the heck are you talking about? Kevan didn't reply with a nasty post. I think you are all fearing Kevans Bold and Bold capitalized red html. I read it, it was not harsh, you may think its harsh but thats prolly because of the capitals, boldness and red because that does make it look mean and nasty (seems funny i know but ask a few people taking abnormal psych.) He didn't say "HEY DUMMY THERES A SEARCH BUTTON" he simply pointed out where to go. Btw, seems like no one mentioned the links on the main homepage of how to refinish a body.

Change your attitude, or get lost.

Thank you Kevan as well for pointing the guy in the right direction, its good to get advice :D

-Jamie

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It is pretty standard internet ettiquete that bold letters and all-caps looks like shouting. Has been since the days when Al Gore invented the internet :D

All the same, Kevan was entirely in his rights to do all he's done. I too appreciate the work that all the mods do here. It is a fine line to walk to keep a very open forum and a constructive one at the same time.

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It is sad that a post like this gets a flurry of attension and a thread by a person that just spent months working on their first guitar gets maybe 1/3 the responce energy. Kinda sad.

To tell you the truth I am not very good with using these boards (or at least not as familiar as some). I guess thats why I do not get quite as exited when a new person doesn't use the search feature (when I first got here I just started clicking through posts). I really like reading questions by people who are just starting, as well as very experienced builders. It keeps things fresh. To me the worst of the worst is when someone slams the door on a new member, or someone refers to the member as "newbie" in a condesending way.

I understand both sides of the whole "search before you post" issue. New user is either not willing to look or doesn't even know to use it or understand the feature. I can also see how a new member may be looking to sort through some of the less accurate posts and look for advise on which information is more accurate. I also know a lot of people have invested their time to make tutorials and provide answers and do not want to keep responding to the same question.

I don't think Kevan was rude in any way. The mods do a great job. I hope that people on this board that have been here and are familiar with the way things work. Take a warmer approch to first time posters. A warm welcome if you don't wanna respond to the question, a gentle nudge in the right direction if you have the time. It will speaks well of the board as a whole as well as is much more professional. It just seems cold to me when I keep reading "use the search function before you ask the question".

Again, I believe Kevan was not rude, and did his job in a professional way. So don't take this as defending others poor behavior.

Peace, Rich :D

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How Arrogant do I have to be?

You're serious aren't you?

This place is called "Project Guitar"

Not "Project Search Function"

I asked a guitar related question...I got the hammer dropped on me because I didn't follow a rule that's not even posted anywhere... and you're calling ME arrogant?

Look bubba...I can totally respect you backing your boy on here...but let's not just make **** up to do it.

If the truth be known...probably every single question here has been asked in a different form over and over 1000 times...hell...just lock the place down and put a search box on the front page...

Arrogant...what a freaking joke.

As far as the person wondering whether or not God made people like me...yea...he does...you should be glad he made someone like me that was willing to ask questions...

After All

That's what your entire board is!!!...Q & A!

L8.

Wrong, read my post again and try to comprehend beyond a 6th grade reading level. I called you arrogant due to your statement of not having the time to bother with a search, because your time is so "valuable". Sounds like a round about way of saying "I'm better than all of you so you just feed me my answers on a spoon because I shouldn't have to work at anything."

I have no problem with people asking questions, hell, I didn't even really have a problem with you asking the same question that's been asked a hundred times on here, what I DID have a problem with was when you mentioned how valuable your time is so you can't even look up an answer with a 30 second search!

Now, the ironic part is, in your incredibly valuable time that you've spent asking your first question, as well as crying about what happened, you could have saarched for that answer along with probably a half dozen others you might have had.

Doesn't seem to me like your time is very valuable, you just don't know how to make good use of it is all........

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Let me reiterate--I am not siding with Filthie McNastie #1, 2, 3,...,(n-1) or n!

All I mean to say is that Kevan has the tendency to come across as mean when really he is not. I personally don't think that post was mean. However, it certainly came across as mean to Filthie. I know Kevan uses bold red font and large underlines in all of his posts. However, as a first response to a first post, Kevan might consider turning it down a notch or two.

You're right, Kevan did the right thing by closing the thread promptly and directing the new member to the right forum and search features. However, I contest, essentially, the font in which he did it. Erikbojerik is right; subtle nuances are often lost on the internet. What is intended as a nudge in the right direction can, in the wrong hands, be considered e-police brutality. When the post is from a moderator and has parts typed in red caps and bold, underlined caps, well....

I actually like the idea of responding to such issues by deleting the thread and taking it to PM. It'd help avoid more threads like this one.

And just in anticipation, I'm only dragging this thread on because I feel this issue needs to be discussed; all the disgruntled newbies of late need to come from somewhere, so let's get to the bottom of it and be done with it forever.

Dan D

skibum5545

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Since this thread isnt closed yet and its STILL going on, I will offer my 2p worth....

Kevan, in future, just delete threads that you feel are inappropriate or time wasting. Im not knocking you for what you did cos this is *YOUR* forum, but replying to it may have been like a red rag to a bull.

If a post by a newbie is stupid no-one is gonna answer it anyway, so just delete it.

I was gonna say how I had a simular experience when I first came here asking about UK wood suppliers. I got flamed by people telling me to go look for myself, which I didnt think was fair cos I had looked and couldnt find anything.

Luckily I have a list of people now that I can use. I found it myself and thats was that. Im still here over a year later and I know how this board works. I have no problem with newbies coming asking stuff like that, but arguing with a forum mod is like juggling with hand grenades. eventually its gonna blow you to bits!

Now, can we *ALL* put this behind us and get on with the art of building stuff?

NOTE: Please disregard anything you do not agree with in this thread. Im not looking for replies or arguements, just for peace and a nice place to come and see some amazing work.

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i personally (in my small experience) have found this place to be extremely nice, passive freindly and kind to new members.

if any of you have ever ventured over to the metaltabs.com forum, you will see what i mean. normal acceptable posts by new members are usually replied to by both moderators and members posting the most insulting humiliating things they can. after a while, the thread is closed, but not before the "n00b" is ripped into by pretty much every regular.

some general rules to posting there:

1. do not post unless you have 200+ posts already

2. do not ask questions

3. do not do anything

4. completely correct use of the queens english, grammar, spelling is essential

having said that, i love that place.

oh and god forbid anyone actually does something stupid, because there are some regulars who have an exquisite ability to manipulate the english language.

heres where one guy went wrong...

heres his attack on a moderator...

strangely, not many people get banned there, if they dont take personall offence, they are allowed to stay. after a month or two, if they are still hanging on, the verbal offence dies down.

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There are two sides to this...but things could and should be handled so much beter, then things like this thread simply do not take place.

I run two forums in the UK...both very successful, but we do not get stuff like this....and for very good reason.

On the one side, you can get a new member who will post a question that may have been asked a thousand times...who for one reason or another did not find what he was looking...now whether or not this new person searched or did not search is not the point. It is sooooo easy to jump on this person...in the case of this guy, we LATER found out that he couldn't be bothered...but we might never have found that out had this thread not been started...which it so easily could have been avoided. For sure, on this one side it can antogonise a mod.

On the other side...and this is the more important one...this forum is open to the public..there are going to be new members who come along...they may not be totally web wise, they may be enthusiastic...they may ask a stupid, lame or ask a question that has been asked a thousand times...it happens..just like someone said a mod will tackle that in whtever manner they see fit...it happens. But to some new people this can be very off putting...especially dealt with in public..and that's the crux of the matter.

Back to my own forums. We have a simple method with dealing with this very point. If a new member (and we ALWAYS give them a warm welcome...because this puts them at ease) asks a question that has been asked a thousand times...the post simply gets locked and a personal message gets sent to them to politely remind them of the use of the FAQ board. We set up a FAQ and constantly add to it...and when a member signs up..this info about the faq's is right at the bottom in bold right next to the agree button. Even in the FAQ's there is a sticky post telling new people how to use FAQ's.

This is not pandering to the stupid...this is welcoming new members...becasue they may be 16, they may be 64, they may be your son, daughter, aunt, uncle...you don't know at that stage..so we do it like that, then posts like this never happen, the new member has been dealt with politely in private and NOT PUBLIC for everyone else to jump on...and the forum gets along just fine.....

ANd the same goes for members who go out of turn at any stage...they are dealt with privately...not in public and the forum gets along with posts dedicated to what the forum is about and not dealing with rubbish like this....

Just my 0.2c worth...

I remember my first post here...I posted a factual diagram on wiring...I got lampooned because of it by some...I felt like not bothering again...but as I said then, I'm way too old to bother with petty arguments...but remember that some folk might take exception to public ridicule...in which case, they really cannot be blamed for posting flame in response...it's only natural defence...just like it is natural defence for a mod to act their own way...there is no need for it in public. If a member then shows him./herself to be a total pratt over time..then people simply do not reply to their posts and the trolls go away...and the forum is not full of rubbish...

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I dont think you guys get the point. It's not what Kevan did (although he did a great job) It's how filthie reacted in starting this thred that is wrong. That is the only point in time that anyone did anything wrong. I got the same thing when I first came here but I diddnt take it as mean, I just used the search and got all my questions anwserd! IMO filthie should be banned forever because of his conduct when he started this thred. I believe this behavier is unacceptable and should NOT be tollerated on this nor any other forum.

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I have nothing against the Mod or the person that posted the original question. I just like being part of a clean, professional board where folks treat each other with respect and don't act like children.

1. Kevans Post: His first post to Filthy was terse. Come on.. It's not hard to read the frustration in there. He could have simply said something like "Hey man, there are a ton of threads on this and out bandwidth is limited. Please use the search. Thread closed" and you wouldn't have heard a word from the person.

2. Filthy: His response to the thread closing was horribly out of line. He's a perfect example of an internet hothead that likes to get negative threads started. There are a million of em out there and I think they probably waste almost as much bandwidth as spam. He felt like he was wronged and instead of dealing with it civily, he decided to start a fight.

Anyway, an ounce of prevention (in proactively trying NOT to come off sounding ugly) by the mods can save numerous threads like this. Is it fair that you have to be nice to some idiot that asks a stupid question? no.. but you all are basically the "customer service" face for a forum and you set the tone for how people act and treat each other, so sometimes you just have to suck it up and not type what you are thinking :D

Maybe a new feature for this forum software would be a mod translation program where the mod could type "Listen you freakin dumba$$.. use the @#%$@ search button.. " which would kindly be translated to "Please direct your attention to the search feature" lol..

Anyway, thanks to the mods for what you do, I don't envy you in the least - you all make this board a great place to come for information, and thanks to the vast majority of all you other members that don't get your feelings hurt and lash out on the occasion you get your hand slapped for not doing your homework :D it's a rite of passage is it not?

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When the mods have absolutely zero tolerance and delete unnecessary threads, it creates the illusion of maturity on everyone's part.

No way. The mods at Carvin.com are always deleting any and everything that rubs them the wrong way that day and it certainly doesn't create a "sense of maturity". On the contrary. It creates the sense of a kindergarten class and that the members are all children.

I know I get frustrated when people post 12 questions in the same post and don't even try to search. But you can't jump on them for it. Give them a friendly push and be done with it.

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The only real problem I have with all this is that the last two times people have posted really easy, asked a million times questions, they've been finishing questions that haven't been posted in the finishing section - if people'd even just take enough time to look over things and realize that there's an entire section of the forum dedicated to the general topic of their question, and post there, I'd be more or less ok with it.

It's just when people don't even bother to look at the forum long enough to realize that their easy questions about how to finish their guitars should go into the finishing section before they post in the general solidbodies section that it's really annoying.

(I haven't been a member of THIS forum for a long time, but the same thing happens in every forum I've ever been a member of and it drives me crazy)

In my short time here, it's looked to me like the mods do a great job, keeping things pretty well in hand without being thought police, and people should do less grousing about things :D. Filthy whatever was way out of line, and if he had modded a few boards as he claimed, he was even further out of line as he'd have to have SOME idea of how forums worked and wouldn't have done everything he possibly could have wrong since that first ill-fated post.

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