Kammo1 Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Hey guys just would like your opinions and views on what would you say is the best 2-part finish you would recommend. I am thinking of Polyester or Polyurethane so if any of you guys have had any good experience with them what type did you use and name of product would help. I have used a 2 part laquer and to be honest it hasn't yielded the results I would of liked so now its gotta be 2-part Poly I think its the only way to go. Also what is a good 2-part basecoat to use as a sealer and filler to go with the above, your opinions and views are very well appreciated. Kammo1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I think Jeremy (LGM Guitars) is the only person on the forums using 2 part polyurethanes right now. Do you have the proper safety equipment (forced air respirator in addition to a spray booth)? Spraying two part poly isn't something to take lightly, because the stuff will kill you. I'm looking into everything I'll need to spray it right now, and I haven't decided if I want to take the plunge yet. If you've got everything you need to do it safely, I think Jeremy uses a lot of House of Kolor paints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 You say that you aren't happy with what you're using. What aren't you happy with? What are you trying to achieve and where have the fiinishes that you've used fallen short? Like Devon says, you are gonna need a whole lot of stuff to shoot the polys. They off gas isocyanates which is what they use in gas chambers to kill people. Give the folks here some specifics as to what you've tried and what you've done. It may be that yoou just need to fine tune things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Like Devon says, you are gonna need a whole lot of stuff to shoot the polys. They off gas isocyanates which is what they use in gas chambers to kill people. ← Not quite, an iso cyanate is a cyanide compound in a very small quantity, not quite the same as the cyanide gas they use in the gas chamber But it is still very deadly. It requires a booth and a forced air respirator to spray safely. As for not being happy with the laquers, thats why I quit using them, they aren't durable enough, they aren't as crystal clear as poly's, and they take forever to dry and shrink forever. I have not used Polyester due to it not being available up here, but I do know people that have. Most like the polyester because it is even faster cure than Urethane, but the end result finish of urethane is better. It's a deeper better looking finish. I personally am willing to wait a couple extra days for the better depth of the Urethane. PPG is ok, RM Diamont is fantastic, and HOK is fantastic in the 2 pack urethanes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kammo1 Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hi guys basically it is EXACTLY as Jeremy stated shrinkage no matter how long you leave it it always moves and literally without waiting months to cure which I don't have I feel I need a more durable harder finish. I understand the full health side of using Poly and it is off putting but maybe what I was thinking is using a good high build basecoat that dries hard and doesn't move(ie Poly) and then maybe using the more friendly laquer on the top but I didn't want to mix everything I want to stay in a system that is all compatible with one another. Jeremy as you are what I call a more professional and experienced painter how long would you leave the basecoat and which one do you recommend? before applying the colour coats and clears? Thanks Kammo1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Hi guys basically it is EXACTLY as Jeremy stated shrinkage no matter how long you leave it it always moves and literally without waiting months to cure which I don't have I feel I need a more durable harder finish. I understand the full health side of using Poly and it is off putting but maybe what I was thinking is using a good high build basecoat that dries hard and doesn't move(ie Poly) and then maybe using the more friendly laquer on the top but I didn't want to mix everything I want to stay in a system that is all compatible with one another. Jeremy as you are what I call a more professional and experienced painter how long would you leave the basecoat and which one do you recommend? before applying the colour coats and clears? Thanks Kammo1 ← I do mean to seem repetitive. If you don't have the proper setup, don't even consider spraying two part poly urethanes. IT WILL KILL YOU. End of story. Lacquers aren't bad paints. They are probably your best option if you don't have the proper spray booth/forced air respirator system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Hi guys basically it is EXACTLY as Jeremy stated shrinkage no matter how long you leave it it always moves and literally without waiting months to cure which I don't have I feel I need a more durable harder finish. I understand the full health side of using Poly and it is off putting but maybe what I was thinking is using a good high build basecoat that dries hard and doesn't move(ie Poly) and then maybe using the more friendly laquer on the top but I didn't want to mix everything I want to stay in a system that is all compatible with one another. Jeremy as you are what I call a more professional and experienced painter how long would you leave the basecoat and which one do you recommend? before applying the colour coats and clears? Thanks Kammo1 ← Basically, with the Urethane base/clear systems, you do have a limited window with the base coat paint to get clear on it for best adhesion. I like to spray the clear within 24 hours of the base. Waiting longer is fine, but you'll have to add an adhesion promoter for best results. Keep in mind that the base coat systems are not a "high build" in any sense, they are a color base. They offer no paint build, no resistance to damage, and no gloss, they MUST be protected with clear. You can use a laquer clear over them, but with no advantage, you'll still be stuck with the wait and cure time of laquer. Keep in mind that paint referred to as laquer is typically the clear. There are tints that can be added to nitro laquer, but to my knowledge, there is no colored nitro laquer that is a true nitro. In reading your comment here again "how long would you leave the basecoat and which one do you recommend? before applying the colour coats and clears" I think you are misunderstanding what base coat is. Your color coats are typically what is referred to as base. There are basically 4 steps in painting a guitar body: 1. Sealer (wood sealer, epoxies etc) 2. Primer 3. Base (color coats) 4. Clear Depending on the primer you use, it can be used for your sealer, I use a 2 part epoxy based primer which fills even the most porous grains in 2 coats. BUT!!!! it is extremely dangerous to spray, even worse than the 2 part Urethanes. Base coat is the color coats, in some paint jobs it may be 2 or 3 colors for one end color. There are Kandy's I spray where I start with a black base, followed by silver, followed by the Kandy. Then the clear goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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