Petrucci Wiring

[Sambo]

I was just looking at the ibanez diagram and was very confused as to why a 4pdt switch was needed. so i just had a doodle. Anyone have any thoughts on the diagram below? will it work?

Switch is a DPDT on-on-on

Thanks

[lovekraft]

Well, the first thing that jumps out is that the pickups are out of phase with one another - if that's what you want, great, but I don't think that's how a JMP is wired.

[Kevan]

Ibanez JPM Wiring Diagram:

http://www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=1998&w=JPM100

Note the switch.

[jnewman]

Ibanez JPM Wiring Diagram:

http://www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=1998&w=JPM100

Note the switch.

←

Wait... why wouldn't that work with a DPDT switch? If you just moved the wires attached to the outside set of poles to the center bottom lugs, wouldn't it work the same way?

[Sambo]

exactly my point seeing as two poles go to each of the ground and hot, why not just combine them?

think a testing might be in order when these new dimarzio's arrive

[jnewman]

Yours and the Ibanez's aren't exactly the same... but it's too late at night for me to figure out what the differences are .

[Sambo]

yeah, as lovecraft says the pickups are out of phase on mine, which is incidentally what i wanted for a nice honky tone.

But, i was looking on a site at the colour codes for the wires on dimarzio's. And figured (correct me if im wrong) that to keep them in phase, you need to go start to finish of the coil (ie green to white) on a south polarity coil, and finish to start on a north polarity coil (ie black to red).

So how does this look?

That should hopefully work

[Sambo]

Oooh, same as the ibanez one. hee hee.

[lovekraft]

The first thing you need to do is figure out which wires go where in each position, and then configure a switch setup. This scattergun approach will no doubt get you some interesting results, but unless you just get lucky, the chances of it working the way you expect it to are minimal. Carefully compare the diagram that Kevan showed you to yours, and see if they get equivalent results.

Just out of curiosity, since Ibanez has had decades of manufacturing experience (not to mention great designers like Jim Donahue), why would you assume that they would deliberately use a more complicated (and hence more expensive, both to purchase and to install) switch than was absolutely necessary? It's not impossible that they might have missed a simpler solution, but it isn't very likely.

[scott from _actual time_]

That should hopefully work

uh, actually it won't. you haven't labeled the poles in your on/on/on switch, so i can't tell which asymmetrical set of poles will be active in the middle position, but regardless this diagram won't have both humbuckers' hot wires connected to the output in the middle position.

toggle switches and minitoggles don't work the same as 5-way strat or 3-way tele switches, where the middle positions make multiple tabs connect to the common output. neither do 24 pole switches. this is how an on/on/on DPDT toggle works:

*--* *

*--* *

*--* *

* *--*

* *--*

* *--*

so when using switches like that, or a 24 pole, you have to use extra banks of poles or make more connections to get things to work in middle positions where multiple pickups are on -- like in the JPM wiring. for the JPM, you need _two_ on/on/on toggles, and that's what the 12 pole 3-way switch essentially is.

Edited April 28, 2005 by scott from _actual time_

[Sambo]

Ummm... well.. maybe the switches from guitar sellers go like that, but i use ones from a local electronics shop, and they are £1.50 and go like this

*--* *

*--* *

*-*-*

*-*-*

* *--*

* *--*

Have a look about half way down this page:

http://www.1728.com/guitar.htm

Now using a switch such as that i canna see for the life of me why it won't work.

[scott from _actual time_]

*--* *

*--* *

*-*-*

*-*-*

* *--*

* *--*

Now using a switch such as that i canna see for the life of me why it won't work.

sure -- if you can find a switch like that, and you get your phases and magnetic polarities right, it should work.

in 15 years working with electronics i've never heard of a 'center-on' minitoggle that connects multiple poles to the common -- rocker switches, sure, but not toggles. Mouser doesn't seem to carry anything like that. a Google search turned up only that one URL that you posted, and regular on/on/on minitoggles called 'center-on' to differentiate them from on/off/on. that URL you posted says you can get those at Radio Shack, but i've never seen any toggle switch like that there. have you checked the switches you bought with a voltmeter? are you positive they work that way?

and lovekraft is absolutely right about companies almost always finding the easiest/cheapest way to do things. it is possible that ibanez missed an equivalent DP switch, but it's very unlikely.

Edited April 28, 2005 by scott from _actual time_

[Sambo]

There we go! I have a couple of those switches for wiring in my strat and they're very nice. Incidentally i've already got 2 4pdt switches to wire up my new guitar but it was just something i noticed and thought i would share. I'm always one to believe that just because people are 'experts' doesn't mean that their way is always the best. After all, if people don't experiment, we never get anywhere now do we? as for my 'scattergun' approach, i like it, and it's always worked well for me! You only learn by experimenting, so why not 'ave a go?

[lovekraft]

Experimenting is great - however, reinventing the wheel is a waste of time! There's always one more way to do something, but people become experts by learning the simplest, easiest and least expensive way to do things effectively. Toggle switches are straight-forward mechanical devices, so applying logic is simpler and easier than "experimenting" - simply decide what results you desire, and select an appropriate switch and wiring scheme. If you can find a DPDT ON-BOTH-ON switch, you can probably make it work - as Scott said, it won't work with a standard ON-ON-ON toggle.

BTW, if you only learn by experimenting, may I strongly suggest you avoid high explosives and hang-gliding.

[Sambo]

And drugs