1166zhang Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 thank you for sharing i think it is useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 necro bump... hehe... so much in this thread that is a good read. There are things on both sides of the argument I'd agree and disagree with... but I'll spare everyone. Pretty thought provoking in a lot of ways.    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfab Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 This reminds me of a Star Trek episode where a child uses a computer to build his vision of a sculpture he's thinking of. Let's face it, you could be the best woodworker in the world but, if you don't have the vision of the finished item? what do you have? Not to upset builders but, I remember 40 years ago when I met a person who showed me a great flawless made guitar he made and it was a copy of a LesPaul. I said "wow you do great work" but I thought to myself " If you are that good at making a guitar, also make your own design. I find it the same with musicians, They can play or sing very well but only other peoples music. If you make copies of other peoples guitars, please take this as an inspiration to be more creative and build your own creations. You can do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 @woodfab, I beg to partially disagree with both the builder and musician arguments. I fully admit that there's a great value in creating something unique. Then again, if you copy something that already exists and do it better than the original? Will that decrease the value of the end product? Speaking about Gibson LP guitars, OW Appleton built a single cut solid body already in the early 40's and offered it to Gibson who said that they're not interested. Paul Bigsby built single cut solid bodies at the same time. Then all of the sudden following Fender's success in the 50's Gibson started to make single cut solid bodies and branded them to a famous player called Les Paul and the rest is history. Yet it's also well known that the manufacturing quality of Gibson guitars can be quite sloppy, you can find several videos about cutting an LP half to reveal a neck joint with huge gaps etc. I'd rather take a "great flawless" copy than a poorly built original. When it comes to performing music, a good performance is in my ears often better than the original. How many songs did Elvis write? Or Sinatra? Going farther back in history, Bach did play his organ compositions and Mozart could play his piano compositions and so on. But there were no recording studios at that time, all their compositions were available as sheet music only. Playing sheet music can be compared to using a bought routing template, don't you think? Not to mention their orchestral compositions. Did they conduct the orchestra so that the audience could hear the "original" stuff? Most often not. Both pop and classical music have their iconic performers who can bring forth the very essence of a composition. And then there's the composers who rarely perform(ed) anything, both for pop and classical music. Irving Berlin wrote a thousand songs, many being #1's. Have you ever heard him perform them? Does it mean that White Christmas by Bing Crosby is merely a copy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfab Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 Playing the same song is not copying the song. Copying the song is when you play it so it sounds like the original, Playing a song with different instruments say like a piano, guitar, violins ,voice, etc. than the original is making it your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 1 hour ago, woodfab said: Playing the same song is not copying the song. Copying the song is when you play it so it sounds like the original, I agree. But how about singing? Imitating hiccups and such is one thing, but if two singers sharing the same vocal range sing a song note by note like how it's written by a composer, whom would you consider the original and whom the copycat? In pop it's common to slightly alter the melody, shorten or lengthen a note here and there and add a slide and some personal vibrato. In classical music you can't do that, all you can use is your voice. Some have a wider vocal range which may make their upper register ring in a more relaxed way, some a recognizable vibrato but in their comfort zone there's not much difference. A tenor is a tenor, a baritone is a baritone. Almost like instruments, almost but not quite as there's stars among mere mortals. And then there's those who for some odd reason sound similar. For decades I believed Roy Hamilton's "Don't let go" was sung by Charlie Rich... You do know that many iconic Elvis's songs are quite true to the originals, Guitar Man being so true that Jerry Reed, who composed and recorded the original played the guitars on Elvis's record. Mark James's original of Suspicious Minds is also very similar to what Elvis did. Or, whom would you think about when speaking about 'I love Rock'n'Roll'? Alan Merrill and the Arrows? Or Joan Jett and the Blackhearts? The arrangements are one to one, only the short guitar solo is a bit different - a piece of improvisation in another take... My point here is about mastering, taking something good and raising it to another level without making changes. Just performing better. Ancient cabinet makers are one good example. Every one of them could build a cabinet with drawers and doors and they couldn't change the design too much, yet there's legendary builders whose works are still sought of while the products of the average makers have fallen apart. A good design is one thing, like the shape of a LesPaul. Good workmanship is another thing and not less worthy.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfab Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 I'm sorry for going off topic "Cnc vs. Handmade" I've made a few guitars basically with a bandsaw, table saw, drill press, wood-rasp and recently with a router and milling machine. and last year I was amazed when I met someone who makes beautiful guitars with a Jig-Saw and basically all hand tools. I guess it's the end results that counts the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 10 hours ago, woodfab said: I'm sorry for going off topic "Cnc vs. Handmade" The topic was already necro bumped and sliding to a side track is more the rule than exception here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.