christhegreat Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 (edited) Hi there. I recently glued a pomelle sapelle veneer on an Ibanez RG. The problem is that the glue has poured through the veneer and now I have glue on the guitar top. I used ProBond glue (polyurethane glue). I'd like to know what could I do to remove the excess glue without damaging the veneer. Should I sand it, use a special product? thanks Edited June 17, 2005 by christhegreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 if it was me i'd probably take a cabinet scraper or flat piece of glass and gently scrape the glue off of the veneer. if you use a chemical remover you stand a good chance of loosening the veneer itself. if it's porous enough to let the glue out it's porous enough to let the remover in. that being said read the label on the glue and see what they recommend for cleaning tools and spills. you could always try a small test spot and see what happens. good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 The problem is, if the glue has come through the veneer as you describe, you can't just "scrape" or "sand" it off. It's all the way through the veneer so no matter how far you sand down in the veneer you'll still be in glue. When you apply a veneer you use just the slightest skim of glue, I usually squeegee it out until there is almost none, otherwise it does just what you've experienced. The next problem is, those area's where the glue has saturated the veneer are already sealed, so it won't take a stain anymore in those area's, it will end up looking very splotchy. My personal advice would be, veneer is cheap, remove it and do it again. Otherwise, what you'll need to do is just sand it smooth, seal the whole top with a clear, and then apply a transparent paint finish over the clear, (it will have to be sprayed) and then re-clear the entire thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 This is why I always say when it comes to veneering, practice on scrap first -until you get repeatable, successful results-, THEN do the guitar. Veneering is not something that most people get right the first time around. You're going to have to remove it and try again. Polyurethane glue is a terrible choice of glue for veneering. I use regular Titebond, and no more than I absolutely need to get the job done. Use a piece of wax paper between your glue board and veneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 could you not use vinyl sealer?i dunno if thats the name of the company's product or not,but behlen make it,and it says that wen putting on a pollyurathane gloss finish,its recomended to finish the wood/guitar with vinyl sealer,then polyurathane finish it,would that work?its to stop it bleeding through heres a picture,i tried getting info elswere,but this is the only way,it tells you about the vinyl sealer at the bottom,and its only £7 per quarter gallon hope that helps,cause its been 45 minutes since i read this to try and get the info up !! lol.just trying to prove i no a little bit about this sorta stuff,i bet its got nothing to do with wat u want lol,sorry anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 could you not use vinyl sealer?i dunno if thats the name of the company's product or not,but behlen make it,and it says that wen putting on a pollyurathane gloss finish,its recomended to finish the wood/guitar with vinyl sealer,then polyurathane finish it,would that work?its to stop it bleeding through heres a picture,i tried getting info elswere,but this is the only way,it tells you about the vinyl sealer at the bottom,and its only £7 per quarter gallon hope that helps,cause its been 45 minutes since i read this to try and get the info up !! lol.just trying to prove i no a little bit about this sorta stuff,i bet its got nothing to do with wat u want lol,sorry anyway ← umm...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 why?seems a good idea,it will seal it and stop the glue seaping through,look,i'm trying my hardest here,i dont no a lot about wood as much as you guys,at least i'm trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 If you were going into surgery tomorrow, would you want to be operated on by someone who 'was trying hard but didn't really know a lot'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 wrong,i'm not actually buildin,i'm giving suggestions,so feck off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 wrong,i'm not actually buildin,i'm giving suggestions,so feck off ← Hey, you're new around here, so I'm sure these guys will cut you some slack. But you need to know that people like Drak and LGM and Wes are the backbone of this place, they know a lot (even if they're not always, eh-hem, oh-so-tender while sharing what they know) and if they become interested in a problem, it's usually because they can help with the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 sorry,but they didnt even bother to help,wich pissed me off,only cause i spent ages gettin the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 How did they not even bother to help? This is why I always say when it comes to veneering, practice on scrap first -until you get repeatable, successful results-, THEN do the guitar. Polyurethane glue is a terrible choice of glue for veneering. I use regular Titebond, and no more than I absolutely need to get the job done. Use a piece of wax paper between your glue board and veneer. The problem is, if the glue has come through the veneer as you describe, you can't just "scrape" or "sand" it off. It's all the way through the veneer so no matter how far you sand down in the veneer you'll still be in glue. When you apply a veneer you use just the slightest skim of glue, I usually squeegee it out until there is almost none, otherwise it does just what you've experienced. The next problem is, those area's where the glue has saturated the veneer are already sealed, so it won't take a stain anymore in those area's, it will end up looking very splotchy. My personal advice would be, veneer is cheap, remove it and do it again. Otherwise, what you'll need to do is just sand it smooth, seal the whole top with a clear, and then apply a transparent paint finish over the clear, (it will have to be sprayed) and then re-clear the entire thing. Does that look like NOT helping to you? Anyway, about the veneer, I'd probably just remove it and start again like Drak suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 But the info was irrelevant. Good intentions aside, why try to help when (by your own admission) you don't know anything about the subject? You're likely to do more harm than good, and waste your own time, and that of others. To the original poster: As Drak said, poly' glue is an insane choice for veneering. It's totally resistant to solvent or mechanical removal, and it foams when it sets - forcing your veneer up, and creating a thick glue line! I'd remove the veneer (probably going to have to sand it away) and go again. With the right glue **edit** Hunter - board policy is no graphical signatures, so you'll want to ditch that pic. Welcome to the board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 wrong,i'm not actually buildin,i'm giving suggestions,so feck off ← it's not a viable suggestion.vinyl sealer is a sealer coat for finishing...not a glue.it's obvious you don't really understand even what the problem is or anything about veneering,so really you can make suggestions,but don't get mad when you are called for being wrong. MODERATOR TONE and we do not allow the "feck off" crap around here,so you better give that up. END MODERATOR TONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gsrguitars Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Whitey never said he was right - he tried to help - albeit wrong. But he DID question mark his own suggestion implying uncertainty. Now he knows he's wrong, he's learnt something. So I disagree with Setch. Whitey's question raised an issue, quickly addressed, but he did not provide false information - read back, he said "would that work?". -G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Whitey never said he was right - he tried to help - albeit wrong. But he DID question mark his own suggestion implying uncertainty. Now he knows he's wrong, he's learnt something. So I disagree with Setch. Whitey's question raised an issue, quickly addressed, but he did not provide false information - read back, he said "would that work?". -G ← let's stop the argument. whitey said it may not work...then when i confirmed it would not,and drak backed me up,he got pissy.that is the end of it.any more posts about this crap will get deleted and read my last post in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoticwood Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Hi, I,m new here ~ been lurking unregistered for months. I don't know if Whitey meant this but it would be a good Idea to seal backside of veneer before gluing it down to keep it from bleeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 It may or may not be a good idea, depending on what kind of sealer you use, some sealers may not adhese (is that the right word? Why don't I just say "STICK"?!) to the sealant. Of course, I may be wrong, so don't listen to me. >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoticwood Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Yeah, you need to match the sealer to your adhesive requirements, also some veneers are wrinkled and not flat and you can soften them with a mixture of glycerin and water to soften them to flatten them so they don't crack when you press them out flat before the glue down. This of ourse needs to dry before assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Whitey never said he was right - he tried to help - albeit wrong. But he DID question mark his own suggestion implying uncertainty. Now he knows he's wrong, he's learnt something. So I disagree with Setch. Whitey's question raised an issue, quickly addressed, but he did not provide false information - read back, he said "would that work?". whitey's posts did -nothing- for this thread but take it -completely- off course. As I said, I hope he has learned something about veneers and sealers, but as far as this thread and christhegreat's question and a good answer, he has done nothing to forward ctg's progress, which is where the attention should be, and where my answer was directed. GSR, you're just muddying the waters of this already muddy thread with your opinions of who did what and why, your opinions are not helping the thread's integrity a single bit...why don't you concentrate on giving the original poster the correct information on how to solve his problem, the rest will settle out as it should if the correct information is being given to the correct poster who had the original question. You do have an answer for him, right? Now he knows he's wrong, he's learnt something. Oh really? I must have missed that part, could you point that post out to me please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Yeah, you need to match the sealer to your adhesive requirements, also some veneers are wrinkled and not flat and you can soften them with a mixture of glycerin and water to soften them to flatten them so they don't crack when you press them out flat before the glue down. This of ourse needs to dry before assembly. ← i have used 3m spray adhesive before with good results...there is not enough adhesive that way to bleed through. but this is also why i prefer an actual 1/4" or thicker top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gsrguitars Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 (edited) whitey's posts did -nothing- for this thread but take it -completely- off course. As I said, I hope he has learned something about veneers and sealers, but as far as this thread and christhegreat's question and a good answer, he has done nothing to forward ctg's progress, which is where the attention should be, and where my answer was directed. GSR, you're just muddying the waters of this already muddy thread with your opinions of who did what and why, your opinions are not helping the thread's integrity a single bit...why don't you concentrate on giving the original poster the correct information on how to solve his problem, the rest will settle out as it should if the correct information is being given to the correct poster who had the original question. You do have an answer for him, right? ← Ok, EDIT, this got resolved in a separate thread. Glad you dropped the BS post Drak, twas a tad unfair. Peace out, Gary Edited June 18, 2005 by gsrguitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhegreat Posted June 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 I did try sanding, and came to the point where I always see glue. I'll remove the veneer, and try again. But I'd like to knoe what I could do to prevent this from happening again, as how to make the veneer less porous before glueing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 how bout some...dundundun...VINYL SEALER! lol.i think some1 suggested a different glue,like wood glue,that shouldn't seep through...but i suck at this,so meh lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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