Sparky Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) I too was a little surprised by the comments about the turquoise inlay given the fairly obvious southwestern theme of the guitar...maybe the body should have been made of red clay to really drive the point home. This is one of the most impressive pieces of work I have seen. Sure, there are tiny details that Im not too thrilled with, but who cares? It's not my guitar. I agree with Wes, some here are thinking way too much as the builder (not that I can blame you though) and not as the customer who will take this guitar home. Edited July 11, 2005 by Sparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I can't truly speak for Wes, but I can say this: As impressed as I've been with other guitars (complete guitars, not just elements), this is the "ornate guitar" (ie. bearing in mind that in truth, I prefer plain guitars like Telecasters!) that has most impressed me with the execution of thematic content. It screams Native American, and yet it didn't do anything cheesy with the concept. The obsessive attention to details is admirable. There's not a single bit of it that is "out of place" in my opinion, though I'm not sure how well that wooden StrapLoc is going to hold up under duress. Or from another perspective: I am extremely impressed by things like Boggs' first attempt, and his adherence to his plan despite us telling him the body style was ugly. I am thrilled to read about newbies doing new things and succeeding, and I hope people feel the same way about my small accomplishments. But only rarely do I look at a guitar and sigh contentedly at the... holistic accomplishment... for lack of a proper term. I've definitely gotten the same feeling from seeing some of David Myka's work (those spruce-topped Dragonflies... <wibble>) and the work of other artists mentioned in this thread, like Craig Lavin or some of Drak's finishes... I'm just rehashing what Wes has already clarified, I guess, but I hope we all remember that verbal communication is a really poor way of expressing feelings (particularly TYPED and on a forum!). I think I relate very strongly to the same thing Wes was feeling about this guitar, and it could have accidentally have been ME saying things like that; however, I wouldn't have meant anything negative about other peoples' work, either. And if I WOULD have (luckily, the thread had already progressed by the time I had arrived) it would have been primarily as a reaction against people who didn't really understand the singular accomplishment of realizing a thematic vision, which includes the use of tuquoise inlay by necessity and by design! It's such an obvious choice that it would have been a mistake to NOT use it!! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 oh ..by the way,i want everyone to notice that i said nothing i have seen TOPS what had been done in those regards...not equals...TOPS.. so if you are insulted because you think something you did tops it..well..that is your opinion,but it does not make me arrogant edit hmm....that came out a bit combative as well...but that isn't meant to be.i just don't know how else to say it...just take it as a simple statement please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 though I'm not sure how well that wooden StrapLoc is going to hold up under duress. i looked closely at that when i first saw it,because i thought the same thing...but then i noticed that the inner ring is metal,and on a straplock that is what takes the stress...the outside wood will hold nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I think my biggest gripe with the guitar is that it seems a little over done -- almost to the point, in my eyes, of being gaudy. Don't think that I don't recognize its artistic value or anything. But even the best artists know when to quit. I dunno... when I look at it... I literally have to look away because its so over done. When I look at art, I am looking for something aesthetically pleasing. I look at guitars the same way. As someone above noted, the fretboard could have been a darker color. A darker color fretboard would have made the light colored inlays stand out more. Thus, if I don't find it aesthetically pleasing, isn't that grounds enough to validate my negative comment? Not my cup of tea, but if its yours, drink up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorn Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Thank you very much for this thread and everyone's opinions, I appreciate it all. Keep on buildin' Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Wes - I see what you mean about the Straploc. I'm sure Rob planned it out and has tested them before and all that shenanigans; however, with a normal Dunlop style straploc (or am I getting them mixed up, is this the Schaller type?) the centre bit is just for keeping it clipped in place, not for bearing a load, which is still done by the outside of the clip (or at least in combination with the inner part). Primal - For real? You must be like me, then, preferring absolutely plain guitars. BUT, in the world of 'ornate' guitars, I find this one to be fairly simple. If you take a step back from the monitor, you don't even notice the detail/fanciness. The wood is uniform instead of a really fancy affair, and despite the details which are in theory more 'intricate' than a plain ol' "figured-top special" I find the overall impression to be simpler than something with one of those figured maple tops. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 All I meant by my comment was that the turqoise clashes in my eyes. I adore everything else about the guitar and I admire the effort that must have gone into it, inlays included. I admit that I know very little about the culture that inspired that guitar, and I can fully appreciate that someone else might find it downright sexy, but from a purely design standpoint the turqoise and the other aggregate colours of the neck/fingerboard do not go together very well. I guess if your more knowledgable on the cultural motivations you would be more accepting and used to it. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Not my cup of tea, but if its yours, drink up! *Gulp, Gulp* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Jivin - fair enough! jmrentis - Ron - Hope you stop by more often. Lots of people here that could benefit from any knowledge you could share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Primal - For real? You must be like me, then, preferring absolutely plain guitars. BUT, in the world of 'ornate' guitars, I find this one to be fairly simple. If you take a step back from the monitor, you don't even notice the detail/fanciness. The wood is uniform instead of a really fancy affair, and despite the details which are in theory more 'intricate' than a plain ol' "figured-top special" I find the overall impression to be simpler than something with one of those figured maple tops. ← To an extent. Don't get me wrong though, I likes me a good figured top occasionally. But I guess I'm one of those minimalist people... At the moment this is still my favorite bass of all time: http://basspalace.com/dynamic/displaybass/...StringBass/3695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I do think the guitar is awesome, don't get me wrong, even if I personally am not into it I'm not taking anything away from the guitar, no different than how some people prefer mustangs over ferrari's. I'm a Ferrari man, that's what I think the Leviathan's are, Ron's guitar here is to me the Mercedes, a fantastic guitar, one of the best, but not my style. As I say, I have nothing but respect for Ron's work. He's done some stuff in the past that I've sat there thinking holy crap, how'd he do that?? Anyway, in the end, I took something Wes said probably a little wrong, and he probably didn't word it the way he meant, I know not everyone likes the Leviathans and I'm ok with that, I'm sure Ron knows not everyone will like this guitar, but in the end, the only person you have to please is the customer, and hopefully yourself, though I've had to build guitars for people where I sat there going this looks awful, and it blew their minds. Beauty in the eye of the beholder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepultura999 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 The turquoise in the first fret looks awesome. It's probably the light coloured fretboard with the turquoise that's killing you all lol. Look at the first fret and picture the whole fretboard that way (rosewood, or ebony if you wish) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorecki Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I would certainly give this guitar a 10 for unique creation, especially the fretboard. The dullness of the colors including the turquose makes me think of New Mexico and related memories. I want to say I've never seen a guitar represent elements of a culture this well before (though my memory is failing these days) without crossing over into tacky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Thats a hella nice guitar. Unique, and very stylized. However it was built, the final product looks very well done. As an art piece it has certainly inspired thought and debate (which seems to be the makins of good art). I don't think I would have ever thought of that exact combination of materials, but it's neat to see someone else did. Great Guitar! Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 The bridge is the highlight for me. The strap buttons look great and will be fine provided they use the locks IMO. It looks like a regular straplock with a koa sleeve. With a traditional strap, the thinnest part of the Koa could crack or split. But if it's CA soaked, it's basically high density plastic now. I don't understand the open Sperzels. It seems you're asking for dust and debris to get in there. I've never seen those before, maybe I'm missing something. Sperzels, with their big metal disc on the inside are prone to getting gritty over time anyway. The standard ones need to be taken apart and cleaned sometimes. That's why I'm confused by the open top. The guitar is gorgeous. Like some of you, I've never liked turquoise. I don't like it in jewelry, silverware, sculpure, or guitar inlay. That's my personal handicap. It doesn't detract from the guitar at all. I can see the guitar for what it is, even though I wouldn't have designed it. As for the comparisons, I think some of LGM's airbrushed flames represent the same amount of planning and attention to detail as some of this guitar's inlay, they're just different activities. Craig's inlays are equally exhausting. Now that Wes knows there's some CNC involved, I think he agrees with the rest of us that although this guitar is among the finest designed and implemented, it doesn't represent a particular breakthrough in human faculty. I do agree with Wes from the standpoint of design impotence. Guitars like these should make all of us take a look at that slab "tinker toy" guitar we're working on and try to figure out if we're shortcutting certain ornaments because we're just following the path layed down for us by assembly line mass merchants. Guitars like these should be a shock to the system. You guys have to get weaned off the Tele teat! I'm as "vintage" as the next guy, but it's a new millenium now, baby! Maybe this guitar can help wake some of you up! I'm going to start calling you guys the "Rumplestiltskins" Oh, wait....I forgot, this guitar is still the same basic LP junior shape from the 50's. Oh well, at least it's got turquoise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooten2 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Rich, I was hoping you would post up on this thread. Being one of the bigger "wood nuts" that I know, I was anxious for your opinion! Uh, huh huh... got any koa?? Frank, Slab tinker toy guitars?!!? I always thought of mine as leggos, or maybe more like jigsaw puzzles. I also noticed the irony in having an American Southwestern guitar made with wood from Hawaii and Africa. But hey, how much tonewood grows in Arizona/New Mexico anyway? Gotta use something! I love that turquoise, especially the medicine wheel on the 12 fret. I've seen some Takamine acoustics with SW-inspired turquoise rosettes and inlays. They are beautiful! For me, the Thorn guitar site is one of my favs for drooling. Great work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 The dullness of the colors including the turquose makes me think of New Mexico and related memories. as someone who has also traveled to new mexico and colorado,and visited some tourist spots which were dedicated to the indian heritage( may have even been navajo...although my memory of the exact tribe is nonspecific),this guitar really made me think of those areas on first site...it really captures the "feeling" ,to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorn Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Ron - Hope you stop by more often. Lots of people here that could benefit from any knowledge you could share. ← Thanks GregP, I'll try to pipe in as often as I can. You guys are good though, usually by the time I read a thread someone has got it covered...I wouldn't have much to add other than "yeah, what he said" . I'll answer a few questions that were brought up about this guitar: Yes the koa sleeve around the Straploc innards is stabilized and quite strong. If the client uses the rest of the Straplok assembly he will not have any problems, if you uses just a regular strap he'll be in good shape too. I routed for the inlays on the back of the neck with a dremel in a custom made router base. I clamped the neck, fretboard side down, on to the work bench. I then clamped a piece of aluminum angle parallel to the design. This acted as a guide for the dremel base to ride along. The diagonal cuts were made with a sharp X-acto and a machinist's scale. The earliest inlay I did on the back of a neck was a serpent wrapping completely around the neck and fretboard multiple times for Warrior. This was 6 years ago...there has been no problems with movement or protruding inlays during that time. I suspect seasoned lumber and a good sealer is helping. In regards to the inlaid top, the cavity and sides of the top are straight/perpendicular to the back. There is .0025" clearance between them and once the glue is spread....I've got to move lightning fast or that gap swells up quick. A diagram is shown earlier in the thread with a tapered wall. This would work for a flat top, but not for a carved top where there is a rising "slope" in the cutaways to the neck joint. A tapered wall would not retain a seam that remained a consistant distance from the edge in these two areas. I've since AB this with a traditional TonePros aluminum bridge and the koa one. The aluminum is indeed brighter as expected. The wood bridge is warmer like a jazzer. There is tremendous sustain and resonance with both. I think that covered it. Thanks again. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 good stuff,Mr. Thorn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perhellion Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 What exactly is "white rosewood"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorn Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 What exactly is "white rosewood"? ← A bit of a Thorn Forum inside joke hence the quotes around the word white, but basically it is the sapwood of the tree. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 What exactly is "white rosewood"? ← Michael Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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