George Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hi All I must say projectguitar.com is the best site i have ever been on!!! .. most of the examples used were exactly what i wanted to do!!! You may have seen my post on the ibanez forum requesting help but i thought i would ask everyones opinion here.. I live in Brisbane Australia so hi to all from everywhere in the world! I have a Japanese model RG470FM which i love to death well i know there are more higher end guitars out there but as it stands i love the feel shape style everything! .. but what i want is the same guitar but with only 1 humbucker in the bridge .. so i can have an airbrushed graphic on the rest of the body .. and no i dont want to paint the pickup.. some say fill in the pickup routes i dont want (middle and neck) and some say no the wood will move eventually and will crack .. then others say no if its done properly it wont and is much cheaper than other options.. to me i would rather a new replicated body with 1 routed pickup hole at least i will never be wondering whether it will crack one day specially after spending an arm and a leg on the airbrushed artwork! Anyway .. 1 guitar maker here in australia said go get a body from warmoth in the states ..its cheaper and they do it all the time .. but i checked their site and they dont have an exact RG style (they have a jackson soloist shape) with an AANJ. I told the guy what i wanted and he bad mouthed ibanez all the way from their necks to their bodys .. way to go to break my spirit .. wont mention any names .. rather than just listen to what i wanted he raved on and on about i dont know as i tuned out .. others have quoted me the price of an off the shelf ibanez or jackson to completely replicate the body ready for painting .. others have been cheaper and others criticize that their work might not be good! .. I noticed woods can range from AU$88 (basswood) to AU$160 (Alder) and i thought i could give it a crack using the tutorials on this website .. it looks like a lot of work but its not rocket science and yes you can make mistakes but you dont need to be an engineer!! .. so most of the cost people quote me must be labour .. as the woods seem cheap enough.. One guitar maker said if he did it he would need the neck that i wanted (wizard neck from the base RG470) so he can get all the geometry right , angling of neck pocket etc.. now thats what scared me .. if i was to try and do it myself and got it exactly the same as the original body (but only 1 route for the pickup) .. would i get the guitar to stay in tune??? will i have constant tuning problems!! because i havent done something right or something is slightly out!!! .. do you think i will have major problems or can anyone do this with the right guidance (ie.. these tutorials) .. im happy to spend $100 on wood and practice but i dont want to waste my time and money if in the long run its gunna be a guitar that wont stay in tune because "I" built the body .. oh and any advantages or disadvantages on a 1piece blank or 2 piece blank .. which one is better?? any opinions and suggestions .. ??? i appreciate anything .. i will try and check the forum otherwise im at george_b302@hotmail.com Thanks guys and congrats on this website .. oh my god how resourceful and step by step with photos everything is!!! .. George!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Ohhh and just to add .. the guy that was most helpfull was Perry from Ormsby Guitars in Perth .. I can mention that name as its a good comment and i noticed he is on here too!!! .. i wont mention the other names ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) Hey George, Welcome to Project Guitar, Try and only take my response only for what it's worth as I have only just started building myself, but I have done at least 3 months of homework and studying for the project I'm doing, so I have a real good idea of some things but very little experience of others, but I've been playing guitar for 10 years so I know a bit about guitars in general. I myself am doing a RG style body with a neck thats a little bit thicker than most, It's just easier for me to play on a bigger neck. As far as the neck pocket, you will need the neck to get a proper fit and scale, with those things done correctly among a few others you should have no problems with getting it in tune. If you really like the feel of an RG I would attempt to buy a neck for it maybe off ebay or something. The reason being is the feeling you like about the RG is most likely how the neck fits you and building your own is a bit difficult to get exactly how you would want it, it can be done but it is a little harder than building a body. Anyways you will need the neck to rout the body to fit the neck well and to set the distance from the nut to the bridge which is considered the scale of the guitar. I think your is 25.5" scale, so that means it 25.5 inches from the nut to the bridge and that means you must make the neck pocket exactly the right depth to get that distance, otherwise as you've been told it will never tune correctly. And as far as the neck angle, that will depend on your bridge height, the higher the bridge usually means more of an angle, so you can keep the action of the string reasonable. The way to do the angle is usually by angling the neck pocket, so the neck will sit with an angle when placed in the pocket. If it was already done with no angle you can sometimes add a shim to boost the angle. If I were you I would do a crap load of studying and homework on this sites tutorials and forum searches and other sites as well and build your own body, in my opinion it's not worth ruining the guitar you have if you just want to change the pickup layout, not to say it will ruin it but there is a chance and why take it if your could just have another guitar with exactly what you want and still have your RG which you love to play while you build this other one. Plus building guitars is so much fun, but you must understand it is quite an investment. Besides the wood you will need a lot of tools that are specifically for guitar building, which basically means you probably don't already own them. Also the wood is pretty cheap, especially if you have a local source, so you don't have to pay for shipping. I would definately look around well, and see if you can find a hardwood supplier. If not look around a lot of sites for what you want, sometimes different people have different prices, there are a number of people on this site that have wood for sale such as Fryovanni(Rich) and I think guitar frenzy gets some and maybe one or two more. If you like your Rg exactly how it is, use the same wood for your body, but if there is a different sound/feature you want, learn as much as you can about the different woods and pick one that will work for you. Some tend to dent more than others, some don't take a finish well, some sound more warm, or more bright than others and so on, so pick one that suits you. Also you might want to buy a template of an RG so you can have the exact size and shape of the guitar. I didn't want to spend the money on one and I wasn't worried about having it exact, and I made some slight customizations anyways. But since you have the guitar that you are going to build anyways you can try and do what I did and make a template by tracing it on paper or cardboard then use that to make one on some mdf or plywood. But you won't have everything like pickup cavities and electronics cavities and all that stuff. Templates are definately the way to go for a good replica and you will always have it for future work or reference. And they are not that expensive compared to spending a bunch of money on wood that didn't turn out the way you wanted. So those are my opinions. Like I said I haven't been doing this that long, but that is some of what I picked up so far, I learn a lot more everyday. This site is one of the best sites to learn from, it has endless information, all the tutorials which there are a bunch of, are great and the forum has so much info, and there are a number of somewhat professional builders here that have excellent advice and will help you out and there are also a lot of just very experienced hobbyists that have great info as well. So just keep learning as much as you can for a while and if you feel you are up to it building a body, money wise and skills wise, then go for it, it can be so much fun. But if you want to justify buying all the tools needed, I would make a commitment to building more than just this body, maybe have it become a long time hobby of yours, because it can cost quite a bit if you have to buy all the tools needed, but also if you are just going to start with the body, then it will be a little cheaper because you don't need all the tools for the neck, which you could just buy when you started building necks. Good luck, I'm sorry this was so long I guess I just got going, but once more I am new to this so there will be better opinions than this, it's just how I feel, so wait for some more posts to make up your mind. So have fun and do as much research as you can, it will help tremendously I promise. Jason Edited July 11, 2005 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hi Jason Thanks for that and no you didnt go and on .. its good to see people can still take the time typing to help others out .. it does all sound exciting .. and when i think about it .. if i made one and it was good i would probably make more!! .. after the investment for tools (by the way when you say tools are you referring to routers and all that?? i noticed thats all thats really need plus clamps and jigs but other than that??) its just all wood really which is cheap i guess... and when i think how many different custom models i could make to how i want and show that "I" made them .. that would be pretty cool!! .. What i was wanting to do is not destroy my current RG470 as its my baby .. i would source a second hand complete guitar (body condition didnt matter) as this would be cheaper than getting all the different parts i would need (trem, pickups, neck etc..) it would be like a guitar transfusion! .. im just toying with the idea at the moment .. but your right i should get a cheap piece of wood and try and make the body, not as the final result, but for practice and see if i can make the body i want and just for practice before i get the real thing .. that way i would find out what i need and make templates etc.. on the way ... I did a quote on the Jackson website for a jackson guitar with my specs (love them too) and it worked out well lets say i never have seen that sort of money before!!! but seriously im sure its a ultimately quality guitar BUT since ive looked at this website ... did i mention how good it was!!!! .. it looks like a lot of fun to try one myself ...!!! and the satisfaction of "I made it" Anyhooo im off but will check again later for any more discussion Thanks all!!!!! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hey George no worries, I enjoy helping people out and I feel that it is only fair being that only just a short time ago I was asking those questions and people were helping me, so by me helping you it's making this site go round, a cycle if you will. All set in motion by Brian the man that started it all. He really deserves more credit than he gets, I think. A few people especially recently have been saying some not so nice things about this site and the people that run it, good thing they are gone now because of their very poor social skills and attempting to harrass and insult mostly everyone that enjoys this wonderful site. The biggest thing everyone and especially those people I am speaking of need to remember, is noone is keeping you here, it's your choice to be here and if you don't like how it's ran or the people or rules that are in place then leave! Mostly all the members here get along, we all have different opinions which can be the cause of debate, but other than that it's a great help to anyone that builds guitars or would like to build guitars. Anyways thats just a quick update on what this place is like, enjoy it and use it to it's fullest potential, it's a great source of info and experience. Well here's a link to a thread that has a list of Some of the tools you will need. Everyone has variations on what they like and what works for them but there are some essentials that you will need. Look through all the links and pages on that thread, it will give you a good idea of what you might need. Thats a good idea you had about buying a guitar thats used but has all the parts you need, I was going to do that but I am going with a different setup, so I am buying everything seperately because it's all custom like the bridge, pickups, electronics, strap locks and so on. But since you are basically going for a RG, then your idea is perfect for you. So good luck with it and if I come across a used Rg for a good price I'll try and let you know. Again welcome to the forum, enjoy it and ask for help when you need it. Talk to you later! Jason Project Guitar, Tools needed for building Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Using other Ibanez to take off the neck and trem, etc.....is very smart idea. If you're gutting an Ibanez, I might suggest using older RG 5XX (550, 570, etc) or 7XX model for it. The 550 has much better trem compaired to the 470 series. RG 550 can be had for cheap on evil bay. Tons of them around and AANJ models going for in between U$ 300-400, with older non-AANJ going for less. $200-300. If you don't want to go building route, but more assembly route....give Eddie a ring. http://www.ekgguitars.com/index2.htm He can help you out with custom body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Hi Just had a thought ... what about an RG guitar with a scratch plate?? ok ..so its got H - S- H ... now i make or buy a custom scratch plate that has only the one humbucker at the bridge routed/cut out???? that way i get the custom graphic painted on the scratch plate and rest of the body ... reckon that would look silly?? or will that sound weird being that there will be 2 holes under the new scratch plate?? This i assume would be a cheaper option but can anyone see any problems with this idea ... ???? so if i found an old RG550 or RG750 or something one with a scratchplate and sharktooth inlays etc. and get a custom scratchplate made that only has the bridge pickup hole ... ??? Anyone??? Thanks G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 (edited) Ibanez makes RG's with scratch plates already. It looks like a pointy strat with the scratch plate though. Do a google image search for "ibanez rg" and you'll see what I mean. And for the record...knowing about the scratch plate doesn't mean I like ibanezes. Then again I can't say I've ever played one. Edit: oops, didn't realize you already knew some had scratchplates. Anyhow, no, I don't think it would look silly and I don't think the tone would change for any other reason other than you changing the pickups. Edited July 19, 2005 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 hmmm what about this stuff to fill in the pickup holes?? opinions? http://www.minwax.com/products/woodmaint/wood-filler.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekul Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 George, I live not that far from Brisbane, well several hours drive and I love your idea of a one pickup up RG. In fact I have actually made 2 bodies exactly like you are talking about already. I have had them for about 5 months now and am just waiting to get enough cash to get an old RG from E(vil) Bay. I already have a left handed RG with a busted (repaired) neck that I made a H-S-H replacement body for out of Mahogany so those parts are used already. I made my new RG bodies out of local silky oak. I found a huge log that the council left lying around and milled it on a home made chainsaw mill. I now have about another 10 or so 2" thick boards about 600mm long. You are lucky enough to come from Brisbane where silky oak is abundent, not only that, it is the best stuff around. Check out Jacksons and others custom shops from a few years ago and you see that they offered Lacewood as a high priced wood option. Thats just your local silky oak. Of course it is the primo quality stuff, not just stuff left laying around. It is really resonant and easy to work with. If it is quarter sawn the grain looks unreal. I think Carvin offer it, check out their site. As for keeping your RG as is I think that is wise. If you ever want to sell it no-one will give you a good price for a modified Ibanez. Keep it stock, get some silky oak and have a go at building a body. The tutorials on this site are awesome and even though I am only new here this is by far the best site I have ever found for people being genuine, honest and willing to help people out. There is a great culture here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 hmmm what about this stuff to fill in the pickup holes?? opinions? http://www.minwax.com/products/woodmaint/wood-filler.cfm In my humble opinion, filling any large opening with wood filler is a bad idea. I'm afraid it will shrink and mess up my paint job. You'd be much better off cutting small scraps of wood to fit the routs as snugly as possible, glue them in, then fill around them. And here's a word to remember: Bondo. It's easy to work with, cures fast and hard, sands easily, almost no shrinkage. $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggardguy Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 I agree,if your going to fill large cavities put some wood in there and fill it and sand it down flush,then repaint it. Id imagine its fairly similar to the trem cavity fill on the mainpage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hi all!!! You guys are awesome .... sooooo freakin helpfull.. Thanks alot. I will keep that in mind. Im just exploring all my options. Personally i would prefer to make a new body but typical me wants things NOW and i dont have the $$$ so im looking for cheaper options!! .. what sort of wood would i use to fill the cavites? Also to the other response.. silky oak?? is that a light wood ? what sort of sound will that give?? easy to work with? wanna pass one my way so i can practice ? Thanks again G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 hi guys what sort of primer/sealer would i use before painting if i did my own body ?? i mean because its a guitar is it special or its all wood and you can go to your local hardware store and buy wood primer and sealer?? Thanks again .. By discussing with you guys is giving me the confidence to do this my self!!!! that could be dangerous.. like one said .. its an addiction.. you make one then you have to make another and another and argh!!!!!!! .. thats good for me by the way why not have a collection .. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) Do you know what RG's are made from? Something tells me it would be mahogany, but it could be anything I suppose. You could use pretty much anything(wood wise) to fill the holes, within reason: maple, poplar, alder, ash, mahogany, etc... Just remember that some woods need to have their grain filled before any type of finish is applied. For the finish: -if there's any porus wood, fill the pores. you can get that from stewmac and maybe a hardware store. I always order it from stewmac so I've never bothered to look anywhere else. -I don't imagine you have a compressor or paint gun so I would go with aeresol cans if I were you. -First prime the body. If you have an automotive store like autozone or pep boys around, buy your primer, paint, and clear coat from them. Auto grade paints will stand up to the abuse a guitar gets better than furniture grade stuff. -Once you prime it, sand down any imperfections with wet sandpaper to about 800-1200 grit. -Put down your color coat. If there are any imperfections you'll have to sand it down and respray the color coat. You can't clear over a color coat that's been sanded smooth, you'll see the scratches. Make sure to have a few coats of the color on the body. -Put about 5 coats of clear on the body once the color coat has dried for a few hours. Wait for the last coat your sprayed to tack up before spraying on another coat. Let this dry for about a week. -Wet sand the clear coat to about 2k-3k grit with wet sandpaper. Then buff your heart out with a coarse buffing compound, then a medium buffing compound, and finally a fine buffing compound. If you want it to really shine, then wax the whole thing with turtle wax when you're done. There are definitely easier ways to do this. You could use laquer for instance, but using car quality products will give you the best results when it comes to opaque colors or just clear coats in general. Edited July 20, 2005 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Do you know what RG's are made from? Something tells me it would be mahogany, but it could be anything I suppose. To my knowledge they are all made out of plywood.........or was it basswood and some alder......can't remember?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 im pretty sure basswood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekul Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Hi all!!! You guys are awesome .... sooooo freakin helpfull.. Thanks alot. I will keep that in mind. Im just exploring all my options. Personally i would prefer to make a new body but typical me wants things NOW and i dont have the $$$ so im looking for cheaper options!! .. what sort of wood would i use to fill the cavites? Also to the other response.. silky oak?? is that a light wood ? what sort of sound will that give?? easy to work with? wanna pass one my way so i can practice ? Thanks again G ← Silky oak (other countries call it Lacewood) is actually not that heavy, I would say it is a medium weight timber. Definitely not as heavy as mahogany. It seems to give a really bright tone and is probably close to alder as a tone wood. Warmoth offer it, PRS did a limited run with Lacewood tops, Charvel did some production guitars in the mid to late 90s with it. Fender have also done a tele with it. Like I said, Queensland stuff seems best, at least to me. If you get a good piece it looks almost like a snake skin. I go to Brisbane a fair bit to visit relatives so I could bring up a body if you want to look at it some time. Problem is I wont be up there for a few months yet. If you are really bustin to get something quick then fill those pickup cavities. Like the other say, just be careful with what you use. Shrinkage may be a problem. I would fill the holes with some stable hardwood so that it fits pretty snug and then fill the gaps. If you do a tracing of the pickup cavity then use that as a guide it should fit pretty good. I would use a good quality filler too. I could certainly help you out with building a body at some stage in the future. I have an OK home setup to knock bodies out and it only took me a day to get the main wood working done for 2 bodies. I havent put the neck pockets in yet until I make a final decision on what neck to use but if you are careful it is not that difficult. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Hey Thanks for that Basswood is only about AU$70 anyway .. so i might start with this with a friend and see what i come up with... but yeah if you are coming to brissy and its convenient for both yeah show us what you have done .. that would be good. I dont think i will try the pickup cavity fill option as yet .. i really want to try my own body .. Thanks G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiggz Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 (edited) g'day george im in brissy as well (small world innit), if ur looking for any form of wood, head to endeavour timbers in northgate (near toombul), they got alot of... everything really, i picked up enuf honduran mahogany for 2 guitars for about au$50. there is also another place in the same area, but the name escapes me... well endeavour timbers is located there 180 Crockford St Northgate QLD 4013 ph: (07) 3266 2823 for the body, u should make a template out of mdf, and then get a template router bit, and go round it (try carbatech for those) luke *EDIT* just found that other timber place Lazarides Timber Agencies 15 Hurricane St Banyo QLD 4014 ph: (07) 3267 3899 just round the corner from endeavour... literally Edited July 21, 2005 by where's the beef??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Hey !!! THanks bro .. thats only about 20mins from me ... i will go take a look .. how do i ask for it though .. were those offcuts? does the wood need to be "dried" or pretty much off the shelf should do the trick? Thanks again !!! big help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiggz Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 well i went in and told them what i was doin, told them wat i wanted, then a guy took me out to the yard and showed me what they had, it looked good, that guy crunched some numbers gave me a price.... etc the wood was quite dry ( 3 years), as the guy said he wouldnt sell me stuff that was "green". the specific peice of wood i got was dried for 3 yrs, im not sure if thats standard, but if ur not too sure leave it for another 6 months and see if it warps or bows. other than that.... thats about all luke ps oh, almost forgot, they guys at endeavour are irish, and they swear like troopers, quite funny listening to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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