Cooking My Painted Guitar

[!!METAL MATT!!]

Ok Guy's This Is an Idea Im working on Im Thinking A Large Box Almost Like A cubberd with A Bar along The Top and A Larg Swing dore in the Front-----WAIT-----Why Not just Use A A Big Cupboard HAHAHAHA

Now Hear's The Plan Im Going To hang my body from The Bar along the top And Im going To mount Heat lamps In the Bottom Faceing Up Im also Going To Make It so that I can Preheat it and Im going To rig up a thermostat So I can Control My Temp, Im also Thinking about Adding A small exhaust fan to the Top With some Venting that Will lead Outside

So What Do you guy's Think of this Idea? Anything to add?

!!METAL MATT!!

[rhoads56]

Sounds like what i have, except i use the toilet at the factory, and have a heater fan, and a heat lamp. Soon i'll have the room lined with mirror, and an infra red lamp.

[!!METAL MATT!!]

So would You Say That An infra red lamp Would Be The Best Way To go?

!!METAL MATT!!

[ToneMonkey]

Rhodes,

Rather than using mirror, I'd use Mylar. It reflects something like 98% of light and heat and it also comes in rolls so it's good for a flap type door.

It's generally used for indoor horticulture where you need to reflect the maximum light from a sodium lamp. It's cheaper than mirrors and FAR more durable.

[rhoads56]

Rhodes,

Rather than using mirror, I'd use Mylar.  It reflects something like 98% of light and heat and it also comes in rolls so it's good for a flap type door.

It's generally used for indoor horticulture    where you need to reflect the maximum light from a sodium lamp.  It's cheaper than mirrors and FAR more durable.

←

Not cheaper than free

[ToneMonkey]

Nope, probably not

[crafty]

What about using UV-lamps for curing? That way you don't have to heat up the part or the finish that much?

[rhoads56]

actually, i cant remember if it was infra red or UV lamps. Whatever the guy recommended, thats what im getting.

[!!METAL MATT!!]

Hey I was Thinking It might Be Hard To keep the humidity down In the Cook Box And humidity well That Would Be A Problem

Any idea On this Guy's

!!METAL MATT!!

[rhoads56]

For solid bodies, disregard it Matt. I want my heat room to be as hot as i can get it. Ultimately, im striving for 60deg C (140deg F) for the paints i use, but i probably only get to about 40 deg C (100deg F).

But, check to see what your paint supplier thinks.

Edited July 25, 2005 by rhoads56

[thegarehanman]

Do it in an air conditioned room...if you don't mind your house smelling like solvents.

[ToneMonkey]

I'd say that you need to have air flow around the piece too to avoid hotspots. A little oscillating fan would probably be OK.

I think infra red lamps would be wicked for giving the heat in the room (like the lamps they use to keep food warm). UV lights produce virtually no heat so they can be placed right next to the piece (or plant in my experience) to give the maximum amount of lumins to the piece (light intensity is an inverse square law - twice the distance away means a quarter of the intesity, 3 times as far away gives one ninth of the intensity) so providing it's the actual light that you want the you want (and not the heat) this would be a good choice.

I saw an electric patio heater at the weekend, I'll have a search and post a link as it may be handy.

[ToneMonkey]

ahhhh flood control and no edit feature .

Anyway, these ones are FAR more expensive than the cheep (patio umbrella mounted) ones that I saw in the garden centre

http://www.grovelands.com/acatalog/Electri...io_Heaters.html

[!!METAL MATT!!]

For solid bodies, disregard it Matt

So Do you mean I should Not worrie About the humidity? You dont think I'll have Some Piting if there's to much humidity?

I dont know That's Why Im asking

check to see what your paint supplier thinks

You mean The know Nothing NERD at walmart Ya I'll get On that

I'd say that you need to have air flow around the piece too to avoid hotspots. A little oscillating fan would probably be OK.

Hum That may be Hard To Work In! I was Kinda hopeing that My exhaust fan would move Enough air around

!!METAL MATT!!

[tirapop]

Just throwing this out there... not speaking from experience. Some people who make composite parts (fiberglass, graphite), will speed up the cure with heat by putting the part in black plastic (bag or sheet) and leaving it in the sun, tossing it up on the roof. It's summer in the Northern hemisphere and dogs die in hot cars.

So, make a box (maybe folded up out of scavenged sheet metal), paint it barbecue flat black, make vents for the volatiles to escape, cover the vent holes with furnace filter material to keep bugs and dust out. Cheap. Too low tech?

[ToneMonkey]

Matt,

When we were using strong lights, even with the exhaust fan (and ours was a bit of a monster) we still had a big heat spot just below the light. This gets very hot and burnt anything near it - we did have something much more delicate though.

Our light was hung on chains directly over the pieces (so that it was horizontal), we had an exhaust fan/filter mounted at high level and a low level air intake (I think if your curing laquer then a non return valve on the inlet my be a good idea (they're not too expensive).

The oscillating fan that we used, cost about £5. It was a little desk type one with a bull dog type cilp, to connect it to your desk. Easy to mount, inexpensive and worked wonders.

As for the relative humidity, we have a BIG damp problem in the house a the minute (loose tiles and lazy landlord). We paid about £15 for a disposable dehumidifier that we just empty and reuse. I think it's got silica gel (sp? - It's too early) in it so you'd have to check the COSHH sheet to see if it can handle the temperature.

[nollock]

What about using UV-lamps for curing? That way you don't have to heat up the part or the finish that much?

←

I think the point of IR lamps is to heat, so using UV would defeat the point. Some paints are UV curable, but I think that has to be designed into the paint. Normal paints that cure by oxidization and evaporation of solvents would need IR. I am also fairly sure you need good airflow, the less solvents in the air around the guitar the easier it is for them to evaporate off.

just my 2c

chris

[crafty]

Gibson and Fender use UV to cure many different types of finishes, including nitro. The automotive industry also uses UV to cure all of the different types of paint used on modern cars. Just a little less heat involved, you know?

[Sparky]

A paint must be designed for UV curing in order for a UV light to do anything. They have specific photoinitiators that respond to specific wavelengths of light and polymerize (become hard and cure). The UV paints are generally thermally stable and increased heat has little effect on cure time.

If you want a crappy UV lamp, take the glass filter out from your halogen work lamps...just dont blame me if you get a sunburn or skin cancer.

As said before, the best thing for curing would be a hot and DRY environment. I like the idea of infrared lamps and a small fan to increase circulation, but I think some nice work lamps would work fine as well. Definatley do a test run on some scrap wood before you try this thing out.

[!!METAL MATT!!]

Ok Now Someone Over At the Shredder Told Me That

Rustolem type paints are designed to air dry through solvent evaporation and generally would not require the kind of spray-bake treatment you are thinking of

solvent evaporation?

Now will my Cook box work to harden my Paint? If not what Will be the Best way for Me to do this?

How Can I get My Paint Rock Hard?

HELP

!!METAL MATT!!

[n8rofwyo]

How Can I get My Paint Rock Hard?

Leave the guitar in front of the tv during late night programming.

Seriously, I have no idea, but I'll watch with interest in case anyone comes up with something definitive.

Nate Robinson

[borge]

Ok Now Someone Over At the Shredder Told Me That

Rustolem type paints are designed to air dry through solvent evaporation and generally would not require the kind of spray-bake treatment you are thinking of

solvent evaporation?

Now will my Cook box work to harden my Paint? If not what Will be the Best way for Me to do this?

How Can I get My Paint Rock Hard?

HELP

!!METAL MATT!!

←

my basic (and possibly wrong) understanding of paint.

paint=solvent+pigment. (solvent=A substance, usually a liquid, capable of dissolving another substance)

when paint has enough surface area for the solvent to evaporate the pigment

will be left behind and you will have "dry paint"

three factors that affect evaporation

1.surface area; (spread paint will dry faster than an equal volume in a blob because it has a larger surface area)

2.temperature; most solvents evaporate faster with increased temperature eg water("the universal solvent").

3.saturation of surrounding air; a closed tin of paint doesnt dry (much) because the air in the tin becomes saturated with the solvent(cannot hold anymore)

so the air and paint have reached equalibrium and no more "drying" will occur.

whereas an open tin will continue to evaporate till A) it reaches equalibrium with the whole room or B ) the paint drys.

so basically you want to get rid of air with solvent in it as your paint will dry faster.

the conditions for fast drying depends on the solvent in the paint you use.

Note: not all paints work like this.

Edited August 4, 2005 by borge

[mledbetter]

The setups I have seen are IR lamp based, not UV. IR is excellent for curing water borne finishes and according to Myka in another thread works well curing a nitro finish too. Search for that thread, it's back a few months.

I have no idea what UV would accomplish, but I do know blasting paint with UV isn't a great idea.. testing it's color-fastness for the sake of drying it.

The vast majority of the stuff you will paint with cures by evaporation. Some oils and other finishes cure by oxidization, and they would be unaffected by heat - tru-oil for instance.

Back in the thread I mentioned I believe it was Doc that said a lot of cabinet shops use IR light banks to fast cure large pieces. Esp. waterborne stuff that can take forever to evaporate by itself.

[fryovanni]

I wired up a paint line at a cabnet door making factory once. They used UV reactive paint. You would set the door on a conveyor. It went through a finish sander. Then ran the door through a preheat oven. It zipped through a spray booth with 20 some odd spray heads. It went through a second oven. Finally through a UV light oven that looked like a big BBQ. It took about 2 min. for a door to go from start to finish. I was blown away that when it dropped out the end it had a hard totally dry finish. Amazing stuff. I should stop in and see if they would run a couple bodys through the paint line, it would be neat to see if the paint they use is clear enough for guitars.

Peace, Rich

Had a thought. Maybe it would be a good idea to have the body rotate around as it dries. Build a box that uses natural convection (heat lamps with reflective material about the box) to slowly move the air through a filter below and rotate the body around as the warm air is moving upward. This should help fan the solvents away from the body and hopefully require less air moving and decrease the chance of contaminates getting in the paint before it hardens. (just thinkin, might be flawed idea. haven't thought it through).

[HeavnerGuitarWorks]

Ok Now Someone Over At the Shredder Told Me That

Rustolem type paints are designed to air dry through solvent evaporation and generally would not require the kind of spray-bake treatment you are thinking of

solvent evaporation?

Now will my Cook box work to harden my Paint? If not what Will be the Best way for Me to do this?

How Can I get My Paint Rock Hard?

HELP

!!METAL MATT!!

←

I take it that you are planning on cooking the Rustoleum Hammerite Paint on your Brutalizer??? If so, cooking it will do nothing but make the paint wrinkle and peel. Hammerite paint as well as most rattle can paints are not designed to withstand high temps. Heat will do nothing for the hardness of any spray paint unless the paint was designed to be cured with heat which will be clearly stated on the can.

You might want to read this discussion about baking paints at diystompboxes.com. It's pretty interesting stuff and completley true. All you have to do is email Rustoleum.

Hammerite is pretty hard stuff as it is, but then again, being more of a pedal and amp builder I've never used it on wood