Sideways String Angle On Headstock

[Scrappy_Squirrel]

This is not a question about headstock angle but instead I am refering to the left, right, or straight orientation of the strings coming off the nut and going to the tuning pegs. Are there any advantages to the strings coming straight off the nut and to the tuning pegs (PRS style)? I mean, in contrast to Gibson style where the strings come off the nut and angle down and left or right toward the tuning pegs... I would think it might be better for the strings to angle down and straight because it reduces the chance of any binding at the nut...but I'm not sure. Any ideas? I'm in the design phase of my headstock so this will help determine the aesthetic and functional qualities of my headstock.

[mikhailgtrski]

In my experience, the less angle the better. I had a Washburn back in the early 80's that had a couple of extreme angles from the tuner to the nut, and I always had tuning problems due to the string binding at the nut. I tried graphite powder in the slots for awhile, but the only thing that solved it was retrofitting a Floyd Rose locking nut. Same thing with my reverse Explorer neck - it's fine with the locking nut, but a real pain without.

My new PRS-style neck will have the nut-to-tuning post path as straight as I can make it.

Mike

[Cerb]

Not only will they bind, but after a while the strings tend to cut sideways notches in the nut.

[Southpa]

I made two guitars with the exact same scale lengths , hardware and tuner orientation (3/3). One of them has strings set thru the nut ala Gibson (with angled headstock) and the other has the strings straight thru like a Fender strat (stepped down headstock). Strings bend MUCH easier on the guitar with strings going straight thru the nut.

[Scrappy_Squirrel]

I made two guitars with the exact same scale lengths , hardware and tuner orientation (3/3).  One of them has strings set thru the nut ala Gibson (with angled headstock) and the other has the strings straight thru like a Fender strat (stepped down headstock).  Strings bend MUCH easier on the guitar with strings going straight thru the nut.

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If that isn't telling I don't know what is... Looks like I'll be designing for a PRS style peghead. Although, I really like the look of the old style Gibson headstocks over the pointy and practical PRS style. Damn!

[brian d]

If that isn't telling I don't know what is... Looks like I'll be designing for a PRS style peghead.  Although, I really like the look of the old style Gibson headstocks over the pointy and practical PRS style.  Damn!

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Or you can use any shape headstock you like and put steinberg gearless tuners....you can put them anywhere you like on the headstock without worrying about the distance from the edge.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,...ess_Tuners.html

I haven't tried them, but I'm thinking of them for my next project.

Brian.

[Mattia]

Honestly, assuming you cut the nut slots so that they're flat, and only 'bend' at one location (at the leading edge of the nut), and follow the string path straight through elsewhere, it doesn't matter much how everythings angled. Of course, it takes more skill and practice to get the nut slots just right if they're angled sideways as well, but assuming a good nut job (hur hur) it shouldn't 'break' tuning stability. If your nut materials' soft (say, graphite), you may find it wears sideways a bit, but it will also wear the slots themselves deeper, and at the same rate. So when it needs replacing, it'd need replacing anyway is my feeling.

If you cut the nut slots that way (ie, straight line from tuning machine to leading edge of nut) you've only got a single 'kink', or angle in the string, and it's one you'll have anyway if you're building with an angle headstock, or even with a straight pull headstock. You need to downward pressure. Of course, if you go super wide and crazy, you'll be adding a lot more angulation than the, say, 12-15 degree a straight-pull back angled headstock would, and that might get fiddlier.

As for bends, you'll get a different feel with more or less string to either side of the nut and/or bridge (back length, basically; the tension's identicaly, but when you bend a string, assuming no locking malarkey, you stretch the WHOLE string, including the bits not between bridge and nut, so more string = relatiely easier to bend because there's more material to distribute the change in length/tension over. Geddit? Seperate issue entirely to scale length, which is what determines the string tension when tuned to tuned to any given pitch given the same string diameter/construction).

Personally, I prefer a 'straight string' pull look, and it takes guesswork out of angling nut slots, as well as, if designed properly, giving you the same even angle on each of the 6 strings, which gives you a more 'even' feel across the strings, because the angle (although not the string's afterlength) is the same on all 6. Gotta count for something, right?

When all's said and done, design what looks good to you, do a good job with the nut and setup, and you should be fine. Plenty of Gibson LP's out there with rock-solid tuning stability. Personally, I think their headstocks are way too huge, but that's a personal issue I've got ;-)

[Scrappy_Squirrel]

Honestly, assuming you cut the nut slots so that they're flat, and only 'bend' at one location (at the leading edge of the nut), and follow the string path straight through elsewhere, it doesn't matter much how everythings angled. Of course, it takes more skill and practice to get the nut slots just right if they're angled sideways as well, but assuming a good nut job (hur hur) it shouldn't 'break' tuning stability. If your nut materials' soft (say, graphite), you may find it wears sideways a bit, but it will also wear the slots themselves deeper, and at the same rate. So when it needs replacing, it'd need replacing anyway is my feeling.

If you cut the nut slots that way (ie, straight line from tuning machine to leading edge of nut) you've only got a single 'kink', or angle in the string, and it's one you'll have anyway if you're building with an angle headstock, or even with a straight pull headstock. You need to downward pressure. Of course, if you go super wide and crazy, you'll be adding a lot more angulation than the, say, 12-15 degree a straight-pull back angled headstock would, and that might get fiddlier.

As for bends, you'll get a different feel with more or less string to either side of the nut and/or bridge (back length, basically; the tension's identicaly, but when you bend a string, assuming no locking malarkey, you stretch the WHOLE string, including the bits not between bridge and nut, so more string = relatiely easier to bend because there's more material to distribute the change in length/tension over. Geddit? Seperate issue entirely to scale length, which is what determines the string tension when tuned to  tuned to any given pitch given the same string diameter/construction).

Personally, I prefer a 'straight string' pull look, and it takes guesswork out of angling nut slots, as well as, if designed properly, giving you the same even angle on each of the 6 strings, which gives you a more 'even' feel across the strings, because the angle (although not the string's afterlength) is the same on all 6. Gotta count for something, right?

When all's said and done, design what looks good to you, do a good job with the nut and setup, and you should be fine. Plenty of Gibson LP's out there with rock-solid tuning stability. Personally, I think their headstocks are way too huge, but that's a personal issue I've got ;-)

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WOW, great info guys! Thanks a lot Mattia for the technical rundown. It's always good to know why/how things are a particular way. Brian, thanks for the idea on the tuners, I think that's the way I'll end up going! I didn't know those tuners even existed and they're pretty slick lookin' to boot. Have you used them? How stable are they?

~Justin

[brian d]

WOW, great info guys!  Thanks a lot Mattia for the technical rundown.  It's always good to know why/how things are a particular way.  Brian, thanks for the idea on the tuners,  I think that's the way I'll end up going!  I didn't know those tuners even  existed and they're pretty slick lookin' to boot.  Have you used them?  How stable are they?

~Justin

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I haven't used them, but I probably will on my next project. They're a bit pricey, but in terms of stability, they claim to be more stable etc. etc. and that is how they are marketed....not because of the headstock shape issue.

I'd be interested if anyone has any insights into them before I shell out $150! (Gold hardware on the new guitar).

I think they look cool too, as they don't interfere with the line of the headstock, but then they don't look like guitar tuners, which is problem for some.

Regards,

Brian.