Thickness Sander Delta. Urgent!

[Demian]

Hi guys, please I need you (all) tell me If this sander is useful to cut the thicness of raw woods ? ?

Its a DELTA (USA) and its cost only USD350.-

If I buy it I only need a jointer machine than to get my own surfaced and jointed woods??

DELTA SANDER

Thanx

Demian.

[Demian]

Another link (english) of the same tool.

DELTA

[fryovanni]

I believe thats a planer not a sander. It will be too narrow to accept joined bodys or one piece, but you could plane two piece bodys before joining. Not familiar with the model or it's reliability or accuracy.

Peace, Rich

[komodo]

Hello!

First off, it's not a sander but a planer. it uses knives to cut rather than abrasives to sand.

It will thickness wood, but will not ensure that it is flat. A jointer will surface wood and make it flat (and square). But . .a planer is certainly a good tool for doing your rough dimensioning and surfacing of raw stock. I have this planer and it is a very good tool, the best of the small planers IMHO.

If you had a large enough jointer, you could almost say that you didn't need a planer since it would surface AND make the stock flat. But, a common 6" jointer is a chunk of iron, an 8" jointer is a REALLY big hunk of iron and anything larger is just ridiculous! I find my 6" jointer and this planer a nice combo, although an 8" jointer seems a better fit for guitar building since we commonly glue up 6-8" sections for bodies.

You can buy that very planer from Amazon for $350 or less I believe.

Have fun!

KOMODO

Oh yeah, good point Rich . . .i did several body glueups recently and most won't go through the planer even at 13"

Edited August 11, 2005 by komodo

[westhemann]

a planer in good condition and properly set up will flatten as well as a jointer...they are after all the exact same rotating knife working with a flat table...what it won't do is square the sides to a 90 degree angle the way a jointer will.

use a planer to flatten the top and bottom,and a jointer to do the side to be jointed after.

[Demian]

Hello!

First off, it's not a sander but a planer. it uses knives to cut rather than abrasives to sand.

It will thickness wood, but will not ensure that it is flat. A jointer will surface wood and make it flat (and square). But . .a planer is certainly a good tool for doing your rough dimensioning and surfacing of raw stock. I have this planer and it is a very good tool, the best of the small planers IMHO.

If you had a large enough jointer, you could almost say that you didn't need a planer since it would surface AND make the stock flat. But, a common 6" jointer is a chunk of iron, an 8" jointer is a REALLY big hunk of iron and anything larger is just ridiculous! I find my 6" jointer and this planer a nice combo, although an 8" jointer seems a better fit for guitar building since we commonly glue up 6-8" sections for bodies.

You can buy that very planer from Amazon for $350 or less I believe.

Have fun!

KOMODO 

Oh yeah, good point Rich . . .i did several body glueups recently and most won't go through the planer even at 13"

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Yes! my mistake its a Planer!.

But still dont see the diference between this planer, that surface the wood, with a jointer (only for surfaced purposes).

Yes, this planer use knives, and what does a jointer use?

and in that case, If I surface the wood with a planer, then can I sand the wood by hand.??

Thanx,

Demian

[komodo]

a planer in good condition and properly set up will flatten as well as a jointer...they are after all the exact same rotating knife working with a flat table...what it won't do is square the sides to a 90 degree angle the way a jointer will.

  use a planer to flatten the top and bottom,and a jointer to do the side to be jointed after.

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I respectfully disagree. First a jointer has much longer table beds that are set at different heights. Planers have short beds and both at the same height. A planer can surface wood, but it does not typically correct the dimension of the wood, whereas a jointer does. A jointer will take out cup, bow, twist or whatever. A planer can flatten things somewhat, but it's job is thicknessing.

If you run an 8 foot long board with bow through a planer, that board will come out thinner but with the same dimensional defect.

BUT, if you first use a jointer to create a flat surface, flip the board over and THEN run it through a planer the planer IS then creating a flat surface which is also parallel to the opposite "reference" side.

KOMODO

[westhemann]

I respectfully disagree. First a jointer has much longer table beds that are set at different heights. Planers have short beds and both at the same height. A planer can surface wood, but it does not typically correct the dimension of the wood, whereas a jointer does. A jointer will take out cup, bow, twist or whatever. A planer can flatten things somewhat, but it's job is thicknessing.

you misunderstand the purpose of a thickness planer.it will flatten the wood as flat as the feed tray is that brings the wood to it.that is the whole purpose of a thickness planer.you just have to know how to use it.

first off,the tray that comes with most thickness planers in our price range is not large enough to fully support the wood in the sizes we use as they enter and exit the knives...so you MUST enlarge the feed tray.build a perfectly flat tray extension(out of wood would be fine)that is fixed in place at both the front and back of the machine and flush with the machine's own tray.as long as the wood is fully supported the ENTIRE way through the planer,and the knives are set up correctly,then OF COURSE it will perfectly flatten the surface,if you use it properly...you flatten one side,turn it over and flatten the other,then turn it over again and run very shallow passes until that side is perfectly flat,then turn it over again and run shallow passes on the other side...then you use those flat sides as a reference to square the ends on the jointer.

that is how it is done.if you are getting a piece of wood which is still twisted or cupped after you run it through the process,then you are doing it wrong,end of story.disagree if you wish,but that is how it is done

by the way...for guitar building purposes you do not thickness an 8' board...cut it down to the size needed for the guitar,you will have better results because the board will not be being pushed flat from it's own weight

none of us has a jointer big enough to run an 8' board through at guitar widths,so forget about that.if you have access to that then you may be spoiled into thinking that is the only way.

there are ways the big boys in the cabinet indistrry do it,and the way that hobby builders with smaller machines do it...you may actually be forced to use some inginuety combined with a little common sense

and a jointer uses tables at different heights because they are on the same surface as the knives,so they have to be that way,the planer's table is on an opposite side of the wood,so works in a different manner

[komodo]

you misunderstand the purpose of a thickness planer.it will flatten the wood as flat as the feed tray is that brings the wood to it.that is the whole purpose of a thickness planer.you just have to know how to use it.

I understand the tool and how to use it. While this is a guitar forum we were discussing the operation of a planer. When dimensioning wood, most people will surface the stock, and then cut it to length.

by the way...for guitar building purposes you do not thickness an 8' board...cut it down to the size needed for the guitar,you will have better results because the board will not be being pushed flat from it's own weight

Of course, but then there is more than one way to do something. I would venture to say that most people woodworking will surface two sides and then cut to length. To do this accurately you use a jointer on a surface and then plane the other. Otherwise you push the board down as you say, or if the board were flipped over you would merely mirror the other surface which is no good if you board is bowed.

that is how it is done.if you are getting a piece of wood which is still twisted or cupped after you run it through the process,then you are doing it wrong,end of story.disagree if you wish,but that is how it is done

There is more than one way to do things, some more accurate than others. I find your insistance humorous.

none of us has a jointer big enough to run an 8' board through at guitar widths,so forget about that.if you have access to that then you may be spoiled into thinking that is the only way.

Big assumption, why wouldn't anyone have a 12" jonter? Spoiled? Huh? You would use the same operation if you had a 6" jointer or a 12" jointer. I you surface one side with a 12" jointer you would still need to run through a planer to get even thickness. But of course there are manyy other ways to do the same operation.

there are ways the big boys in the cabinet indistrry do it,and the way that hobby builders with smaller machines do it...you may actually be forced to use some inginuety combined with a little common sense

Huh? Now I need common sense? Petulant!

KOMODO

[Demian]

Well ok guys, take it easy!.

I´m newB of course so, you said some things that I´m still dont get it.

What I understood is that if that a planer can surface the top and bottom of the wood, and a jointer align the borders, so then I could joint the two pieces of wood.

If a buy the planer, you tell me that I can surface the top and bottom of the wood but cannot do anything with the borders or ends of them if I havent got a jointer.is thats right?

In other words, If I have only a planer I cannot have a finished wood like stewmac sells??

Last one: how much cost a 6" jointer aprox. Just to have an idea..

Thanxs

Demian.

[westhemann]

Petulant!

yes you are.my post was factual,yours is suppositional.the people on this board DO,in fact,dimension their wood before thicknessing and planing it.i gave you a step by step process on how to do it,but you are stuck on reccomending jointers which are large enough to surface a 13" by 8' piece of stock.why would you do that rather than cut it to lentgh so that it will work with the tools we hobbyists have?the answer is that most of us do it just as i said.we don't have those tools...we don't have a 12" jointer.

and i said if you were forced to use the tools that we hobbyists have room for,you might have to use your common senseand ingenuity to figure out a way to make it happen..are you trying to find an argument or do you truly believe i give a damn about your common sense or lack of it?

try it sometime mr. ihaveeverytoolknowntoman,you will find it works

i very carefully chose my wording to be non confrontational,and you chose to take it that way anyway.get over yourself

care to share pics of your wonderful shop full of tools and all of the guitars you have built with them?

[westhemann]

let me be clear.my original post that put you into attack mode was not argumentative...it was MEANT to enlighten you and others as to how it can be done with less expensive tools that can more easily fit into a hobbyists budget and available working space.i never said my way was better.i only said it could be done my way,and that if the results were unsatisfactory,that would be because it was not done properly.and judging from your first post about the tools you have,you would do well to listen.

by the wayif you took off the safety gaurd on your 6" jointer to surface a 12" area,then you did a bad thing...how else would you fit a large piece of wood across it?or mayber you are just building 2 and 3 piece bodies...that's fine,but the wood i use is regularly too lkarge to put across a 6"jointer

reread my post and you will see that i was being helpful to the members as to a less expensive way to achieve the same results,then YOU threw it back in my face.

[komodo]

but you are stuck on reccomending jointers which are large enough to surface a 13" by 8' piece of stock.why would you do that rather than cut it to lentgh so that it will work with the tools we hobbyists have?the answer is that most of us do it just as i said.we don't have those tools...we don't have a 12" jointer.

I am not recommending a 12" jointer. I am recommending dimensioning stock the way that 99% of the woodworking population does it, by jointing a reference face and then planing to thickness.

I don't own a 12" jointer, I do know someone who does, but even if I jointed one face wether it was 20" long or 8 feet i would still use the planer for the second face.

I just think it's silly to assume what people might or might not have in here. I just saw a guy in here with some HUGE pin router.

and i said if you were forced to use the tools that we hobbyists have room for,you might have to use your common senseand ingenuity to figure out a way to make it happen

I have hobby tools. Cabinet saw, 6" jointer, drill press . . the basic stuff. My original intent was to try to give HELP to a newbie who didn't understand a jointer and planer.

..are you trying to find an argument or do you truly believe i give a damn about your common sense or lack of it?

try it sometime mr. ihaveeverytoolknowntoman,you will find it works

care to share pics of your wonderful shop full of tools and all of the guitars you have built with them?

i very carefully chose my wording to be non confrontational,and you chose to take it that way anyway.get over yourself

     (these are your words from your previous post:)

      "you misunderstand the purpose of a thickness planer"

      "you just have to know how to use it"

      " that is how it is done"

      "then you are doing it wrong,end of story.disagree if you wish,but that is how it is done"

      "by the way...for guitar building purposes you do not thickness an 8' board"

      " none of us has a jointer big enough to run an 8' board through at guitar widths,so forget      about that"

      "you may be spoiled into thinking that is the only way"

      "you may actually be forced to use some inginuety combined with a little common sense"

I find all of these words not very carefully chosen and confrontational. I don't consider them helpful or representative of what a MODERATOR should embody. I don't have every tool (nor did I ever claim to), I do own a planer and jointer and know how to use them. Your previous post WAS confrontational and I found it full of assumptions and condescending. My purpose in these forums is not to look for arguments, quite the contrary, and I refuse to continue with this nonsense.

KOMODO

Edited August 11, 2005 by komodo

[nollock]

You are talking at cross purposes!

Komodo, the planers you are talking about are "surface planers", big machines with fixed tables. Eg...

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=32553&recno=6

What Wes is talking about are somtimes called "planer/jointers" or somtimes just "planers". Smaller machines with adjustable tables. Eg..

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21722&recno=2

In my experience most people consider a "planer" to the machine Wes is refering to. Most often what you will find in a small workshop.

peace

[nollock]

What I understood is that if that a planer can surface the top and bottom of the wood, and a jointer align the borders, so then I could joint the two pieces of wood.

If a buy the planer, you tell me that I can surface the top and bottom of the wood but cannot do anything with the borders or ends of them if I havent got a jointer.is thats right? blink.gif

What you want is somtimes called a "planer", somtimes a "planer/jointer", somtimes maybe just a "jointer". It will surface the wood and joint it. For example..

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=32525&recno=1

So you run the wood through flat to get a perfectly flat surface. Then you run the wood through with the just planed flat surface against the fence, that will give you a square edge. The fence is basicaly a guide, it keeps your wood going through straight, and when needed it can keep it going through square to the blades.

If it has an adjustable table, spinning blades, and a fence it's what you want.

In other words, If I have only a planer I cannot have a finished wood like stewmac sells??

You can't (as far as I know) thickness wood with a planer. If the wood is fatter one edge than it is the other it wont correct that as it just takes a fixed flat depth off.

For thicknessing body blanks i use this router Jig.

I run the router up and down the steel rails so its cuts a fixed height. It's not much fun, it's time consuming, and its probably not very safe. But it works for me

Last one: how much cost a 6" jointer aprox. Just to have an idea..

Thanxs

Demian. cool.gif

[westhemann]

I don't consider them helpful or representative of what a MODERATOR should embody.

yeah.i hear that every time someone is shown to be wrong.it is your last line of defense,as if i can't show you a better way of doing something just because i also happen to be a moderator.

look.think about this for a moment...if you try to flatten an 8' board with a bow in it,you lose more thickness than you would if you cut it to the dimensions you need first...that is a fact.

you SHOULD cut to the size you need first.

I am not recommending a 12" jointer. I am recommending dimensioning stock the way that 99% of the woodworking population does it, by jointing a reference face and then planing to thickness.

you don't know what 99% of the population does.besides,they are the same tool,based on the same principle...you just MUST know how to use them.

i see that i can't help you.you are dead set that your little bit of experience with building your first guitar outweighs everything else you are told

edit let me try one more time.

take your dimensioned wood,run it through the thicknesser with the same side up every time until that side is flat,turn it over...run the other side through(the side you already flattened is the refence point)until it is also flat and perfectly clean of snipe or tearout...use shallow passes,turn it beck over and give the original side a clean up with shallow passes.

now take it to your jointer(i use a 4" jointer)and use the already flattened top and bottom as a 90 degree reference to square the sides...it works perfectly every time

[mledbetter]

To each their own. I dimension, joint, glue up, then plane the whole damn body blank so I know it's perfectly flat on both sides.

I would just as much hesitate to claim I know how 99% of the woodworking population works as I would try to convince the person that knows what 99% of the population does the right way to do things

About that planer, I use that specific planer when I do power-plane and it's a very nice planer. HOWEVER my body sizes are all 12.5 inches wide so I don't have a problem with the width. You can get bed extensions for that planer too.

[fryovanni]

It seems like the important point here is that you need a large enough table. The advantage to a jointer is it has a large table. A thickness sander or planer may come with or need to have a large enough table added to accomodate the material. It can be trick to flatten a bowed, cupped,or twisted piece of wood (even if its 21" long) and not lose excessive amounts of wood. If you try to flatten a twisted board in a thickness planer or sander you will have to try to apply pressure to keep the piece from pivoting on the table as it goes through. A jointer would not have as much trouble with this task. I think it is possible to make either tool do the job. Generally speaking jointers are set up better for trueing up material, but most(that us common folk can afford) are not designed for wide pieces. Thickness planers and sanders are designed for wider pieces, but are generally not designed with long enough tables to flatten across the length of material that has much length(say 18"+). I guess you could say jointers designed for length, thickness planers and sanders for the width.

It is a good point to bring up to guys that are thinking of using a small stock planer to square the length of a body or neck block. They need to be aware that larger tables are going to be needed if they want to use the tool for that purpose. They should also be aware a twisted board will require some special attension even with long tables. Lots of ways to make tools work, even if they need some modifications to get the job done correctly.

Peace, Rich

[Myka Guitars]

(fryovanni, you beat my post by seconds so bear with the redundancy)

All that is required to flatten a board is a set of spinning knives (or an abrasive drum) and a flat table. The length of the table determines how long of a piece of wood you can machine and still expect to get it flat. For the 18-24" pieces that are routinely used for guitar bodies a 13" planer will work just fine as long as you take the small passes that Wes suggests. Take your time and you will have perfectly thicknesses wood.

I think the issue here is that Demian wants to know if this $350 planer will do the trick. Yes it will if you follow the advice Wes gave on how to use it.

To give you some insight into my shop I still do not have a table saw, jointer, or planer. I use a resaw bandsaw and a drum sander for all dimensioning of wood. If I need to flatten something I get out my hand plane then run it through the sander.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Myka Guitars

[westhemann]

I use a resaw bandsaw and a drum sander for all dimensioning of wood.

i wish like hell that i had a resaw bandsaw....that is my dream tool.

[Guitarfrenzy]

I use a resaw bandsaw and a drum sander for all dimensioning of wood.

i wish like hell that i had a resaw bandsaw....that is my dream tool.

←

I hear ya bro... wish I had one also.

[bigdguitars]

rikon 18 at 900 its a steal.

[westhemann]

yeah sure....another $900 is what i need to spend.

[MrSuperflex]

Im currently going to school to get the danish education of "furniture carpending"

The ting i have learned about planers and thickness planers is that you should always plane two sides on a planer whithout pressing the board to the planers surface at all. This is the standard way to get rid of the boards twists and irregularities, and it also gives you a 90 degree angle.

If you dont press the board to the table of the machine, the board will come out perfectly straight. The thickness planer is intended to plane the piece of wood down in thickness, and nothing else. The machine has automatic pressure to the board, wich flattens any warps or twists as long as the pressure is on, but when it is lifted, the board will bend back.

That's what the machine's basicly made for. Ofcourse you can use them in other ways, and if your board is somewhat straight anyway, it wont make a lot of difference if you just use a thickness planer. But you'll have to be really lucky if you get the wood 100% straight after just going throught the thickness planer. Try that, and then try placing the wood on the clean surface of the planer. It wont be 100% flat.