All Right I've Decided

[Hughes]

hipshot 8 string bridge. says it all.

←

an eight string GUITAR not a bass

AND STOP WITH THE STUPID REPLIES GIVING ME NOTHING!

←

i only assumed it was a bass...dont need to get all angry.

I would of said make you self clearer instead of getting mad, but everyone else seemed to understand somehow

Hughes

Edited August 14, 2005 by Hughes

[mledbetter]

allright, so you asked a huge, open ended question requiring someone else to do research, then got snitty when it wasn't handed to you on a platter. Everyone has spoken and you have your assignment. Honestly, i dont know of anyone here who has made a fanned neck. The only reason I know anything at all, albeit not a whole lot, is because i've played several basses and helped a friend research making his own. He gave up, as I said before.

Robert Novak holds the patent. He wants 75 bucks for the right to build it yourself as a licensing fee per instrument. Dingwalls are the only production instrument I know of that utilizes the FF system. A couple of boutique acoustic builders do it. You're going to have a hell of a time finding pickups to fit. as your pups will have to be angled just like the frets to get the same tone across all strings. and you'll have to spend a hell of a lot on individual bridge pieces. about 30-40 a pop times 8.

The consensus is this isn't an easy project and if this is your first build, run, don't walk, as far away from this as you can and build a regular instrument first. Reak all of novak's writing (novax guitars) and you can even pull up his patent and look at specs and stuff, but it's really as simple as laying out fret marks for one scale on one side, and the other scale on the opposite side and connecting the lines. All I'll say about figuring out neck width is use the standard formulas and design the neck taper around the longest scale length. when you're done you jsut trim the bottom to match the fret angle and make a custom nut for the top.

No one is trying to run you off or offend you, but most people here have gotten their knowledge the old fashioned way, by researching and studying.. not saying "i'm new, tell me how to do this" So that line will raise some hackles every single time.

good luck

[Gemleggat]

I second that, you also said in your other post that it could be build for $900, i cant see hoe you are going to do this.

[malebolgia]

hipshot 8 string bridge. says it all.

←

an eight string GUITAR not a bass

AND STOP WITH THE STUPID REPLIES GIVING ME NOTHING!

←

i only assumed it was a bass...dont need to get all angry.

I would of said make you self clearer instead of getting mad, but everyone else seemed to understand somehow

Hughes

←

wasn't getting up set wwith you..

[malebolgia]

look it will cost me less if i dont do fanned frets and use a hip shot bridge. and i'm not trying to be snotty i just want someoone to give me a link or tell me how to calculate the nut width and yeah i wont do fanned frets though i would like to. ansd i already have the neck wood and the pickups plus the body wood its all mahogany and a peice of wenge down the middle of the neck with a purple heart fret board so can someone please tell me or send me a link o0n how to calculate the nut width b/c i've already searched in theis forum for it. thanks malebolgia

EDIT and i;m not being lazy i'm just trying to figure out how to do this and no one is helping me except the people trying to convince me not to do fanned frets.

Edited August 15, 2005 by malebolgia

[Southpa]

No less than 2" across the nut. depends on what bridge (string spacing) you plan to use and how long your scale length will be to a lesser extent. Btw, are femalebolgia's good looking?

Edited August 15, 2005 by Southpa

[malebolgia]

I second that, you also said in your other post that it could be build for $900, i cant see hoe you are going to do this.

←

the bridge- 70 wood -100 (got the body for free) tuning machines-about 100 ferreules-12 fret wire-32 pickups-220 screws-20 electronics-30 other hardware- 40

glue-12 finishing 100(nott even) cavity covers- 12 nut-2 total $756.00 anything i forgot?

[malebolgia]

No less than 2" across the nut.  depends on what bridge (string spacing) you plan to use and how long your scale length will be to a lesser extent.  Btw, are femalebolgia's good looking? 

←

yeah i think i got around 2 1/8 when i measured it ( i took a six string measured it and then a 7 string and then added the difference) but i saw jeremy(from lgm) said it was bigger than that on another 8 string thread.

[i-j-c]

Dude..like I and other have already said...you decide your own nut width...there is no formula as such for doing that..

You simply decide what spacing YOU want at the nut..it really is that simple.

Then simply...DRAW on a piece of paper..a centre line. Mark your string spacing at the bridge...mark YOUR string spacing at the nut...join up the lines..add 5mm or whatever is comfortable either side of the outsid strings...and you have your neck width AT ANY POINT...

It's not rocket science man...YOU decide your string spacing at nut...there is no formula for such a thing...

...you can calculate for neck width...simply using the formula already provided to you...

DUDE..get a pencil and paper and draw it out

[i-j-c]

malebolgia...you've completely lost me..

first you ask what, how etc..when you've already done it...

...just make it so it's comforatable with you...heck if a 2mm string spacing was comfortable...then that's what you use...it's entirely up to YOU...

Good luck...

[Curtis P]

I second that, you also said in your other post that it could be build for $900, i cant see hoe you are going to do this.

←

the bridge- 70 wood -100 (got the body for free) tuning machines-about 100 ferreules-12 fret wire-32 pickups-220 screws-20 electronics-30 other hardware- 40

glue-12 finishing 100(nott even) cavity covers- 12 nut-2 total $756.00 anything i forgot?

←

yea, tools, you will inevitably have to buy some sort of special tool whether it be a router, chisels, router bits (they are exspensive)

you said you were using mahogany with a strip of wenge down the middle, whats going to happen when you "god forbid" the router catches the wood and tears a nice big hunk out? you either need to cap it, or get a new body.

anyways, I am just saying always brace yourself for the worst that can happen

think slow, think carefully, take lots of pictures

Curtis

[Gemleggat]

I second that, you also said in your other post that it could be build for $900, i cant see hoe you are going to do this.

←

the bridge- 70 wood -100 (got the body for free) tuning machines-about 100 ferreules-12 fret wire-32 pickups-220 screws-20 electronics-30 other hardware- 40

glue-12 finishing 100(nott even) cavity covers- 12 nut-2 total $756.00 anything i forgot?

←

Truss rod, router templates, router bits, clamps, glue, straight edges, brad point bits, sandpaper, saws, files, rasps, planes, surforms, scrapers etc. i am assuming you have all these already?

[jmrentis]

yea, tools, you will inevitably have to buy some sort of special tool whether it be a router, chisels, router bits (they are exspensive)

Thats what I was about to say as well. Even a very well equipped shop will need to buy many different and sometimes expensive tools that are exclusively used in luthiery. If you don't own any tools for building you can easily spend money into the thousands just on tools. Then there is maintenence or up keep of the tools, basically keeping them running well, or with fresh sand paper, or sharpened knives and blades. So just the guitar is not even the majority of the money. The thing that costs the most is the tools, and even once you have the tools it will still cost you money to keep it all running well. You'll go through bits and saws and bearings and many things so be prepared to spend double what you initially figure, that way you will be able to pay for things when they come up, and not be stuck waiting to save money to buy a new router or bandsaw or drill press.

And like Curtis said if you chunk your body or neck badly with a router or even drop it on the floor and ruin it you can still afford to buy new wood. So you can bet that it will end up costing you much more than you expect especially being your first. Trust me, I know how it goes, I had my purpleheart body wood, bow on me because I left in the garage when the temp outside was over 100 degrees, and in the garage was probably 120 and there 100 percent humidity for a week or more. So my wood needs to be fixed(or tossed) which will require me to sand it back flat once I feel it's completely dry and safe to, so this will cause me to buy a back plate now to get the thickness I desire, which I wasn't going to do, now thats not much more money but I will now add a veneer to that and binding so you can't tell it seperate pieces, and a few other things that all cost money, and that might not work so I might end up having to buy a new blank. And thats a cheap example, as my body wood was cheap, but if you had nice expensive figured wood that could have been a couple hundred dollar problem. That kind of stuff happens more than you would think, with any kind of building, So be prepared! J

[Gemleggat]

As for string spacing at the bridge. Measure the string spacing on the bridge and subtract 7 or 8mm and that gives you about 3mm-4mm each side of the outside strings, 4mm is better with your bigger strings, this will be the size at the end of the fingerboard. For the nut i would measure a 7 string nut spacing and add 1 more string width to it plus 6-7mm for your string edges. Dont copy the measurement from a 6 string and add 2, this will be probably too wide. The proper way to do this is to draw out a full scale plan. This includes, scale lenght, nut width, bridge width (string spacing) lenght of fretboard. It wont take anymore that 10 mins to draw it and it will answer all your questions. Good luck

[westhemann]

As for string spacing at the bridge. Measure the string spacing on the bridge and subtract 7 or 8mm and that gives you about 3mm-4mm each side of the outside strings, 4mm is better with your bigger strings, this will be the size at the end of the fingerboard. For the nut i would measure a 7 string nut spacing and add 1 more string width to it plus 6-7mm for your string edges.

simple geometry is not taken into effect there.the end of the fretboard is thinner than bridge string spacing- leftover fretboard...it is much more complicated.you also have to factor in nut width and scale lentgh.

plus if you measure the nut width of a 7 string,then add one string spacing,that is all that is needed.you don't add 6 or 7 mm extra,that is already taken into account on the 7 string nut.

but like you said.drawing it out full size is the answer

get what i mean?

[malebolgia]

I second that, you also said in your other post that it could be build for $900, i cant see hoe you are going to do this.

←

the bridge- 70 wood -100 (got the body for free) tuning machines-about 100 ferreules-12 fret wire-32 pickups-220 screws-20 electronics-30 other hardware- 40

glue-12 finishing 100(nott even) cavity covers- 12 nut-2 total $756.00 anything i forgot?

←

Truss rod, router templates, router bits, clamps, glue, straight edges, brad point bits, sandpaper, saws, files, rasps, planes, surforms, scrapers etc. i am assuming you have all these already?

←

yes i forgot the truss rod, but all the the tools are covered, have them already, my uncle is a wood worker and i already said glue!

[malebolgia]

as for the luthier tools i dont count them. i plan on spending upwards of 2gs ontools but thats not how much a guitar costs to make thats just tools. look some personal info- i'm 18 and hope to go to roberto venn school of luthiery so i can do this for a living and all my cash goes toward my hobbies andcollections of musical stuff. may be if you all knew me you wouldn't second guess me.andi'm every good at building things soandi hope for a smooth ride but i'mprepairedthe wood didn't costmuch i think just for the neck(mahogon, purpleheart,wenge)itcost me $ 60 i got a really good deal on wood.

Edited August 15, 2005 by malebolgia

[malebolgia]

Dude..like I and other have already said...you decide your own nut width...there is no formula as such for doing that..

You simply decide what spacing YOU want at the nut..it really is that simple.

Then simply...DRAW on a piece of paper..a centre line. Mark your string spacing at the bridge...mark YOUR string spacing at the nut...join up the lines..add 5mm or whatever is comfortable either side of the outsid strings...and you have your neck width AT ANY POINT...

It's not rocket science man...YOU decide your string spacing at nut...there is no formula for such a thing...

...you can calculate for neck width...simply using the formula already provided to you...

DUDE..get a pencil and paper and draw it out

←

hey i'm new to this so i didnt know there wasn't a formula, lay off and if everyone is anoyed by me asking stupid questions just stop looking at my posts!its that simple, there is no need to come in here and and make fun of my posts just because my intellect isn't as great as yours.

[mledbetter]

This is an excellent article.. especially if you're looking to go to a lutherie school. Someone posted this a while back but i couldn't pull it up in search so i thought i'd post it here.

A Pedagogs Lament, thoughts about a learners impatience

If you don't like being second guessed then a school of lutherie may not be for you. You asked advice and people gave it and if you ask advice and people see other issues you may not have though of yet then they will point it out. You already admited that the fanned fret thing was a bad idea so it's good someone second guessed you.

If you want to learn, then be open to learning. There is little room for ego when you're trying to acquire a skill. You sound more resistant to advice and only want the little bit you asked for and not the large amount that you might need.

You can learn a TON here on this forum through searching and asking, but only if you're open to the information and work to apply it to the knowledge you may already have.

I'm not trying to sound like yoda or anything. lol. i'm still learning a ton myself.

[malebolgia]

This is an excellent article.. especially if you're looking to go to a lutherie school.  Someone posted this a while back but i couldn't pull it up in search so i thought i'd post it here.

A Pedagogs Lament, thoughts about a learners impatience

If you don't like being second guessed then a school of lutherie may not be for you.  You asked advice and people gave it and if you ask advice and people see other issues you may not have though of yet then they will point it out.  You already admited that the fanned fret thing was a bad idea so it's good someone second guessed you.

If you want to learn, then be open to learning.  There is little room for ego when you're trying to acquire a skill.  You sound more resistant to advice and only want the little bit you asked for and not the large amount that you might need. 

You can learn a TON here on this forum through searching and asking, but only if you're open to the information and work to apply it to the knowledge you may already have.

I'm not trying to sound like yoda or anything. lol. i'm still learning a ton myself.

←

thanks i'm i just sick of people coming in tomy postand putting post acting like i'm a dumb***. andsecond guess really wasn't the word i was looking for it was... basicly "make fun of me" b/c i'vebeen threw more than most people will ever go threw

[mledbetter]

nah, people just get frustrated when folks want an answer to something that they could work out themselves. The width thing is very easy. The nut and bridge make a trapezoid, and when centered on a centerline and drawn at full size will give you a drawing that you can literally take your ruler to and find the width anywhere. it's very simple. you'll have to develop those kinds of problem solving skills on your own to do this kind of stuff. There's always some dimension to figure out that you won't find in a book. You have to be able to visualize the thing and determine how to extract the information you need from the model.

To most people, the joy in the building. The engineering of it. To boil it down to a punch list of steps makes it an assembly exercise. The joy is in the "figuring it all out" and whn you get stuck there is a wealth of knowledge here.

[n8rofwyo]

The patience exuding from the forum is absolutely amazing!

If I may partake;

Reading through this thread it seems to me that most of your problem in finding a nut width is that there is no nut width. Literally speaking, "It (nut width) is what is comfortable to your particular taste, dexterity, and playing style". I personaly prefer my strings 3/16's of an inch apart, it helps make up for my inability to put my fingers in the same place twice. There are those of us here that will say that is a ludicris amount of space between strings, and they will be right.

But its my guitar.

Do you see what I mean? I don't think that anyone is being condecending here, it really is just as simple as make it what you want it to be.

Good luck!

Nate Robinson

[malebolgia]

nah, people just get frustrated when folks want an answer to something that they could work out themselves.  The width thing is very easy.  The nut and bridge make a trapezoid, and when centered on a centerline and drawn at full size will give you a drawing that you can literally take your ruler to and find the width anywhere.  it's very simple.  you'll have to develop those kinds of problem solving skills on your own to do this kind of stuff.  There's always some dimension to figure out that you won't find in a book. You have to be able to visualize the thing and determine how to extract the information you need from the model.

To most people, the joy in the building.  The engineering of it.  To boil it down to a punch list of steps makes it an assembly exercise.  The joy is in the "figuring it all out" and whn you get stuck there is a wealth of knowledge here.

←

i agree about the last part its jsut a frustraiting about like allone person had to say was "there is no formula and that your best bet is to measure and add" andthis post would have been a quarter of a page long!

[rhoads56]

so get off your butt and do a plan. Then there would be no need for a thread AT ALL.

No-one can give you the answer. Only you can

[malebolgia]

The patience exuding from the forum is absolutely amazing!

If I may partake;

Reading through this thread it seems to me that most of your problem in finding a nut width is that there is no nut width.  Literally speaking, "It (nut width) is what is comfortable to your particular taste, dexterity, and playing style".  I personaly prefer my strings 3/16's of an inch apart, it helps make up for my inability to put my fingers in the same place twice.  There are those of us here that will say that is a ludicris amount of space between strings, and they will be right.   

But its my guitar.

Do you see what I mean?  I don't think that anyone is being condecending here, it really is just as simple as make it what you want it to be.

Good luck!

Nate Robinson

←

no serioulsy if someone wouldhave said this earlier this would have been so short! insted of ppl saying "figure it out your self" implying that there was a way of figuring it out andbeing snotty thanks thought